Evidence for God from Science

Damnit, OK, this is killing me. I'm alone all the time, I'm depressed, and I'm not even allowed to have another guy because God would probably send my gay ass to hell, meaning I'll be forced to live alone most of my life. What the heck am I supposed to do? >_<;

you have choices.
question is do you love god enough to follow the steps he put in place.
Do you trust him enough to believe that just maybe he knows what is best. Do you care enough to ask him through prayer.

I would suggest you try to find a Christian, former homosexual and get some conselling. I live in Ontario Canada and know of a few because they have been speakers at our church. You need to keep clear that it is a desire, as is any other desire (ie pornography to a married man). The desire must be mastered. A happy and fulfilled life is waiting for you. The path to it may seem difficult but it is there waiting for you. The two that have spoken at our church are both now married, with a family and living a complete and happy life following the road that Christ has laid out for them.

Ray

i kind of know how you feel. being christian is just about the hardest thing. i have been trying to accept that if i get divorced then i cannot remarry. but, you see, that's my fault. this isn't your fault. it's almost unimaginable. like, "who are you guys to tell me what i can and can't do? you're married!" but, i have realized, it isn't them telling us, it's God. i guess we can argue with Him, it won't ever change anything.

but, since homosexuals can't marry really (in many places and according to the bible) it might be possible to live with someone, but not be married. but, could you do that without engaging in any sexual behaviors. almost impossible. not totally, though. for many, i'm sure they've chosen to be alone.

...In Heaven... wrote:I'm alone all the time,

Sounds like you lack normal, healthy relationships with other guys. This seems near universal among those who experience SSA (same-sex attraction). What you probably need is some close relationships with other guys. Not sexual relationships, though. Straight guys would be safest for this reason.

Some believe that the need for social connection with one's own sex is a more fundamental need than anything regarding the opposite sex. When it is lacking, SSA may be a result.

A lack of masculine self-image is also cited as a common cause. Some factors (like peer rejection) tend to cause both.

Do you feel "less masculine" than most of your peers? How does it seem to you that they view your masculinity?

Some people claim to have been able to change their sexual attractions. Here is how they say they did it. Other sources include Exodus, Becoming Real, Probe, and NARTH.

I will mention that these people claim the path to change was quite difficult. It should ultimately be your decision whether you seek change or not. SSA is not itself sinful, only SSB (same-sex behavior). (Though not specifically addressed by the term, SSB is used to refer to sexual behavior in particular. Not to just any behavior among those of the same sex, like playing video games together or something.)

There are also those who question whether ex-gay testimonies are real. The American Psychological Association, for instance, does not believe that sexual orientation can be changed. However, I find their attempts to explain away ex-gay testimonies to be quite lacking. They seem to say that they were all lying, or were and still are bi. In short, it seems that a significant degree of change is possible for at least some people.

I noticed in another post you said you were only 17. Change seems to be especially realistic before people reach their mid-20s or so. There is also the issue that you may be mislabelling yourself at your age. 17 is too young to panic about being permanently and exclusively SSA.

...In Heaven... wrote:I'm depressed,

While on this topic, many ex-gays do say that counseling was helpful. Counseling might not be a bad idea for you.

...In Heaven... wrote:and I'm not even allowed to have another guy because God would probably send my gay ass to hell,

I wouldn't say this would be an automatic hell condemnation (see 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, especially verse 11). However, it would still be a rebellion against God. Hopefully you have an attitude of submission towards God. I'm sure we all struggle with attitudes at times.

So, though your theology seems a bit unsophisticated, it still isn't an option to engage in SSB.

However, as I said, you do need another guy. You need true acceptance and fellowship. Just not a sexual relationship.

...In Heaven... wrote:meaning I'll be forced to live alone most of my life.

Not necessarily.

1.) You might find that change is possible for you, and that you can have a fulfilling heterosexual marriage.
2.) Even if you decide not to attempt change, or if your attempts fail, you can still have fellowship with other guys. Hopefully you can find guys who you can trust and who will accept you.

Thanks for your response Jerick.

Sounds like you lack normal, healthy relationships with other guys. This seems near universal among those who experience SSA (same-sex attraction). What you probably need is some close relationships with other guys. Not sexual relationships, though. Straight guys would be safest for this reason.

This is true, but I'm afraid straight guys might be afraid or hurt me because of my feelings. :\

Some believe that the need for social connection with one's own sex is a more fundamental need than anything regarding the opposite sex. When it is lacking, SSA may be a result.

True... I haven't really even been around another guy for about, probably like, 7 years or more that I've been on my ass, trapped in this bloody house, in front of my PC, except for maybe a few encounters when I've gone out. -_-;

A lack of masculine self-image is also cited as a common cause. Some factors (like peer rejection) tend to cause both.

Do you feel "less masculine" than most of your peers? How does it seem to you that they view your masculinity?

What peers? I don't even have any actual 'peers' or friends in real life, anyway, to know. But the 'masculine' ones seem scary. O_O

Some people claim to have been able to change their sexual attractions. Here is how they say they did it. Other sources include Exodus, Becoming Real, Probe, and NARTH.

I will mention that these people claim the path to change was quite difficult. It should ultimately be your decision whether you seek change or not. SSA is not itself sinful, only SSB (same-sex behavior). (Though not specifically addressed by the term, SSB is used to refer to sexual behavior in particular. Not to just any behavior among those of the same sex, like playing video games together or something.)

I dunno, I'm not really excited or eager to become straight. >:\

There are also those who question whether ex-gay testimonies are real. The American Psychological Association, for instance, does not believe that sexual orientation can be changed. However, I find their attempts to explain away ex-gay testimonies to be quite lacking. They seem to say that they were all lying, or were and still are bi. In short, it seems that a significant degree of change is possible for at least some people.

I've been over it with myself. I know alot of social/psychological things are involved in the whole web of emotion. I know change must be possible somehow. The born with it/Choice theories are total [nonsense].

I noticed in another post you said you were only 17. Change seems to be especially realistic before people reach their mid-20s or so. There is also the issue that you may be mislabelling yourself at your age. 17 is too young to panic about being permanently and exclusively SSA.

No, I've felt strongly about this since I was at least 4.

While on this topic, many ex-gays do say that counseling was helpful. Counseling might not be a bad idea for you.

I might talk to my counselor (other problems...) next time I see him.

I wouldn't say this would be an automatic hell condemnation (see 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, especially verse 11). However, it would still be a rebellion against God. Hopefully you have an attitude of submission towards God. I'm sure we all struggle with attitudes at times.

So, though your theology seems a bit unsophisticated, it still isn't an option to engage in SSB.

True, and I have alot of respect for God, BTW.

However, as I said, you do need another guy. You need true acceptance and fellowship. Just not a sexual relationship.

Dunno where to find that ATM...

1.) You might find that change is possible for you, and that you can have a fulfilling heterosexual marriage.

Boring.

2.) Even if you decide not to attempt change, or if your attempts fail, you can still have fellowship with other guys. Hopefully you can find guys who you can trust and who will accept you.

I've been trying, but thanks anyway.

I sympathise and understand your dilemma. I don't know what bright spark came up with the name of gay for it? There's nothing "gay" about it! Sad would have been a better term. SSA is definitely not chosen and many fight against it within themselves before they reluctantly label themselves as "one of them".

I believe the Bible says that homosexuality is a mental disorder but it is only a sin when it is enacted upon through homosexual acts. So you do have a choice to act on this disorienation or not, personally I recommend to chose not to! Why not just be celibate? God in his amazing grace gave us this real alternative to a heterosexual marriage. Jesus is all the love you will ever need, he will fill the void of not having a partner!

As for the straight dudes, I think most are pretty relaxed and enlightened about this sort of thing nowadays, sure there is the odd screaming lunatic (usually a closet case imo lol) but they are becoming less and less common, praise God. And it does sound like you have depression, this a common side effect from SSA. Dealing with being different and the [poop] society dumps on you for it (or the perception that this is how society is, things are often not as bad as we perceive) is not easy.

Homosexuality is a particulary viscious mental disorder, as if it wasn't bad enough it festers all these other mental health problems, (not to mention the physical health problems that can occur when this disorder is enacted upon), at least you can get treatment for those if not the same sex attraction disorder so much itself. I really wish the APA would take this illness seriously and be searching for a cure but apparently theyve decided that challenge is far too difficult and they would rather just declare this problem normal and wash their secular hands of it.

...In Heaven... wrote:This is true, but I'm afraid straight guys might be afraid or hurt me because of my feelings. :\

That seems to be reported quite frequently. PeopleCanChange calls it "heterophobia".

I have to say from going to a public high school that this would likely be an issue with many guys. You can tell from the jokes and such...

You would probably have the best luck with Christians who are mature in their faith and who seem to refrain from "hypocritical judgmentalism", as I mentioned in another post.

...In Heaven... wrote:I haven't really even been around another guy for about, probably like, 7 years or more that I've been on my ass, trapped in this bloody house, in front of my PC, except for maybe a few encounters when I've gone out. -_-;

Sounds like it could be a very major factor in the development of your SSA.

...In Heaven... wrote:What peers? I don't even have any actual 'peers' or friends in real life, anyway, to know. But the 'masculine' ones seem scary. O_O

See above.

...In Heaven... wrote:I dunno, I'm not really excited or eager to become straight. >:\

As I said, it is ultimately up to you whether you seek change or not. It doesn't seem too many people change without being motivated to change.

However, if I were you I would at least deal with the issues like the lack of friends. This may or may not bring about change.

...In Heaven... wrote:I've been over it with myself. I know alot of social/psychological things are involved in the whole web of emotion. I know change must be possible somehow.

I would agree here.

...In Heaven... wrote:The born with it/Choice theories are total nonsense.

100% agree.

...In Heaven... wrote:No, I've felt strongly about this since I was at least 4.

4 is much too young to have a developed sexual orientation. The core issues do seem to develop that early, however.

...In Heaven... wrote:I might talk to my counselor (other problems...) next time I see him.

I do usually see NARTH cited as the source for counselors who are familiar with treating SSA.

...In Heaven... wrote:True, and I have alot of respect for God, BTW.

Excellent!

...In Heaven... wrote:Dunno where to find that ATM...

You might have good luck at a church. Get involved with the youth group, and see how the people there are. You might need to try out several different churches before you find one that fits.

Are you home schooled? Most people do have peers at school...

Also, you might find some good fellowship at college when you go. InterVarsity Christian Fellowship and similar groups often meet at state schools. Most small Christian schools are also known for their fellowship. Taylor, where I will be attending, is especially known for the community. I'm sure there are plenty of other good ones, as well.

Becoming Real does have an article about telling. It might be applicable when it comes to choosing friends you can tell about this.

...In Heaven... wrote:

1.) You might find that change is possible for you, and that you can have a fulfilling heterosexual marriage.

Boring.

Just as long as you realize that your options are this and celibacy, you are fine. Celibacy is a perfectly respectable choice. In fact, it is the preferred option for those who can handle it, according to 1 Corinthians 7.

...In Heaven... wrote:I've been trying, but thanks anyway.

Frankly, I'm not surprised that someone who says, "What peers? I don't even have any actual 'peers' or friends in real life," hasn't changed yet.

Perhaps, one should start examining what makes oneself guilty...

If you want to be homosexual then be homosexual. There is nothing wrong or shameful with it those who say there is are just close minded.

If you want to be homosexual, be homosexual. Maybe you don't need to feel ashamed about it, but it is wrong. Anyone who says otherwise is narrow minded.

20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Hello. Now that you've heard from all those people above, maybe it'll help for you to hear from someone who's actually been there, and who still occasionally struggles with it. Hey! Why are you looking at jerickson? I'm talking about me, doofus!

My story's kind of similar to yours. I can see certain tendencies looking back as early as age 6. Who I played with. Who rejected me most. Stuff like that. Growing up, I preferred to play house and didn't really like sports, so for the longest time I was rejected by my peers. By age 9 I was diagnosed with major depression. And when puberty hit in my 10th year, these tendencies gave way to fullblown SSA. I eventually made a few good guy friends during my 11th year, but it was too late -- the damage had been done. And I moved away shortly after turning 12, and at the schools I attended later the rejection from my male peers was worse than ever.

I'm kind of weird in that I never had any doubts about the reality of God and Jesus. And while I tried to convince myself, I was never successful in convincing myself that homosexuality was okay. Shortly after turning 24, I found out some things that brought me to my knees(finally got through my stubbornness and pride, thank God), and I called out to Jesus and was saved. You can read the whole story in "Christian Testimonies - Share Yours" in the Christian Chit-Chat section of this forum.

I knew immediately that some things had to change. The homosexuality issue had been on my heart for some time, and it was one of my first big convictions. Don't let anybody fool you, though. This kind of change is hard, and it takes work. You have to take active steps in order to fix the things that are wrong in your life.

You mentioned having few friends and sitting at home a lot. That has to change, and you have to be active. Someone else suggested church, and for a Christian that really is the best place to start. Many churches have programs targetted towards people of certain age groups, and some even have bulletins and websites where you can keep up on local events that you might like to attend. I'd also suggest joining a gym. If you sit around a lot, you've got to be sluggish and lacking energy. While you can also meet people at a gym, the main point is to get you in shape, and get you some energy! You'll feel better physically, mentally, and emotionally, and it will make a world of difference.

All of this is basically preparation for making some close guy friends. If you really want this SSA thing to change, you have to foster healthy relationships with other guys. This is also a period of discovery. As someone who's had no close guy friends, you're going to be learning a lot about what makes healthy, nonsexual guy relationships click. And it's going to be awkward. As someone who's begun doing this, let me tell you -- when you have a few healthy guy relationships, you'll realize that the sexual relationships you used to want are nothing but a cheap imitation of the kind of relationships you actually need.

There's also certain things to be wary of. For me, personally, it's being alone too much. My new friends are awesome, but sometimes it takes me out of my comfort zone and it's so easy for me to retreat into "hermit mode" for a few weeks or so. And that's exactly the kind of thing I need to avoid because that's when things start looking dark and it's so easy to get back into old habits again. It's much better for me to stick it out, learn from what's going on, and expand my comfort zone. (No, this doesn't mean I don't have any alone time. I have plenty of that; I just make sure not to get carried away with it and neglect my friends.)

Then there's the girl issue, if you do someday want to get married and have children and all that. Again, it's all about fostering proper relationships. One thing that helped me was learning some of the techniques of successful daters. Knowing how to act in a dating situation can be useful, but that's not the main point in doing this. The point is to learn more about girls and what makes them different from us. I learned a couple things(such as being comfortable enough to tease them and to not be clingy) that help immensely even in "just friends" relationships. So learning about girls is a great thing to do even if you never plan on dating/marrying one of them.

That's really about all for now. Good luck with the struggle. It's not easy, but it's worth it.

In Heaven

I'm gay, and I'm currently in a loving relationship with another guy. It's not all peaches, but the bad times more than make up for the good.

I would advise you to talk about your problem to people of your faith, different denominations of your faith, other faiths and no faith. Then I would advise you to pray hard, really, really hard. No one on Earth can do more than advise you, but God can tell you what's right.

Then follow your conscience. Isn't that how God tells us what to do?

Hope this helps.

under_milk_wood wrote:In Heaven

I'm gay, and I'm currently in a loving relationship with another guy. It's not all peaches, but the bad times more than make up for the good.

I would advise you to talk about your problem to people of your faith, different denominations of your faith, other faiths and no faith. Then I would advise you to pray hard, really, really hard. No one on Earth can do more than advise you, but God can tell you what's right.

Then follow your conscience. Isn't that how God tells us what to do?

Hope this helps.

Following our conscience is not necessarily how God tells us what to do. He reveals things in His Word and if our conscience tells us to do something that His Word says not to ...... Guess which one is right? Truth is not a personal decision. Truth is not reletive.

We certainly do have to work things out however and interacting with others, getting good counsel and learning how to get from where we are into accordance with His Word is a journey.