Evidence for God from Science

The temperature of Heaven can be rather accurately computed. Our authority is Isaiah 30:26,

"Moreover, the light of the Moon shall
be as the light of the Sun and the light
of the Sun shall be sevenfold, as the
light of seven days."

Thus Heaven receives from the Moon as much radiation as we do from the Sun, and in addition 7*7 (49) times as much as the Earth does from the Sun, or 50 times in all. The light we receive from the Moon is one 1/10,000 of the light we receive from the Sun, so we can ignore that ... The radiation falling on Heaven will heat it to the point where i.e., Heaven loses 50 times as much heat as the Earth by radiation. Using the Stefan-Boltzmann
law for radiation, (H/E) temperature of the earth (-300K), gives H as 798K (525C). The exact temperature of Hell cannot be computed ...

[However] Revelations 21:8 says

"But the fearful, and unbelieving ... shall
have their part in the lake which burneth
with fire and brimstone."

A lake of molten brimstone means that its temperature must be at or below the boiling point, 444.6C. We have, then, that Heaven, at 525C is hotter than Hell at 445C.
http://www.atheistalliance.org/aaw/Heav ... ature.html

[This message has been edited by heidegger (edited 08-23-2005).]

SOURCE: http://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum15/HTML/004520.html

This links to this:

The human soul. It is invisible. Undetectable by any human means. We now have technology that includes X-rays, CAT-scans, MRI, ultrasound, oscilloscopes, infrared photography, spectrometers, colorimeters, pyrheliometers -- we have “meters” out the wazoo. All these and more augment our own human senses: sight, hearing, touch, smell and taste. Still, the thing is imperceptible and thoroughly invisible. But the majority of the human population nevertheless is convinced that it exists. They believe there is such a thing as the human “soul.”

The desire for a “soul” is easy to understand. We know that our bodies die and decompose, just like all other animals. But we don't want to be just like all other animals. Who wants to stay dead? Surely we are far more important than other animals. Surely we are connected somehow to the eternal Cosmos. Surely we have a “soul.”

It is one huge philosophical leap to go from wanting something to stating categorically that the something exists. With zero proof, how did we end up doing that very thing in so many cultures in so many eras? That's fairly easy to answer. Ego. The human ego knows few bounds. My, we're important!

I think the Great Flood is a myth. This is primarily because I have some serious concerns about the plausibility of such an event and the complete lack of any reliable scientific evidence to back up this story. I decided I'd ask totse a few questions about this event.

Actually, before delving into this issue I'd like to clarify something. The Bible states in Genesis 7:12 that it did in fact rain for 40 days and 40 nights. Some scholars suggest that the at the end of the last "ice age" (technical term: glaciation, we're still in an ice age) sea levels rose, causing the inundation of what we now call the Black Sea. I dismiss this as unbiblical simply because it is not the type of flood described by Genesis 7:12. Either it rained for 40 days and forty nights, or God is rather incompetent and can't properly describe his own flood.

With that said, let's get down to business.

1: There isn't enough water on Earth for such a flood to have ever taken place. I doubt there is enough hydrogen on the surface for it to have ever taken place. However, God is omniscient and could have magically created/removed the water for this flood to have taken place. I can see the motive behind that.

Please don't try to bring up arguments that claim that the water naturally rose up out of the earth, or the earth was super humid or anything like that. You've been warned.

2: Ice Caps
So, apparently the entire world was covered in water. Everything was covered, sans Noah's ark. This includes the ice caps. Here's the problem. Ice caps and glaciers tend to keep really good historical records. The problem is, there is absolutely no evidence for a flood in these ice caps. No ice cap or glacier has shown any evidence of a global flood, such as the one described by Genesis, taking place. It is fairly easy to prove that these records go back at least 40,000 years using a number of methods (see http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/icecores.html). As there is no evidence in the ice caps of a great flood ever occurring, I remain rather skeptical. I'd like to see some of this evidence (or a convincing reason why there shouldn't be any evidence) before believing that Noah and his ark really existed.

3: No Scientific evidence whatsoever
This is basically an extension of #2. For me to believe in a global flood I'm going to need some scientific evidence. Present it to me and I'll look over it and give you my opinion on it.

4: Animals
How many animals do you guys believe were on the ark? I just want a number, for now.

5: Logistics
First of all, all the animals would have had to eat. Food would have had to be brought aboard (although Genesis conveniently fails to mention this). Some animals, such as the koala, need specialized types of food. The bible makes no mention of this. Also, how did a pair of koalas get from Australia to Asia? In fact, there are thousands of animals that are geographically isolated. The bible would have us believe that they left their homes, made an intercontinental journey, boarded noah's ark, waited the flood out, and returned to their island. Why should I believe such patent nonsense?

6: Plants
Many plants cannot survive underwater. Granted, I suppose the seeds could, so I'm not saying that plants should be extinct. However, there would be very little living vegetation for the survivors of the flood to eat. So, uh, what did the survivors of the flood eat? What about the carnivores? I should probably sort that out before believing this story.

7: Coexistence
Um, many of the animals on the ark are natural predators/prey. Explain to me why none of the animals on Noah's ark got eaten.

8: The Ark
I want to know how Noah built this ark. He had only stone age tools. As far as I can tell, the bible basically says he built this 450 foot ark with logs and pitch (and probably rope, but that isn't mentioned explicitly). Even with modern technology, we cannot build wooden ships longer than 300 feet, and when we do, they are braced with steel and must be pumped constantly to avoid sinking (source: talkorigins). So, before getting exploring a possible labor/resource shortage, I want to get a basic idea of how this ark would have been built.

9: Fossils
This isn't biblical, but many christians like to claim that fossils and many types of rock were deposited by the flood. Does anyone here actually believe this?

I've omitted a ton of what I wrote, simply so I could ask you guys some basic questions and get your side of the story, rather than make a bunch of assumptions. Any answers to these questions are greatly appreciated.

SOURCE: http://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum15/HTML/004526.html

I have been read "Revolt Against The Modern World" by Julius Evola and have changed a lot of my ideas about religion and god. I personally am a very logical and atheist person, I laugh at those of the christian faith and other such jewish inspired religions. However, after reading Evola I think some aspects of the older religions like Zorasoastrianism (sp?) and Horacism had much merit to it.

Anyway to the point. Evola points out that prior to the introduction of the modern world, all laws had to be passed by priests or druids, rather than by regular people. People believed the only laws worth following were those passed down from god, and the ones that weren't passed down for god were ignored and laughed at.

Now to my conclusion: Do you think religions, such as christianity, are exploited by governments in order to keep people following the rules? In Nazi Germany for example, the high ranking officials were all atheist for the most part, while the masses of people were christian/religious.

SOURCE: http://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum15/HTML/004458.html

Deborah wrote:Brian don't waste your time.
Our LORD god does not require you to defend him.
Spend this time learning about him instead.
There is much for you to learn.