Allah - the Moon God

[Deborah]

Allah - the Moon God

The Archeology of The Middle East
The religion of Islam has as its focus of worship a deity by the name of "Allah." The Muslims claim that Allah in pre-Islamic times was the biblical God of the Patriarchs, prophets, and apostles. The issue is thus one of continuity. Was "Allah" the biblical God or a pagan god in Arabia during pre-Islamic times? The Muslim's claim of continuity is essential to their attempt to convert Jews and Christians for if "Allah" is part of the flow of divine revelation in Scripture, then it is the next step in biblical religion. Thus we should all become Muslims. But, on the other hand, if Allah was a pre-Islamic pagan deity, then its core claim is refuted. Religious claims often fall before the results of hard sciences such as archeology. We can endlessly speculate about the past or go and dig it up and see what the evidence reveals. This is the only way to find out the truth concerning the origins of Allah. As we shall see, the hard evidence demonstrates that the god Allah was a pagan deity. In fact, he was the Moon-god who was married to the sun goddess and the stars were his daughters.



See The reader must know that Ismael was a Hebrew.

Archaeologists have uncovered temples to the Moon-god throughout the Middle East. From the mountains of Turkey to the banks of the Nile, the most wide-spread religion of the ancient world was the worship of the Moon-god. In the first literate civilization, the Sumerians have left us thousands of clay tablets in which they described their religious beliefs. As demonstrated by Sjoberg and Hall, the ancient Sumerians worshipped a Moon-god who was called many different names. The most popular names were Nanna, Suen and Asimbabbar. His symbol was the crescent moon. Given the amount of artifacts concerning the worship of this Moon-god, it is clear that this was the dominant religion in Sumeria. The cult of the Moon-god was the most popular religion throughout ancient Mesopotamia. The Assyrians, Babylonians, and the Akkadians took the word Suen and transformed it into the word Sin as their favorite name for the Moon-god. As Prof. Potts pointed out, "Sin is a name essentially Sumerian in origin which had been borrowed by the Semites."

In ancient Syria and Canna, the Moon-god Sin was usually represented by the moon in its crescent phase. At times the full moon was placed inside the crescent moon to emphasize all the phases of the moon. The sun-goddess was the wife of Sin and the stars were their daughters. For example, Istar was a daughter of Sin. Sacrifices to the Moon-god are described in the Pas Shamra texts. In the Ugaritic texts, the Moon-god was sometimes called Kusuh. In Persia, as well as in Egypt, the Moon-god is depicted on wall murals and on the heads of statues. He was the Judge of men and gods. The Old Testament constantly rebuked the worship of the Moon-god (see: Deut. 4:19;17:3; II Kngs. 21:3,5; 23:5; Jer. 8:2; 19:13; Zeph. 1:5, etc.) When Israel fell into idolatry, it was usually the cult of the Moon-god. As a matter of fact, everywhere in the ancient world, the symbol of the crescent moon can be found on seal impressions, steles, pottery, amulets, clay tablets, cylinders, weights, earrings, necklaces, wall murals, etc. In Tell-el-Obeid, a copper calf was found with a crescent moon on its forehead. An idol with the body of a bull and the head of man has a crescent moon inlaid on its forehead with shells. In Ur, the Stela of Ur-Nammu has the crescent symbol placed at the top of the register of gods because the Moon-god was the head of the gods. Even bread was baked in the form of a crescent as an act of devotion to the Moon-god. The Ur of the Chaldees was so devoted to the Moon-god that it was sometimes called Nannar in tablets from that time period.

A temple of the Moon-god has been excavated in Ur by Sir Leonard Woolley. He dug up many examples of moon worship in Ur and these are displayed in the British Museum to this day. Harran was likewise noted for its devotion to the Moon-god. In the 1950's a major temple to the Moon-god was excavated at Hazer in Palestine. Two idols of the moon god were found. Each was a stature of a man sitting upon a throne with a crescent moon carved on his chest . The accompanying inscriptions make it clear that these were idols of the Moon-god. Several smaller statues were also found which were identified by their inscriptions as the "daughters" of the Moon-god. What about Arabia? As pointed out by Prof. Coon, "Muslims are notoriously loath to preserve traditions of earlier paganism and like to garble what pre-Islamic history they permit to survive in anachronistic terms."

During the nineteenth century, Amaud, Halevy and Glaser went to Southern Arabia and dug up thousands of Sabean, Minaean, and Qatabanian inscriptions which were subsequently translated. In the 1940's, the archeologists G. Caton Thompson and Carleton S. Coon made some amazing discoveries in Arabia. During the 1950's, Wendell Phillips, W.F. Albright, Richard Bower and others excavated sites at Qataban, Timna, and Marib (the ancient capital of Sheba). Thousands of inscriptions from walls and rocks in Northern Arabia have also been collected. Reliefs and votive bowls used in worship of the "daughters of Allah" have also been discovered. The three daughters, al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat are sometimes depicted together with Allah the Moon-god represented by a crescent moon above them. The archeological evidence demonstrates that the dominant religion of Arabia was the cult of the Moon-god.

In Old Testament times, Nabonidus (555-539 BC), the last king of Babylon, built Tayma, Arabia as a center of Moon-god worship. Segall stated, "South Arabia's stellar religion has always been dominated by the Moon-god in various variations." Many scholars have also noticed that the Moon-god's name "Sin" is a part of such Arabic words as "Sinai," the "wilderness of Sin," etc. When the popularity of the Moon-god waned elsewhere, the Arabs remained true to their conviction that the Moon-god was the greatest of all gods. While they worshipped 360 gods at the Kabah in Mecca, the Moon-god was the chief deity. Mecca was in fact built as a shrine for the Moon-god.

This is what made it the most sacred site of Arabian paganism. In 1944, G. Caton Thompson revealed in her book, The Tombs and Moon Temple of Hureidha, that she had uncovered a temple of the Moon-god in southern Arabia. The symbols of the crescent moon and no less than twenty-one inscriptions with the name Sin were found in this temple. An idol which may be the Moon-god himself was also discovered. This was later confirmed by other well-known archeologists.

The evidence reveals that the temple of the Moon-god was active even in the Christian era. Evidence gathered from both North and South Arabia demonstrate that Moon-god worship was clearly active even in Muhammad's day and was still the dominant cult. According to numerous inscriptions, while the name of the Moon-god was Sin, his title was al-ilah, i.e. "the deity," meaning that he was the chief or high god among the gods. As Coon pointed out, "The god Il or Ilah was originally a phase of the Moon God." The Moon-god was called al-ilah, i.e. the god, which was shortened to Allah in pre-Islamic times. The pagan Arabs even used Allah in the names they gave to their children. For example, both Muhammad's father and uncle had Allah as part of their names.

The fact that they were given such names by their pagan parents proves that Allah was the title for the Moon-god even in Muhammad's day. Prof. Coon goes on to say, "Similarly, under Mohammed's tutelage, the relatively anonymous Ilah, became Al-Ilah, The God, or Allah, the Supreme Being."

This fact answers the questions, "Why is Allah never defined in the Qur'an? Why did Muhammad assume that the pagan Arabs already knew who Allah was?" Muhammad was raised in the religion of the Moon-god Allah. But he went one step further than his fellow pagan Arabs. While they believed that Allah, i.e. the Moon-god, was the greatest of all gods and the supreme deity in a pantheon of deities, Muhammad decided that Allah was not only the greatest god but the only god.

In effect he said, "Look, you already believe that the Moon-god Allah is the greatest of all gods. All I want you to do is to accept that the idea that he is the only god. I am not taking away the Allah you already worship. I am only taking away his wife and his daughters and all the other gods." This is seen from the fact that the first point of the Muslim creed is not, "Allah is great" but "Allah is the greatest," i.e., he is the greatest among the gods. Why would Muhammad say that Allah is the "greatest" except in a polytheistic context? The Arabic word is used to contrast the greater from the lesser. That this is true is seen from the fact that the pagan Arabs never accused Muhammad of preaching a different Allah than the one they already worshipped. This "Allah" was the Moon-god according to the archeological evidence. Muhammad thus attempted to have it both ways. To the pagans, he said that he still believed in the Moon-god Allah. To the Jews and the Christians, he said that Allah was their God too. But both the Jews and the Christians knew better and that is why they rejected his god Allah as a false god.

Al-Kindi, one of the early Christian apologists against Islam, pointed out that Islam and its god Allah did not come from the Bible but from the paganism of the Sabeans. They did not worship the God of the Bible but the Moon-god and his daughters al-Uzza, al-Lat and Manat. Dr. Newman concludes his study of the early Christian-Muslim debates by stating, "Islam proved itself to be...a separate and antagonistic religion which had sprung up from idolatry." Islamic scholar Caesar Farah concluded "There is no reason, therefore, to accept the idea that Allah passed to the Muslims from the Christians and Jews." The Arabs worshipped the Moon-god as a supreme deity. But this was not biblical monotheism. While the Moon-god was greater than all other gods and goddesses, this was still a polytheistic pantheon of deities. Now that we have the actual idols of the Moon-god, it is no longer possible to avoid the fact that Allah was a pagan god in pre-Islamic times. Is it any wonder then that the symbol of Islam is the crescent moon? That a crescent moon sits on top of their mosques and minarets? That a crescent moon is found on the flags of Islamic nations? That the Muslims fast during the month which begins and ends with the appearance of the crescent moon in the sky?

CONCLUSION
The pagan Arabs worshipped the Moon-god Allah by praying toward Mecca several times a day; making a pilgrimage to Mecca; running around the temple of the Moon-god called the Kabah; kissing the black stone; killing an animal in sacrifice to the Moon-god; throwing stones at the devil; fasting for the month which begins and ends with the crescent moon; giving alms to the poor, etc.

The Muslim's claim that Allah is the God of the Bible and that Islam arose from the religion of the prophets and apostles is refuted by solid, overwhelming archeological evidence. Islam is nothing more than a revival of the ancient Moon-god cult. It has taken the symbols, the rites, the ceremonies, and even the name of its god from the ancient pagan religion of the Moon-god. As such, it is sheer idolatry and must be rejected by all those who follow the Torah and Gospel. moongod.htm

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

[Believer]

You forgot to add this with the article Deborah:

[Judah]

Deborah, you have come up with a very interesting piece of information there.

I think there needs to be some clarification regarding the use of the word "Allah". We need to take care what it is we are talking about... just the name Allah, or the original pantheistic god Allah, or Allah the God of Islam (allowing for any difference between the last two).

In pre-Islamic times "Allah" was certainly the name used to refer to the most important of a number of gods. Allah of those times was a supreme god.

The name "Allah" is a semitic name sharing the same etymology as "El", "Eloah", and "Elohim", all of which are biblical names of God. "Allah" is simply the Arabic word for "God".

As it happens, most Christians of Arab background refer to our Creator God, Father of Jesus Christ, as Allah. While this isn't an argument in itself for the validity of this name being ascribed to the Triune God, it is a fact of life. So arguably "Allah" is a thoroughly appropriate name for Arabic-speaking Christians to use, and one might possibly argue that this is more appropriate than our own Anglo-Saxon term "God" (which is, after all, a word of pagan derivation).

The issue is thus one of continuity. Was "Allah" the biblical God or a pagan god in Arabia during pre-Islamic times?

Yes, this is an important issue.

As I understand it, Muhammad used the word "Allah", having carefully expunged it from its pantheistic attachments (the 3 daughter goddesses plus other co-existing gods) to refer to the Judeo-Christian God which he adopted as the foundation of Islam. Muhammad declared that Allah is the one Creator God, the Father of Abraham who had a son, Ishmael... or said the other way around, the one Creator God, the Father of Abraham who had a son, Ishmael, and upon which Islam is foundered, is (using the Arabic word) called "Allah". I don't think he is talking about the pantheistic god of pre-Islamic times. He is really meaning the same God as the one of the Jews and the Christians.

(Christian2, if you happen to be around, I would be very interested in your comment on this.)

It certainly was important to establish continuity from the beginning of everything for Islam, and it is true that this is a device for doing so. But there is no doubt that Islam is a monotheistic religion, not a pantheistic one.

In effect he said, "Look, you already believe that the Moon-god Allah is the greatest of all gods. All I want you to do is to accept that the idea that he is the only god. I am not taking away the Allah you already worship. I am only taking away his wife and his daughters and all the other gods." This is seen from the fact that the first point of the Muslim creed is not, "Allah is great" but "Allah is the greatest," i.e., he is the greatest among the gods. Why would Muhammad say that Allah is the "greatest" except in a polytheistic context? The Arabic word is used to contrast the greater from the lesser. That this is true is seen from the fact that the pagan Arabs never accused Muhammad of preaching a different Allah than the one they already worshipped. This "Allah" was the Moon-god according to the archeological evidence.

The writer surmises what Muhammad was thinking and saying. He does not actually know if what he has stated was indeed in the mind of Muhammad, but it is an interesting possibility all the same.
The word "greatest" is a superlative that implies a relationship with lesser kinds. That is certainly true. But don't we also use superlatives when we speak of our God, not so much to strengthen the idea that others of His kind exist (although that too) but simply as a means of praise and adoration, exalting and extolling Him in our own hearts, minds and souls? For example, Psalm 97:9 "For you, O LORD, are the Most High over all the earth; you are exalted far above all gods."
Therefore I am not sure that this is a particularly strong argument for the writer's case, and if it actually proves anything at all.

Muhammad thus attempted to have it both ways. To the pagans, he said that he still believed in the Moon-god Allah. To the Jews and the Christians, he said that Allah was their God too. But both the Jews and the Christians knew better and that is why they rejected his god Allah as a false god.

Is there anything in the Qu'ran that identifies Allah in any way with the pre-Islamic god by the same name?
(Where are you, Christian2?)

However, it is certainly a very clever marriage of an acceptable known name with a far more powerful deity adopted from the religion of those whom Muhammad wanted to overcome in every possible way.

The use of the crescent moon as a Muslim symbol is very interesting. But what of our pagan attachments to Christianity? Don't we have some also?

Islam is nothing more than a revival of the ancient Moon-god cult. It has taken the symbols, the rites, the ceremonies, and even the name of its god from the ancient pagan religion of the Moon-god. As such, it is sheer idolatry and must be rejected by all those who follow the Torah and Gospel.

I think it is more than just a revival of the ancient Moon-god cult, if it is that - and I am not yet persuaded. It has a whole bunch of additions, not least of which include a mission for world-wide dominance and an alleged relationship to the Judeo-Christian God. But I certainly believe the current day Islamic Allah to be a false god, something no longer resembling the Judeo-Christian God who is Father of Abraham and from where Islam established a foundation. I see that there is certainly a glimmering of truth in their representation of Allah from the earlier Mecca period, and there are characteristics which Muslims claim for Allah that are true of the triune God, but the deity that this has evolved into from the Medina period onwards is something quite else... and that is what I call a false god. I still don't think I would call this Allah the old pre-Islamic moon-god, though.

Those are my thoughts on this article, and I post them here with the invitation for others to further the discussion.
Thanks for posting this, Deborah. In my view it is certainly an interesting comment.

[Deborah]

I found that the Qur'an at one time instructed the worship of al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat, the daughters of Allah the moon god. Surah 53:19-20.
More on this can be found at
http://answering-islam.org/Gilchrist/Vol1/3c.html

Is there anything in the Qu'ran that identifies Allah in any way with the pre-Islamic god by the same name?

but by the same token the Qu'ran assumes that it's reader has already heard of Allah, or so I have read. maybe someone who is in the know can help me out here.

[Judah]

Here is what the Wikipedia encyclopaedia has to say about it (much the same as Deborah's link):

The term Satanic Verses was coined by the historian Sir William Muir to refer to several verses alleged to have been part of an early version of the Qur'an and later expunged. The story of the verses can be read in al-Waqidi and al-Tabari's recension of Ibn Ishaq's biography of Prophet Muhammad, the Sirat Rasul Allah, which is believed to have been written 120-130 years after Muhammad's death.

Ibn Ishaq reports that Muhammad was anxious to attract the people of Mecca (who were, after all, his tribesmen and neighbors) to Islam. As he was reciting to himself this verse of the Qur'an, as revealed to him by the angel Gabriel:

Have you thought of al-Lat and al-'Uzza and Manat the third, the other
(Sura 53, 19-20)
Satan tempted him to add the following line:
These are the exalted Gharaniq, whose intercession is approved.

al-Lat, al-'Uzza and Manat were three goddesses worshipped by the Meccans. Gharaniq is a hapax legomenon, a word found only in this one place; commentators say that it means Numidian cranes, which fly at a great height. The subtext to this allegation is that Muhammad was backing away from his otherwise uncompromising monotheism by saying that these goddesses were real and their intercession effective.

The story goes that Meccans were overjoyed to hear this and ceased to persecute Muhammad and his flock. The Muslims who had migrated to Ethiopia started returning to Mecca. The angel Gabriel came to Muhammad later and scolded him for adding his erroneous invention to the divine scripture. Muhammed took back his words and the persecution resumed.

Almost all Muslim scholars have rejected the story as historically improbable (it would have taken a long time for news to travel to Ethiopia and for the refugees to return) and inconsistent with Muhammad's staunch monotheism. They argue that this story must have been a fabrication by the Meccans and other enemies of Muhammad, and that Ibn Ishaq, al-Tabari, and al-Waqidi only reported the fabrication they heard from others. Some Western scholars, such as John Burton, also doubt the authenticity of the story (J. Burton, Those Are The High-Flying Cranes, Journal Of Semitic Studies, 1970, Volume 15, No. 2, pp. 246-265).

Critics have stated that Muslims reject the story only because it is so disturbing to their faith. As Muslims, they cannot bring themselves to believe that Muhammad would tamper with the words of the Qur'an, even temporarily.

A number of Muslim scholars, notably Fazlur Rahman, have argued that if we are to trust Ibn Ishaq on other matters, we must trust him on this one.

Hmm, looks like Islam is a little upset by this "intrusion" and it is a subject of some contention.

However, it would seem this is the only lapse towards the Moon-god Allah and the rest of the Qu'ran does not come into the same scrutiny for any other similar reference.

(Now where has C2 got to?)

[Judah]

One way that Muslims have of dealing with this reference to the 3 godesses is the use of nasikh, the principle of abrogation.

It has been claimed that the reference to the godesses came about by Muhammad being tempted by Satan and that the reference is words from Satan, not from Allah. However, Allah later abrogated those words.

Surah 22:52 Pickthall ~ Never sent We a messenger or a prophet before thee but when He recited (the message) Satan proposed (opposition) in respect of that which he recited thereof. But Allah abolisheth that which Satan proposeth. Then Allah establisheth His revelations (ayatihi). Allah is Knower, Wise;

The following is a clip from an interesting article, MUHAMMAD AND THE SATANIC VERSES by Samuel Green.

While Muhammad was in Mecca he tried to persuade the Quraysh (Meccans) to accept Islam. They were not receptive to him and made life difficult for him and his followers, and so Muhammad's desire to see his people accept him and Islam was unfulfilled. This was until Muhammad recited the following verse.

Have you thought of al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third ... these are the exalted Gharaniq [3] whose intercession is approved. (Ibn Ishaq, pp. 165-166)

Al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat were some of the local idols worshiped in Mecca. Previously Muhammad had spoken against them in his monotheist preaching but now Muhammad accepted the idols and recited that their "intercession is approved". The Islamic explanation as to why Muhammad accepted the idols is that Satan put these words on Muhammad's lips.

Satan ... put upon his (Muhammad's) tongue "these are the exalted Gharaniq whose intercession is approved". (Ibn Ishaq, pp. 165-166)

Muhammad recited these words as if they were from God when in fact they were from Satan. This is what is meant by the phrase, the Satanic verses: they are verses from Satan that Muhammad recited as if they were from God. Now that Muhammad had recited that the idols were acceptable the Quraysh accepted him.

When Quraysh heard that, they were delighted and greatly pleased at the way in which he spoke of their gods and they listened to him ... Then the people dispersed and Quraysh went out, delighted at what had been said about their gods, saying, "Muhammad has spoken of our gods in splendid fashion". (Ibn Ishaq, p. 166)

Muhammad's desire had been realised; the Quraysh accepted him. The Quraysh accepted Muhammad because he had accepted their gods and idols. However, after some time Muhammad realised the error of what he had said. The Islamic explanation is that Muhammad was rebuked by the angel Gabriel.

Then Gabriel came to the apostle and said , "What have you done, Muhammad? You have read to these people something I did not bring you from God and you have said what He did not say to you." (Ibn Ishaq, p. 166)

Muhammad now changed his mind and said that God had told him to speak against the idols and to reject them.

When the annulment of what Satan had put upon the prophet's tongue came from God, Quraysh said: "Muhammad has repented of what he said about the position of your gods with Allah, altered it and brought something else." (Ibn Ishaq, p. 166-167)

Muhammad now had to explain both to his followers and to the Quraysh why he had changed his mind about their idols and no longer accepted them. The reason he gave was the following verse of the Qur'an.

Never have We sent a single prophet or apostle before you with whose wishes Satan did not tamper. But God abrogates the interjections of Satan and confirms His own revelations. (Qur'an 22:52, Dawood)

Muhammad's explanation was that his momentary acceptance of the idols was because Satan had tampered with his wishes and given him words that he thought were from God, but that God had now removed these verses and corrected the whole situation.

By using this principle of abrogation, it would seem that Islam quickly restored itself to the position of a monotheistic faith again.
The fact that Muslims will argue this way to deal with those "satanic verses" seems to suggest (to me) that they are shying well away from the notion that Allah is the pantheistic Moon-god of pre-Islamic times.

Here is another interesting article concerning those verses: Abolishing what Satan proposes? by Sam Shamoun & Jochen Katz

[Christian2]

Here is my two cents.

I googled these words: Allah is the Moon God

This one sites the pros and cons http://answering-islam.org.uk/Index/M/moongod.html and includes the article posted on this site.

Others:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/skm30804.htm

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Quran/Sou ... quotes.htm

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Shamoun/ishmael-baal.htm

You will find Muslim responses included if you do the google as I did.

I know for a fact that Muslims believe that they are worshipping the one and only God; the God of Abraham, Isaac, David, etc.

In my opinion it does not matter what name Muslims use for God. Allah is simply the name for God in Arabic. Arabic speaking Christians say "Allah" when speaking of God, but these Christians are worshipping Yahweh as revealed in the Bible. We need not determine who God is by His name. If we are to try to determine if Allah is really Yahweh, then we need to consider much more than a name; we need to consider the difference in the character of Allah and Yahweh.

One of my favorite comparisons is the issue of polygamy and divorce. Yahweh says that He hates divorce; Yahweh said not to multiply wives; we all know what Jesus said about divorce and remarriage. Yet, Allah allows polygamy and divorce. What's up with that?

Besides that check out the Jewish and Christian myths incorporated into the Qur'an as "revelation" from God here:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Books/Ti ... /index.htm

And here:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Books/Ti ... /index.htm

And here:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Books/Zw ... /index.htm

I gathered the above from this main index: http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Sources/index.html

If you can't get the answering-islam site--I think they closed down just as I gathered up these articles--they do that from time to time to make adjustments for their site. You may get a message saying "Your access is temporarily suspended..." Just try later.

Anyway, I have never gotten a satisfactory answer from Muslims about how these stories ended up in the Qur'an. I wonder sometimes if the Jews and Christians told Muhammad these stories and said that they came from the Bible and he put them into the Qur'an not knowing that they were myths and not knowing the difference.

I have more problems with the Qur'an than the Moon God subject.

Shalom

[Judah]

I know for a fact that Muslims believe that they are worshipping the one and only God; the God of Abraham, Isaac, David, etc.

In my opinion it does not matter what name Muslims use for God. Allah is simply the name for God in Arabic. Arabic speaking Christians say "Allah" when speaking of God, but these Christians are worshipping Yahweh as revealed in the Bible. We need not determine who God is by His name. If we are to try to determine if Allah is really Yahweh, then we need to consider much more than a name; we need to consider the difference in the character of Allah and Yahweh.

When I did a search to find out more about any reference to the Moon-god Allah within the Qu'ran, I found only those surahs known as the "Satanic Verses" plus the explanation of how they were nasikh (abrogated) by Allah as they were the words of Satan instead.
There was no other reference to the notion that Allah (of Islam) was considered to be the pantheistic Moon-god Allah.

This reference to the Moon-god Allah is not the basis for my belief that Allah is not the same deity as Yahweh, our triune God. There are quite a number of other major differences, especially of character, but also of historical accounts and revelations, and of Being (His triune status) which to me are far more compelling.

The fact that Muslims were quick to have Allah restored to monotheistic state indicates to me that they truly do believe in a single deity, not in the Moon-god pantheistic version.

However, I think this is all interesting learning about Islam and I am glad that Deborah found that article and posted it here.

[AttentionKMartShoppers]

And the fact that God never changes-but Allah supposedly changes his mind over and over (doctrine of abrogation)(which is also abrogated in the Koran)

[Christian2]

Hi Judah,

The fact that Muslims were quick to have Allah restored to monotheistic state indicates to me that they truly do believe in a single deity, not in the Moon-god pantheistic version.

Let's look at this subject and draw a parallel with something Paul said and did.

First Muhammad:

The pagan Arabs were worshipping many gods--360 I believe--Muhammad became convinced that there was only one god. He was probably influenced by the Jews and Christians around him. Muhammad had many discussions about religion with the people in his community. So when he became convinced he declared to the pagan Arabs that there was just one god and this one god was the one and only creator God.

Paul:

"People of Athens, I see that you are in every respect religiously exact. For as I walked about and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even came upon an altar inscribed, 'To a God Unknown.' Now what you thus worship unknowingly I would proclaim to you" (Acts 17:23).

Paul was preaching to people who believed in a lot of gods, too. His purpose was to reveal the one and only creator God to those who believed in a lot of gods.

Muhammad claimed this god to be Allah, even though as far as I know all of the little gods hanging around also were called Allah. Allah simply means "god" of "God."

As I said there is no doubt in my mind that the Muslims believe that they are worshipping the same God as the Jews and the Christians (ignoring the Trinity stuff).

But that does not mean that Allah and Yahweh are the same god for the reasons I pointed out previously.

Allah has no son even in the figurative sense so my Muslim friend tells me.
Yahweh says that He does in the figurative sense.

It is not easy to get these Islam/Judaism/Christianity subjects straightened out, is it?

Shalom

P.S. I have a post from my Muslim friend that I wouldn't mind having some help with from the folks at G&S. It has to do with Paul, Jesus, the law, circumcision, and the everlasting covenant.

[Judah]

So then, to summarize:

It looks as though we have debunked the following claim quoted here...

The Muslim's claim that Allah is the God of the Bible and that Islam arose from the religion of the prophets and apostles is refuted by solid, overwhelming archeological evidence. Islam is nothing more than a revival of the ancient Moon-god cult.

...that forms the conclusion from the original article that Deborah has posted.

There is both truth and wrongful interpretation in that article.
The truth is that archeology has unearthed material evidence of the Moon-god cult.
The wrongful interpretation is that the Allah of Islam is the same deity of the Moon-god cult.

However, that doesn't make Allah of Islam any less of a false god.

Muslims claim to be worshipping the only God, creator of all creation, Father of Abraham and his son Ishmael.

But the god that Muslims worship does not bear very much resemblance to the Judeo-Christian God whom we worship, despite Muhammad founding Islam on his representation of Yahweh.

PS. Please do post the claim made by your Muslim friend. It will be interesting to hear what he thinks, and learn how best to respond to it.

[Deborah]

yes Judah, there doesn't seem to be too much resemblance at all between Islams Allah and our LORD God.

10 Reasons Islam Is Not From God
Reason #1:
Islam cannot be from God because the prophet of Islam, Muhammad, did not pass God's first test for a prophet. Deuteronomy 18:21-22 tells us that God will authenticate those He sends as a prophet by having them perform signs. Muhammad gave no sign as required by God.


(Deuteronomy 18:21,22, NAS95) 21 "You may say in your heart, 'How will we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?' 22 "When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.
Muslims recognize this and try to overcome the principle of God confirming his revelation with signs by asserting that the revelation of the Qur'an itself is a sign. When Muhammad was challenged by the Jews and Christians to produce a sign, he received a special revelation from Allah.

Qur'an 6:37-39, 36. And they said: "Why is not a sign sent down to him from his Lord?" Say: "Allâh is certainly Able to send down a sign, but most of them know not." 38. There is not a moving (living) creature on earth, nor a bird that flies with its two wings, but are communitie like you. We have neglected nothing in the Book, then unto their Lord they (all) shall be gathered. 39. Those who reject Our Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) are deaf and dumb in darkness. Allâh sends astray whom He wills and He guides on the Straight Path whom He wills.
Muslims claim that the Qur'an itself is the sign God gave Muhammad.

Notice the difference in the Muslim claims and the evidence put forward by the Hebrew writer in Hebrews 2:3-4,

"How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?"

Reason #2:
Islam cannot be from God because Muhammad's teaching does not pass the second test God gave for a prophet. Deuteronomy 13:1-4 tells us that no prophet will bring a revelation that is in conflict with previous revelation. His revelation must agree with the previous revelation of God. Deuteronomy 13:1-4


Deuteronomy 13:1-4, 1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
Muhammad's revelation contradicts the previous revelations in both facts and principles. Consider the account of Joseph. In the Qur'an, Qur'an 12, Yusuf Beginning in Ayah 21.

Qur'an 12:21-34, 21. And the Egyptian who bought him said to his wife: Give him an honorable abode, maybe he will be useful to us, or we may adopt him as a son. And thus did We establish Yusuf in the land and that We might teach him the interpretation of sayings; and Allah is the master of His affair, but most people do not know. 22. And when he had attained his maturity, We gave him wisdom and knowledge: and thus do We reward those who do good. 23. And she in whose house he was sought to make himself yield (to her), and she made fast the doors and said: Come forward. He said: I seek Allah's refuge, surely my Lord made good my abode: Surely the unjust do not prosper. 24. And certainly she made for him, and he would have made for her, were it not that he had seen the manifest evidence of his Lord; thus (it was) that We might turn away from him evil and indecency, surely he was one of Our sincere servants. 25. And they both hastened to the door, and she rent his shirt from behind and they met her husband at the door. She said: What is the punishment of him who intends evil to your wife except imprisonment or a painful chastisement? 26. He said: She sought to make me yield (to her); and a witness of her own family bore witness: If his shirt is rent from front, she speaks the truth and he is one of the liars: 27. And if his shirt is rent from behind, she tells a lie and he is one of the truthful. 28. So when he saw his shirt rent from behind, he said: Surely it is a guile of you women; surely your guile is great: 29. O Yusuf! turn aside from this; and (O my wife)! ask forgiveness for your fault, surely you are one of the wrong-doers. 30. And women in the city said: The chiefs wife seeks her slave to yield himself (to her), surely he has affected her deeply with (his) love; most surely we see her in manifest error. 31. So when she heard of their sly talk she sent for them and prepared for them a repast, and gave each of them a knife, and said (to Yusuf): Come forth to them. So when they saw him, they deemed him great, and cut their hands (in amazement), and said: Remote is Allah (from imperfection); this is not a mortal; this is but a noble angel. 32. She said: This is he with respect to whom you blamed me, and certainly I sought his yielding himself (to me), but he abstained, and if he does not do what I bid him, he shall certainly be imprisoned, and he shall certainly be of those who are in a state of ignominy. 33. He said: My Lord! the prison house is dearer to me than that to which they invite me; and if Thou turn not away their device from me, I will yearn towards them and become (one) of the ignorant. 34. Thereupon his Lord accepted his prayer and turned away their guile from him; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing.
Now consider the same account from the Bible in Genesis 39:7-21

(Genesis 39:7-21, KJV) 7 And it came to pass after these things, that his master's wife cast her eyes upon Joseph; and she said, Lie with me. 8 But he refused, and said unto his master's wife, Behold, my master wotteth not what is with me in the house, and he hath committed all that he hath to my hand; 9 There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God? 10 And it came to pass, as she spake to Joseph day by day, that he hearkened not unto her, to lie by her, or to be with her. 11 And it came to pass about this time, that Joseph went into the house to do his business; and there was none of the men of the house there within. 12 And she caught him by his garment, saying, Lie with me: and he left his garment in her hand, and fled, and got him out. 13 And it came to pass, when she saw that he had left his garment in her hand, and was fled forth, 14 That she called unto the men of her house, and spake unto them, saying, See, he hath brought in an Hebrew unto us to mock us; he came in unto me to lie with me, and I cried with a loud voice: 15 And it came to pass, when he heard that I lifted up my voice and cried, that he left his garment with me, and fled, and got him out. 16 And she laid up his garment by her, until his lord came home. 17 And she spake unto him according to these words, saying, The Hebrew servant, which thou hast brought unto us, came in unto me to mock me: 18 And it came to pass, as I lifted up my voice and cried, that he left his garment with me, and fled out. 19 And it came to pass, when his master heard the words of his wife, which she spake unto him, saying, After this manner did thy servant to me; that his wrath was kindled. 20 And Joseph's master took him, and put him into the prison, a place where the king's prisoners were bound: and he was there in the prison.
Consider the differences in the facts presented about the lives of the Biblical characters. In the Qur'an Potiphar was at the door when Joseph fled. He wasn't at home in the Bible Account. In the Qur'an, Potiphar believed Joseph while in the Bible Potiphar believed his wife. In the Qur'an, Joseph requested that he be put in prison so that he might avoid the temptation of women and in the Bible, he was imprisoned by Potiphar for accosting his wife. Surely it is easy to see the differences. Joseph is just a sample. There are other contradictions in almost every account of the lives of Bible people. In the Qur'an, one of Noah's sons died in the flood while in the Bible, all of them were on the ark. Compare the Biblical account of Lot with the Qur'an's account of Lot (Lut in the Qur'an-NR). In the Qur'an, Abraham's father was an idolater and forced Abraham to leave home for trying to teach monotheism, while the Biblical account has Abraham leaving after his father's death.

Now consider just one principle that is set forth in the New Testament with the principles set forth in the Qur'an.

The New Testament, Matthew 5:44, But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
The Qur'an, Qur'an 61, the Ranks, Ayah 4. Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way in ranks as if they were a firm and compact wall
The Qur'an, Qur'an 2, The Cow, Al Baqarah Ayah 190. And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits. 191. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
What a contrast. Jesus says to love, forgive, and pray for your enemies. The Qur'an says to kill them. If that isn't a different doctrine than what was revealed, nothing is.


Reason #3:
Islam cannot be from God because it denies the Godhood of Jesus. In the Qur'an, Muhammad takes great pains to deny the deity of Jesus. It demeans Jesus and makes him just a man. In Philippians, Paul asserts that Jesus existed in the form of God.


Qur'an 4:171 "O people of the book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of God naught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of God, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: So believe in God and His messengers..."
(Philippians 2:5-9, NAS95) 5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,

Reason #4:
Islam cannot be from God because Muhammad frequently changed his revelations to suit circumstances. The classic example is Muhammad's teaching on drinking. When he was just beginning to teach, before Muhammad gained a significant following he said that it was alright to drink.


Qur'an 2:219 They ask you Concerning wine; gambling, Say "In them is great sin, And some profit for men; But the sin is greater Than the profit.
As his power base grew, he presented a stronger position. It was not acceptable to have had any intoxicants close enough to prayers to fog the mind.

Qur'an 4:43 O you who believe! Approach not prayer With a mind befogged, Until you can understand All that you say.
When his position was strongly established, he forbade the use of intoxicants entirely.

Qur'an 5:93 O you who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (Dedication) of stones, And (divination by) arrows, Are an abomination, - Of Satan' handiwork: Eschew such (abomination) That you may prosper. 94. Satan's plan is (but) To excite enmity and hatred Between you, with intoxicants And gambling, and hinder you From the remembrance Of Allah, and from prayer: Will you not then abstain?
His final revelation calls the use of intoxicants "Satan's handiwork." This puts him in the awkward position of having had Allah approve of "Satan's Handiwork' when he said that there was "some profit for men" in the use of intoxicants.

Does God vacillate on sin?


Reason #5:
Islam cannot be from God because its appeal is to man's lower nature rather than his higher nature. Compare the Biblical appeal of heaven to the Quranic appeal of heaven.


The Biblical Appeal

Matthew 5:10-12, 10. Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Peter 1:3-4, 3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
Mark 12:24-25, 24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? 25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
Revelation 7:9-17, 9. After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
The Qur'an makes a large portion of its appeal to the fleshly appetites and sensibilities of man.

Qur'an 37: 40. But the sincere (and devoted) Servants of Allah, 41. For them is a Sustenance Determined, 42. Fruits (Delights) and they (Shall enjoy) honor and dignity, 43. In Gardens of Felicity, 44. Facing each other On Thrones (of dignity): 45. Round will be passed To them a Cup From a clear flowing fountain, 46. Crystal white, of a taste Delicious to those Who drink (thereof), 47. Free from headiness; Nor will they suffer Intoxication there from. 48. And beside them will be Chaste women, restraining Their glances, with big eyes (Of wonder and beauty) 49. As if they were (Delicate) eggs closely guarded.
Qur'an 4:57. But those who believe And do deeds of righteousness, We shall soon admit to Gardens, With rivers flowing beneath, - Their eternal home; Therein shall they have Companions [wives, NR] pure and holy; We shall admit them To shades, cool and ever deepening.
Qur'an 44:51. As to the Righteous (They will be) in A position of Security, 52. Among Gardens and Springs; 53. Dressed in fine silk And in rich brocade, They will face each other; 54. So; and We shall Join them to Companions With beautiful big And lustrous eyes. 55. There can they call For every kind of fruit In peace and security; 56. Nor will they there Taste Death, except the first Death: and He will preserve Them from the Penalty Of the Blazing Fire.
Which makes its appeal to the higher nature of man? The Bible does.

Which is more likely to be from God - that which appeals to man's higher nature, or that which appeals to his baser nature? The Bible is more likely to be from God than the Qur'an because its appeal is to man's higher nature, while the appeal of the Qur'an is to man's lower nature.


Reason #6:
Islam cannot be from God because its morality is inferior to the morality taught by the New Testament. In examining the contradictions between the Bible and the Qur'an, we encountered Jesus' teaching that we were to love and pray for our enemies while the Qur'an says to fight and kill your enemies. There is a tremendous gap in the standard of morality between the two standards. Which is more likely to be from God, the high standard of morality, or the low standard of morality?


Reason #7:
Islam cannot be from God because it is based upon a document, the Qur'an, made after God said revelation was finished.


Paul said that revelation would come to an end: 1 Corinthians 13:8, Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
Jude 3 tells us that the faith was fully delivered: Jude 3, Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Peter said that every thing that was necessary for man to be pleasing to God had been revealed.

2 Peter 1:3, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

Reason #8:
Islam cannot be from God because it is based upon the Qur'an which has internal contradictions. Any revelation from God will be consistent within itself. It will not contain internal contradictions. Since the Qur'an does contain internal contradictions, it cannot be from God, and any religion that is based upon it is not from God.


The Qur'an says that man was created from a clot of blood.

Qur'an 96:1. Proclaim (or Read) In the Name Of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created- 2. Created man out of A (mere) clot Of congealed blood;
The Qur'an says that man was created from was created from clay.

Qur'an 6:2 (Also 7:12) 2. He it is Who created You from clay, and then Decreed a stated term (For you). And there is In His Presence another Determined term; yet Ye doubt within yourselves!
The Qur'an says that man was created from was created from water.

Qur'an 25:54. It is He Who has Created man from water: Then has He established Relationships of lineage And marriage: for thy Lord Has power (over all things).
These are internal contradictions that indicate the origin of the Qur'an was not the mind of God, but the mind of man, Muhammad.


Reason #9:
Islam cannot be from God because the Qur'an frequently contradicts the Bible.


The Qur'an advocates the beating of wives who are perceived to be misbehaving.

Qur'an - 4:34 Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allâh has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allâh and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allâh orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allâh is Ever Most High, Most Great.
The Bible teaches that man is to love his wife and treat her as his own body.

Ephesians 5:25-29, 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. 28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. 29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Surely God will not change his mind about such a significant principle in husband and wife relationships. The Quranic ideal is contrary to the teaching of the New Testament.


Reason #10:
Islam cannot be from God because it denies the crucifixion of Jesus.


The central figure of the New Testament is Jesus. From his temptations in the desert to the resurrection, the focus of Jesus is his death on the cross to provide a sacrifice for mankind's sin. The Qur'an denies that Jesus died on the cross and that would then preclude his resurrection. It is the contention of Islam that God took Jesus into heaven and transformed Judas to look like Jesus. The teach that it was actually Judas who died on the cross.
Qur'an 4:157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The apostle of Allah"; But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, But so it was made To appear to them, And those who differ Therein are full of doubts, With no (certain) knowledge, But only conjecture to follow, For of a surety, They killed him not.
The Bible clearly and plainly teaches that Jesus was crucified on the cross.

Matthew 27:35, 35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.
1 Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-10-reas ... om-god.htm

[Christian2]

Judah,

I sent my Muslim friend this:

I thought that you might be interested in how the discussion turned out. The consensus was that Muslims do not worship the god of the Moon and that Muslims believe that they are worshipping the only God there is.

(And I used my parallel argument.)

Muhhammad was facing something similar to what Paul faced in Athens--idol worshippers who didn't realize that there is only one God.

In Muhammad's day, the pagan Arabs had many gods (360 I believe). Somewhere along the line your prophet became convinced that there was only one god. No doubt being influenced by the Jews and Christians around him. Your prophet had many discussions about religion with the people around him and he enjoyed talking about it.

Remember when Paul was visiting Athens and found the people worshipping many gods?

"People of Athens, I see that you are in every respect religiously exact. For as I walked about and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even came upon an altar inscribed, 'To a God Unknown.' Now what you thus worship unknowingly I would proclaim to you" (Acts 17:23).

Paul in using this altar "To an God Unknown" used it to proclaim that this unknown god was in fact the only God, the creator God in order to get these people turned around.

So it does not matter that all the gods the pagans worshipped were also called "Allah." Allah meaning "god" or "God."

This is his response:

From you: "I thought that you might be interested in how the discussion turned out. The concensus was that Muslims do not worship the god of the Moon and that Muslims believe that they are worshipping the only God there is."

That's good but I feel pity for those people who do not seem to be well-read. More will realise soon that Muslims worship only the One God Almighty Supreme, whom Jesus worshipped.

If I were you, I would draw a parallel only between Jesus and Muhammad, both of them being my Prophets only. I would have explained to them that Jesus was facing not just the Jews but also idol-worshippers of all sorts.

However, Paul was facing idol-worshippers in Rome and Greece, so he had to explain to them what he had learnt and heard about Jesus from others, as he had NOT really learnt anything direct from Jesus, while Jesus was alive. You know well that I do not have any high opinion of Paul and I don't like him at all.

Muhammad was facing something similar to Jesus faced in Galilee and Jerusalem, the Jews who knew well that there was only One God and idol worshippers who didn't realize that there was only one God.

There is something wonderful here that I must mention about Prophet Muhammad. He never worshipped or fiddled with the idols and the idolators. He abhorred that like Abraham did when he was a child.

Had the Prophet, like you suggested, learned from the Christians and Idolators, by talking and listening and acted on his own, he would have come up with similar tales. Instead he came up with Islam and Qur'aan. That is the difference.

------

The part where he said he didn't like Paul at all is an understatement. lol

Shalom

PS. Please do post the claim made by your Muslim friend. It will be interesting to hear what he thinks, and learn how best to respond to it.

OK, do you think it would be OK if I posted it on this thread?

[Judah]

OK, do you think it would be OK if I posted it on this thread?

Well, it was Deborah who started this thread so it should be her to say if it is OK or not.
I think it is quite a good idea to have a thread devoted to discussion of Christian/Muslim things, and Deborah has certainly provided one with her posts of interesting information regarding Islam.

I had been thinking about what might be the best strategies for witnessing to Muslims, and your need for a response to your Muslim friend's comments would be a good place to start working that out. And the info that Deborah pops up with also provides some interesting points to take into account. I didn't know Muslims hated Paul so much.

I want to think on this, so I'll be back later. Dr Gabriel has a couple of chapters in one of his books that I want to re-read.

[Christian2]

Judah,

My vote is for a separate thread.

Shalom