Evidence for God from Science

I am beginning to think the bible is nothing more that a collection of stories that have been warped or exaggerated. What do you think?

Questioning Mind wrote:I am beginning to think the bible is nothing more that a collection of stories that have been warped or exaggerated. What do you think?

I think if your are beginning to think, then you are not yet good enough at thinking to make such assumptions.
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Questioning Mind - I hope that you are truly seeking truth. The Bible is coherent, is written over 1600 years, by 40 different authors, yet there is a common thread of respect, honour, and glory to God. The OT gives insight into the NT, and NT fulfills what was written in the OT.

In 2 Peter 1:16-21 Peter states that the apostles were not following cunning devised fables [that's stories] but a sure word of God. You see all Scripture points to the One who came to save His People from their sins. The Bible speaks about itself as powerful Hebrews 4:12, sharper than a two-edged sword. Jesus was the Word of God in flesh John 1:14. The Word was in the beginning at creation John 1:1, because God is spirit & truth John 4:23,24.

Jesus Himself reveals that the OT events were real.
Luke 13:28; Matthew 12:40; John 4:5; Luke 10:11-16.

The Bible starts with Garden of Eden Genesis 2, and ends with Paradise Revelation 22. God starts with first creation Genesis 1,2, and finishes with the second creation Revelation 21. Why is this book so hated, and yet still survives many generations after many attempt has been to destroy it.

With regards to Noah is it mistaken that many nations' ancestors record a world wide flood. Why do people try to destroy the six day account of creation. Could it be that they do not want to face the judgement seat of Christ.

There is much more I could share here but I need to go now. I trust this will be a small step towards giving yourself over to trust & believe in Him.
Compassion

I would like to thank the member Compassion for answering my question seriously unlike other users. Although I don't consider myself searching for truth, I am looking for a Christian point of view and I am sorry if my previous post put off anyone. I don't understand how you can believe Peter (I'm not calling him a liar). How can it truly be the word of God if decreed by a mere mortal? Is the garden of eden a viable example with so much credible evidence for evolution? How can you cite the bible as its own example when I am questioning the sheer veracity of the text? How can't you question a text written by MEN who were trying to explain the world around them thousands of years ago? I am not questioning the existence of Christ and his followers, only some of the events and decrees of his faith. How do we know the word of God isn't simply the many authors of the bibles word?

Questioning Mind wrote:I would like to thank the member Compassion for answering my question seriously unlike other users.

Only one other user made a comment. I didn't attempt to answer your question.

Questioning Mind wrote:Although I don't consider myself searching for truth, I am looking for a Christian point of view and I am sorry if my previous post put off anyone.

Does this statement mean to say that Christians are unable to convey truth?

Questioning Mind wrote:I don't understand how you can believe Peter (I'm not calling him a liar).

If he's not telling the truth, he is a liar...and you cannot brush this aside no matter if you add "(I'm not calling him a liar)" in quotations.

Questioning Mind wrote:How can it truly be the word of God if decreed by a mere mortal?

Have you ever been to court? Are not affidavit's allowed as truthful testimony in the absense of the one giving the testimony?

Questioning Mind wrote:Is the garden of eden a viable example with so much credible evidence for evolution?

Who said the G of E is an example of and/or evidence for evolution?

Questioning Mind wrote:How can you cite the bible as its own example when I am questioning the sheer veracity of the text? How can't you question a text written by MEN who were trying to explain the world around them thousands of years ago? I am not questioning the existence of Christ and his followers, only some of the events and decrees of his faith. How do we know the word of God isn't simply the many authors of the bibles word?

If we find within the Bible, genuine prophecy...then this substanciates itself.
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Questioning Mind...think about it...are you expecting God to deliver a personal letter to you stating yep its mine. What you need to do is read it, and read it. And in your closet when no one else is around pray to Him, He will answer if you are truly seeking Him.

Think about it - cause what else are you going to believe, some other book written by men, of another day and age. Its what one man says in your mind compared to another, but I have seen peoples lives changed by this book when they turn to God and trust Him at His Word.

Think about the how this book has affected man over the ages. Of course you can either look at the negative side, or the positive. Like I said people over the ages have tried to destroy this book without success. I know my life has changed for the good. He has changed me on the inside and that is all that matters. Jesus indwells me, inspires me, strengthens me, uplifts me...there is no getting around it I am a changed man.

Thanks for your consideration,
Compassion

Questioning Mind wrote:I am beginning to think the bible is nothing more that a collection of stories that have been warped or exaggerated. What do you think?

I believe there is nothing wrong with doubt. I would not expect someone who isn't apart of my faith to accept everything in the Bible, especially when there are many Christians who accept divine inspiration but not inerrancy (the latter being strict in relation to error).

My suggestion is to a non-Christian, that irrespective of whether "everything" is accepted in the Bible or not, they can try to at least chip into many Christian teachings by sincerely and openly examining them. My suggestion would be to first start at the core of Christianity, examining the historical Jesus and evidence supporting Christ's death and resurrection. There is a good article at Easter: Myth, Hallucination, or History?, and many helpful writings to be found at http://www.jewsforjesus.org/answers/evidence/jesus.htm, and http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcrai ... rical.html.

Hope this helps.

Kurieuo.

My statement "Although I don't consider myself searching for truth, I am looking for a Christian point of view and I am sorry if my previous post put off anyone.", means that I am not on a personal quest for salvation. I am purely interested in what really happened historically, I wouldn't take another persons word for what happened in history. I did not call Peter a lair, a man is not lying if he truly believes what he is saying or in this case writing. I merely meant that I am not ready to take a primitive mans interpretation of our world. Now I mean primitive by standard intelligence of our day. As for the garden of eden Compassion talked about I was trying to show if evolution took place, the events in the garden of eden didn't, the ideas do not correlate. On the issue of affidavits, people who are dead or otherwise incapacitated, or who cannot be located or made to appear may be accepted by the court, but usually only in the presence of corroborating evidence, but nobody's alive who wrote the bible to corroborate this. If you finding genuine prophecy in the bible makes it true, then technically anything anybody thought was true would be true as well.

Questioning Mind wrote:My statement "Although I don't consider myself searching for truth, I am looking for a Christian point of view and I am sorry if my previous post put off anyone.", means that I am not on a personal quest for salvation. I am purely interested in what really happened historically, I wouldn't take another persons word for what happened in history.

Well this last sentence of yours above kind of makes your question at the start of this thread a fruitless exercise then doesn't it? Why you are asking questions here if you wouldn't trust another person's opinion?

Anyway, there are plenty of resources to aid in searching stuff out yourself. Christ is a good starting point to examine. And so I wish you all the best on your exploration when you decide it's important enough to explore rather than just question.

Kurieuo.

Compassion wrote:Think about it - cause what else are you going to believe, some other book written by men, of another day and age. Its what one man says in your mind compared to another, but I have seen peoples lives changed by this book when they turn to God and trust Him at His Word.

That's so dead-on... I agree absoutely, completely, 100%.

Questioning,
You're not going to take anyone's word about history? Do you realize that most of what we (think we) know is just that - taking someone else's word? Most of our history of Ancient Greece, for instance, comes directly from Homer who at the time of that writing was already several hundred years past the actual events. But we don't accept blindly. Instead we corroborate. So if Homer says that the Carthaginians fought whoever, at some city, we then undertake archeologic expeditions to search for evidence that the city exists and that there was a battle.

The Bible's no different. It doesn't say that Jesus and the apostles went from here to there, just making up city names. Rather, the information within the Bible is an accurate revelation of cities of the time, etc. If the Bible mentioned 300 cities that didn't even exist, it would have been dismissed as nonsense long ago.

But yet it survives, precisely because there is no credible evidence that undermines the authority of the Bible. The more people look for evidence either for or against, the more they find in support of the Bible. So then some turn to the text itself to find contradictions. But the more they study, the more they're made to understand what it's saying and the more they're forced to acknowledge the truth within. There are countless stories of atheists whole open the Bible on the quest to "finally debunk it," but soon it breaks down Satan's lies and they're only left with the truth that Jesus is Lord.

And couple all of that with the reality that believers see their Faith affirmed continually. We see the hearts and minds of people changed. We see signs and miracles. We see and feel spiritual warfare. Our Faith is not blind - it is ever-growing.

Historians did not take Homer at his word, like Felgar said some of what Homer wrote can be proved by science. I don't dispute the fact that Jesus and his followers were in certain places; I do dispute their interpretations of events. Man's capacity to completely mistake natural occurrences at this time was huge. Hundreds of year's later people mistook the plague as wraith from God! And it is obviously not because we have the knowledge to stop such things now. Homer had the many Greek gods, which I hope you'll all agree are a fantasy, but that doesn't mean some of what he wrote didn't happen; only the impossible he writes of. Felgar wrote: "But yet it survives, precisely because there is no credible evidence that undermines the authority of the Bible." What about science? Just because the banner at the top of the page says there's harmony between the two doesn't make it so. Evolution is very credible; if it weren't it wouldn't be the entire basis of biology. If evolution happened the bible is wrong, at least about the creation of man. What about other "holy" religious texts? Why is the bible the key to salvation? Felgar wrote "If the Bible mentioned 300 cities that didn't even exist, it would have been dismissed as nonsense long ago." This also is a false statement, today and especially in the time of Christ, if a group of people, like Jesus and his followers for example, pushed the idea on the general population of time, they would have definitely accepted it because the bible is a very well written text. And you have to remember the general population couldn't even READ the bible for themselves until the Reformation and the invention of the printing press. Felgar wrote, "The Bible's no different." [From Homer's works] I don't think it is wise to compare Homer's works to the bible. This is because much of his writings are stories with accurate period descriptions, there is some fact but most of it's story is fiction. I mean really, the Odyssey is fifty percent about Poseidon, Athena, and other Greek gods. Falgar also wrote: "And couple all of that with the reality that believers see their Faith affirmed continually. We see the hearts and minds of people changed. We see signs and miracles. We see and feel spiritual warfare." The bible changing people's minds is proof of its literary prowess, not its truth. Signs and miracles? Could it be that some men are so desperate to explain this world and what's beyond that they misinterpret things that science has no explanation for yet? Countless societal belief systems have died out and the world continues on, why is Christianity better? What spirtual warfare do we see besides the wars being fought by man himself?

"Homer had the many Greek gods, which I hope you'll all agree are a fantasy"

I think that they were the Nephilim, but to each his own I guess. As for misinterpreting miracles, I'm pretty damn sure there is a difference between the plague and raising somebody from the dead in front of a whole bunch of people. Kind of hard to misinterpret that.

Questioning Mind wrote:What about science? Just because the banner at the top of the page says there's harmony between the two doesn't make it so. Evolution is very credible; if it weren't it wouldn't be the entire basis of biology.

See, the harmony being claimed between science and the Bible goes to the very heart of our beliefs. The objective of science is to discover truths about our physical universe. God not only created this universe, but He and is Word ARE truth. So by the very definition of God, a reasonable Christian has no choice but to take on faith that science and God are harmoneous. Do you understand my beliefs on this?

Ahh yes, evolution. Well when science is 'right' about something, then we know (have faith) that it will never contradict the Bible. Honestly Questioning, you should do a little 'questioning' of your precious evolution because the facts are that evolution is NOT very credible. Were it credible, the fossil record would show gradual transitions between species, but it doesn't. The rocks don't lie, unlike the half-educated nitwits spouting out evolution theory like its fact just so that they can believe anything that will allow them to hide from the truth just a little longer. But please, let's not let this degenerate to yet another debate about evolution. But please understand, that most of our scientific knowledge from today will replaced with new truths over time. How many theories have lasted through the past 200 years?

Questioning Mind wrote: I don't think it is wise to compare Homer's works to the bible.

Hey at least we agree on something here. It was a weak comparison to start.

Questioning Mind wrote: The bible changing people's minds is proof of its literary prowess, not its truth. Signs and miracles? Could it be that some men are so desperate to explain this world and what's beyond that they misinterpret things that science has no explanation for yet?

Sure, it could be, if you're deceived by Satan. These have to be taken on Faith in order to strengthen that Faith. You can't feed a rock and expect it to grow.

Questioning Mind wrote: Countless societal belief systems have died out and the world continues on, why is Christianity better? What spirtual warfare do we see besides the wars being fought by man himself?

Christianity is better because it's the only religion that offers eternal life in paradise with God as a gift given freely, rather than as a reward for being a 'good person.'

You don't see any spiritual warfare, because you are blind. I feel it when I'm in the presence of an evil/possesed person (pretty rare). When we fellowship with believers. I've been to funerals of believers that have a peace that is unworldly. Would a legimate and valid double-blind scientific study that proves the effectiveness of prayer to heal interest you? Of course not - because you don't want to accept that the prayer has brought forth the healing power of God in a tangible way. You'd rather cling to the hope that some day science will figure out these 'anomalies.' Oh, and spiritual warfare is very common in poorer nations. Go visit some witch doctors in Africa - where does their power (and it's real power) come from?

P.S. Carriage returns are our friends.

the bible is the most accurate historical document in existence (out of any historical documentation on the entire planet). now, why would a mere collection of warped and exaggerated stories be so profoundly accurate?

Questioning Mind wrote:I would like to thank the member Compassion for answering my question seriously unlike other users. Although I don't consider myself searching for truth, I am looking for a Christian point of view and I am sorry if my previous post put off anyone. I don't understand how you can believe Peter (I'm not calling him a liar). How can it truly be the word of God if decreed by a mere mortal? Is the garden of eden a viable example with so much credible evidence for evolution? How can you cite the bible as its own example when I am questioning the sheer veracity of the text? How can't you question a text written by MEN who were trying to explain the world around them thousands of years ago? I am not questioning the existence of Christ and his followers, only some of the events and decrees of his faith. How do we know the word of God isn't simply the many authors of the bibles word?

Most human cannot comprehend God, therefore God made it easily comprehendible to different type of people. These people would reach out to pass on their knowledge in a specific manner that others like them would be able to comprehend the matter.

Would you be more convinced if every written facts from the bible came from one source? Or would you be more convinced when the bible written facts came from multiple sources that are not related?

Do not deceive yourself, the answer is obvious. If God made the bible from one source, no doubt people will question that source with disbelief.

It is because the bible came from many different sources that are unrelated, carrying out the same factual information, that makes it convincing.

Bible is history, to deny history is to deny your existence.