Evidence for God from Science

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:22 am**

Narnia is driving atheists mad!

The "Americans United for Separation of Church and State" loves it when state sponsors secular books to read in our schools but go ape-crazy when a classic like The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe is read in school.

State-Sponsored 'Narnia' Contest Causing a Stir in Florida
Barry Lynn's Americans United in a Huff Over Use of Christian Allegory to Promote Reading

By Jim Brown and Jody Brown
November 10, 2005

(AgapePress) - A religious freedom group is offering pro bono legal representation to any Florida school that is threatened with a lawsuit for taking part in a state reading contest that features a book in C.S. Lewis's "Chronicles of Narnia" series.

As part of Governor Jeb Bush's "Just Read, Florida!" program, students are being encouraged to read The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe in conjunction with the December release of a Disney movie based on the book. The director of the program, Mary Laura Openshaw, tells the Palm Beach Post that the goal of the program is "to get kids reading" -- and that state officials did not approach the reading program to help Disney or the promoter of the film, Walden Media.

But it is not the commercial aspect of the venture that bothers the group Americans United for Separation of Church and State, which is arguing that the contest violates the First Amendment because it promotes a "religious story." Barry Lynn, director of Americans United (AU), tells the Post that the Florida contest is "just totally inappropriate" because of the themes of the book. "It is simply a retelling of the story of Christ," says Lynn.

Openshaw responds that the story can be read without references to Christianity, and that children can "read the book and decide for themselves" about any correlation with the story of Jesus Christ.

Regardless, the situation is ripe for possible lawsuits against schools that institute the "Narnia" contest. That is why the Alliance Defense Fund, an Arizona-based religious liberty group, has offered to provide free legal representation to any schools Americans United threatens with legal action.

Gary McCaleb, senior counsel with ADF, calls AU's attempt to censor the book "classic left-wing activism."

"When I see the far-left coming out of the bunch of book-banners, as they are in this case, I just shake my head," McCaleb says. "The amazing thing to me is they focus on Narnia -- and really the only way you can understand Narnia to be a 'Christian book' [series] is to know a lot about Christianity to begin with to see that there are some analogies there."

AU is calling on Governor Bush to replace The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe with what it calls an "alternative non-religious book." McCaleb contends Americans United is clearly exhibiting that it is trying to stifle speech it does not like.

"All these other non-Christian religious books are being suggested reading for these kids, and yet when [Americans United] comes out, what do they hit? The one book that isn't even expressly religious -- it's strictly allegorical. What's up with that?" the attorney asks. "It's an anti-Christian agenda, and I think AU just really showed what kind of group they really are."

Such groups, according to the attorney, often "rail against censorship but seldom miss an opportunity to squelch speech they dislike." He adds: "In their America, it is always winter and never Christmas."

To enter the reading contest, students in grades 3-5 must submit an essay of up to 1,000 words. Upper grade students must submit an original illustration (grades 6-8) or a short video (grades 9-12). Prizes include a private movie screening in Orlando, a motel stay and dinner at Disney facilities, and gift certificates.

© 2005 AgapePress all rights reserved.

SOURCE: CLICK HERE

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:30 am**

Oh my fajorking Bob.

First explicit religous stuff is removed from public places... now "themed" stuff too? Sheez.

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:34 am**

Forge wrote:Oh my fajorking Bob.

First explicit religous stuff is removed from public places... now "themed" stuff too? Sheez.

You ain't seen nothing yet... The ACLU and others like it are PRESSING for ANYTHING religious to be done away with, they are purposely trying to secularize America and whatever other places they might branch out to besides the U.S.A. They are trying to remove Christmas and any other religious holiday!!!

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:49 am**

The ACLU is a joke and a nuisance.

I seem to remember a case of their defending a KKK man because his rights to free speech were being violated.

*slaps forehead*

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:20 pm**

Wow...I enjoy how the 1st Amendment has been so completely screwed up....sadly, though, a man by the name of Kenneth R Craycraft Jr says that the situation today with the first amendment and the hostilities against Christianity and Judaism (but pagan crap and Islam is A-OK...) is the logical result of the 1st amendment

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:04 pm**

Is he for or against the situation?

Posted: **Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:38 am**

I think public schools need to be careful when they step into the religious realm because, for instance, their reading of the Narnia books could be misconstrued as imposing beliefs upon people who don't necessarily care to share those beliefs. I do agree, however, that the Narnia books are fascinating and very important literary pieces. Besides the fact that they have religious undertones, teachers can emphasize meaning and themes without stating the fact that C.S. Lewis purposely wrote them as an allegory for Christianity. (please correct me if I am wrong here about C.S. Lewis). I think it is unwise to take the history and importance of different religions out of schools because kids would basically lose about half their history or even literature lessons... but it is when teaching and preaching a specific religion in a country that specifically separates it out of public schools is like walking on thin ice.

I don't think many of the people on this forum would be fond of pagan rituals or Wicca being taught in schools either.

Posted: **Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:15 pm**

Thinker wrote: You ain't seen nothing yet... The ACLU and others like it are PRESSING for ANYTHING religious to be done away with, they are purposely trying to secularize America and whatever other places they might branch out to besides the U.S.A. They are trying to remove Christmas and any other religious holiday!!!

the ACLU will probably stay out of this, they are smarter than that. any court case brought against a school would in all likelyhood fail. if i could remember anything from my civics class from four years ago i could name off some supreme court cases as to why. but, i have been given assignments involving reading the Bible in history, literature and science (the story of Daniel refusing the babylonian king's food is a very good example of an expiriment) classes, which is perfectly legal. if being ASSIGNED to read from the Bible is legal, sponsoring an essay contest for a book with subtle Christian themes that most kids wont find (i know i didnt when i read the series) would be as well.

Posted: **Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:27 pm**

I think public schools need to be careful when they step into the religious realm because, for instance, their reading of the Narnia books could be misconstrued as imposing beliefs upon people who don't necessarily care to share those beliefs.

And a teacher who says evolution is fact is imposing her religious beliefs on others, so public schools should stay out of that too, right? Having kids read a book is not the same as imposing one's views on others. That's retarded.

Posted: **Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:19 pm**

I was never taught that evolution was fact, first of all. It is explained as the most parsimonous explanation as to how life on this planet evolved, devoid of any religious philosophy and says nothing about the influence of a higher power... So, evolution is not a religious doctrine, so please stop saying that it is. It is a scientific theory, just like the theory of relativity. I also didn't say that reading a book was the same as imposing views upon somebody... I just said it may be misconstrued that way.

Posted: **Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:29 pm**

You were never taught evolution as if it were a fact? Then were you told about the many problems with it, and did they leave out several falsehoods that are used as evidence of evolution? And evolution does make a statement about God-He is utterly irrelevent...because evolution is taught as a mindless process...without purpose.

Posted: **Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:06 pm**

What are they teaching our kids about the Pilgrims nowadays? Do they skip over the reasons why the pilgrims came here?

Why are so many people tolerating Islam and not Christianity? Any analysis on this?

P.S. Is it true that some schools in California are teaching children parts of the Koran and Islamic prayers? Anyone getting threatened with legal action on that?

Posted: **Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:16 pm**

No, I have never heard any teacher or professor claim that evolution was a fact. It is fairly audacious in the science field to state something as fact... Yes, of course the downfalls to the theory were presented. It would be inaccurate to present any theory (regardless of discipline) without stating the assumptions and problems with it. You can find something wrong with any theory or study that exists today. That is part of our job, as scientists, to make science better and to criticize each other, learn from each other.

What are the several falsehoods that are used to support evolution? Everything I have read has been backed by several sources of evidence, suggesting the theory could be accurate. But I would like to hear your scientific, observable falsifications of evolution.[/i]

Posted: **Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:52 pm**

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/library/ ... heory.html

Evolution as Fact and Theory

Hhhmmm...

And what problems with evolution were you taught? I was never taught them....

And, the falsehoods that I am talking about:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0895262 ... eader-page

Click till you get to the contents page.

Posted: **Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:09 pm**

Mystical wrote:What are they teaching our kids about the Pilgrims nowadays? Do they skip over the reasons why the pilgrims came here?

no. at least in high school. in fact, my euro history class just finished covering that rather tumultuous century in english history. at younger, elementary ages, probably dont bother, just have the kids cut out a hand turkey or something.