Racism in the Bible

[Cheesypie]

I read through this webpage, http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/racism.html#01 and I found it inadequate.

In reading especially Ezra and Nehemiah, I do not see how one can deny a very clear streak of racism in scripture:

Ezra 9:2 (American Standard Version)

2 For they have taken of their daughters for themselves and for their sons, so that the holy seed have mingled themselves with the peoples of the lands: yea, the hand of the princes and rulers hath been chief in this trespass.


(The New Living Translation here says the "holy race" has become "polluted.")

The solution to this sinful situation is found in Ezra 10:2-3,

2 And Shecaniah the son of Jehiel, one of the sons of Elam, answered and said unto Ezra, We have trespassed against our God, and have married foreign women of the peoples of the land: yet now there is hope for Israel concerning this thing.

3 Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives, and such as are born of them, according to the counsel of my lord, and of those that tremble at the commandment of our God; and let it be done according to the law.

This is further condemned in Nehemiah 13:

23 In those days also saw I the Jews that had married women of Ashdod, of Ammon, and of Moab:

24 and their children spake half in the speech of Ashdod, and could not speak in the Jews' language, but according to the language of each people.

25 And I contended with them, and cursed them, and smote certain of them, and plucked off their hair, and made them swear by God, saying, Ye shall not give your daughters unto their sons, nor take their daughters for your sons, or for yourselves.

26 Did not Solomon king of Israel sin by these things? yet among many nations was there no king like him, and he was beloved of his God, and God made him king over all Israel: nevertheless even him did foreign women cause to sin.

27 Shall we then hearken unto you to do all this great evil, to trespass against our God in marrying foreign women?

Also, those non-Jews whom the Jewish leaders were not able to destroy were made slaves, as related in 1 Kings 9.

20 As for all the people that were left of the Amorites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, who were not of the children of Israel;

21 their children that were left after them in the land, whom the children of Israel were not able utterly to destroy, of them did Solomon raise a levy of bondservants unto this day.

22 But of the children of Israel did Solomon make no bondservants; but they were the men of war, and his servants, and his princes, and his captains, and rulers of his chariots and of his horsemen.

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Now, of course, some of this depends on how you define what racism is. There seems to be only 2 ways of viewing the racial question in scripture:

1. Respect alongside Preservationism: Treating other races with respect while not mixing so as to cause your own race to cease to exist is generally universally referred to as racism with little exception but is clearly present in the Old Testament. This respect obviously does not allow non-Jews sovereign nations between the Nile and Euphrates where strict Jewish-only habitation is to be maintained (Exodus 23:33).

2. Disrespect of others as shown in the taking of their land, expulsion of foreign populations and smashing of their cultural/religous symbols, slavery and replacement of them with one's own population and religion, done "bit by bit" as the non-Jews are driven out piecemeal as explained in Exodus 23 until the Promised Land extends eastward to the Euphrates.

[Mystical]

In reading especially Ezra...I do not see how one can deny a very clear streak of racism in scripture.

Alot of those people were ostracized because their cultures' beliefs were tainted, not their race.

I read through this webpage...and found it inadequate.

What was inadequate about it?

[Cheesypie]

Alot of those people were ostracized because their cultures' beliefs were tainted, not their race.?

What does this have to do with the forced expulsion of children and spouses who may have converted? There is no option for conversion offered to them. It seems to me that if the foreign children were kept there they could have been raised as Jewish as anyone else, and further Ezra 9:2 says "Holy seed," as opposed to Holy religion or Holy culture. There is a clear genetic line being drawn. The use of the term seed implies something Holy in the reproductive fluid of Jews. The only such justification for this would be an assumption that Israelites, even if they were sinners, were somehow LESS sinners than every foreigner among them. A murdering Jew is somehow better in God's eyes than a Gentile who is a non-murderer and does not steal. The only difference is this "seed."

I know of nobody who would stand for the mass expulsion of a whole people due to cultural differences and not call it an act of racism.

In Mark 7:24-29, Jesus refers to Gentiles as "dogs" and when a Gentile woman begs him for aid, he comments that the children (Jews) be given food and not the dogs (Gentiles).

The cultural aspect of this also does not explain why the Jews were allowed to take Gentiles as slaves (1 K. 9)

Jews are forbidden from charging interest to other Jews (Leviticus 25:37) but are allowed to charge interest to Gentiles (Deut. 23:20).

If any circumstance other than the Bible, all these things would be labelled racist.

[AttentionKMartShoppers]

Would you explain what is objectively and universally wrong with racism.

[Fortigurn]

Alot of those people were ostracized because their cultures' beliefs were tainted, not their race.?

What does this have to do with the forced expulsion of children and spouses who may have converted?

They hadn't converted.

There is no option for conversion offered to them.

They had years to convert, but they didn't convert.

[Jbuza]

There is a clear genetic line being drawn. The use of the term seed implies something Holy in the reproductive fluid of Jews.

But is it racism? God didn't "pick" the Jews. Abraham found favor in the eyes of the Lord. God said that Abraham's faith in Him was counted to Abraham for righteousness. God found a good man that worshipped Him and blessed him for it.

[ray]

You really need to define 'racism'. Is it hatred of another race? Thinking they are different? Thinking they are not as good? Whether or not you think that passage is raceist depends on your definition.

Ray

[Cheesypie]

Alot of those people were ostracized because their cultures' beliefs were tainted, not their race.?

What does this have to do with the forced expulsion of children and spouses who may have converted?

They hadn't converted.

There is no option for conversion offered to them.

They had years to convert, but they didn't convert.

There is nowhere in the Old Testament that I have seen where pagans were given a chance to be educated in Judaism let alone convert. There are no instances of Israelites preaching God's laws outside Israel and that is because they were never told to.

[Cheesypie]

Would you explain what is objectively and universally wrong with racism.

In modern moral terms, as well as modern theological terms, racism of any sort is viewed as sinful. Things such as racial segregation, laws against miscegnation, white-only organizations and the sort that were common in the United States until well into the 1960s as such. I know of no Christian church that views this kind of thing as non-sinful.

[Cheesypie]

There is a clear genetic line being drawn. The use of the term seed implies something Holy in the reproductive fluid of Jews.

But is it racism? God didn't "pick" the Jews. Abraham found favor in the eyes of the Lord. God said that Abraham's faith in Him was counted to Abraham for righteousness. God found a good man that worshipped Him and blessed him for it.

Like Ive already stated, when you segregate yourself from others due to their being of a different "seed" or way of life you are almost universally branded as a racist. Even more so when you believe that you can enslave people outside of your own ethnic/racial background or lend to them at usurious rates.

[AttentionKMartShoppers]

Were not Jews slaves of Jews? I mean, ancient slavery wasn't based on race, it was based on economic conditions, war, and probably much more...but it was never one race enslaving another. Also, every seven years slaves were released.

And the Jews couldn't mingle with non-Jews because when they did, they always screwed up and practiced some pagan religion...

[Jbuza]

I see. what I meant was that God picked Abraham to bless not because he was superior, and other people were less worthy, not because he was from a paticular family, but because he obeyed and worshipped God, so God promised to give this blessing to him and his decendants.

It was a reward to a servant, and that's what it was. Besides Jesus said that any man can come, so I don't think enlightenment is solely for the Jews, but they are the decendants of the man that God blessed for his faithfulness and obedience

[Mystical]

There is nowhere in the Old Testament where pagans were given a chance to be educated in Judaism let alone convert.

I don't think you're right on that. Maybe you've misunderstood what you read.

[AttentionKMartShoppers]

There is nowhere in the Old Testament where pagans were given a chance to be educated in Judaism let alone convert.

I don't think you're right on that. Maybe you've misunderstood what you read.

WOW...he said that?! lol