Evidence for God from Science

is it sinful to commit acts (either physically or mentally) that may arouse a person sexually? even if the fetishes arent really considered immoral, such as fetishes for inanimate objects, etc...

I think it depends on what you are thinking about for purposes of arousal. Also, fetish implies an unhealthy preoccupation with an object, idea, being. If it is unhealthy, it is wrong. But, some fetishes can be harmless (e.g. liking intercourse more if you are wearing a Santa hat); (if you can enjoy sex only if you are wearing a Santa hat then it is wrong).

So is it sinful if you like intercourse more while wearing a hat? or being handcuffed? or having your pets watch?

I think I already answered that. On the animal part though, I think it would be wrong. Because they aren't inanimate objects, requiring their interaction if even to heighten pleasure is lustful and I think admonished by the bible.

You can list some verses from the Bible that supports that^?

I could if I tried really hard to find them! I don't know where to find them off the top of my head, but I will look for you.

ok... so would you say arousal through fetishes is a result of Satan's perversion, or a result of a person's mind/psychology?

They're a result of the drepavity of man influenced by both his nature and within the natural realm.

As far as I've seen the only teaching on sex is to not commit fornication or adultery. The Bible does indicate that a man is defiled by sex and that it is good to maintain your virginity and worship God, but that if a man cannot control himself than he should find a wife to avoid fornication. The Bible also does talk about the natural use of a woman, and therby the natural use of the man.

With reguards to beastiality
NEAr the end of Exodus or begining of Liviticus, God decreed through his servant Moses that if a man was cought having sex with an animal the man and the animal were to be put to death, their is also a decree there that says the same of woman.

Lev. 18:23, thats where it is.

Exodus 22:19
Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.

Leviticus 18:23 (Whole Chapter)
Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.


Leviticus 20:15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.


Leviticus 20:16 And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Ok here's the thing that has bothered me.
for a long time issues relating to this one and relating to drinking of alcahol have been my struggles because they seem so wishy washy and the answer i seem to get alwasy appear to have an agenda behind them and that kinda gets me a lil urked. i understand people are still people and i want to be patient its just hard cuz i wanna do what god wants.

Anyway,

I think for us as humans to try and sit here and rationalize what is or isnt a healthy or unhealthy fetish is an absolute abomination itself. To think we can decide what is ultimatley ok is foolish. To lust after anything whther it be sexually thinking of woman, man, beast is wrong outside of marriage. Since one cannot marry an animal or same sex partner, those are automatically ruled out - Not to mention the fact that the bible teaches us that beastiality and homosexuality are sinful.

Once in a marriage..im not so sure. while im sure god wants us to enjoy sex...im not so sure how far we should take it. its been a hard one for me to tackle since if sex is indeed a sacred gift that only comes into play once married...then how do we justify such selfish or just plain weird sex act such as cuffs or...o man, having your pets watch? wow. not my cat...sheesh and i thought i was weird...

anyway...i guess im still confused myself but it is a good question...love is selfless, or at least god wants it to be...so to think that the love you share with you're spouse isnt enough is pretty bad....im sorry but i just dont believe that

also, the whole go grab yourself a woman if you just cant go on w/o sex is such a crime. i am offended personally when i hear it referred to that way. bible times were much different back then and women were regarded as much lower beings back then period. jesus often took outwardly stands for women and while im no feminist(feminish bleh) i do believe that in this day and age we should not use the way women used to be treated in bible times as an excuse to make sex such a cold and selfish thing.

k i rambled a lot somebody slap meh.

There are a number of things that scripture makes quite clear are wrong. There are also many things it does not touch upon, and individual believers are left to rely upon their conscience which will testify to the unacceptability of a certain act.

When Christians start to make edicts about every single area of human behavior then we contribute to the perception that Christianity is all about rules and is jam-packed full of 'DO NOTs'.

This is the negative view of Christianity and crowds out the very positive nature of a relationship with Christ. That relationship should be a wonderful experience but is tainted when it is seen by people to be essentially about policing human behavior.

Christ is the 'author and perfector of our faith' and He will ensure that our behavior is more and more conformed to His, if only we will allow him.

Much of our sinful behavior is dealt with by the sheer act of moving closer to Christ. There are things I used to want to do that were wrong but now I no longer wish to do them, and so I don't. And if we bring all of ourselves to Christ (including all of our actions and desires) then he is able to set us free from negative behaviors and many things will simply drop away from us. But I believe there are things that we will struggle, and travail to be free from, and there is much to gained and learnt from that journey.

It is through reading the scriptures, prayer and being in proper relationship with Christ that allows the light to be shone into our lives, highlighting those murkier parts that require change.

Whether someone enjoys sex more with their socks on seems to be an area that is between them and Christ. And for different people the answer may vary. For some it may be entirely innocent, but for others it may be a symptom of some deeper perversion or mental abberation - let the Holy Spirit reveal the truth of the subject.

Having said that, (and I am quite open to being corrected), the word fetish means the following:

1. An object of unreasonably excessive attention or reverence: made a fetish of punctuality.
2. Something, such as a material object or a nonsexual part of the body, that arouses sexual desire and may become necessary for sexual gratification.
3. An abnormally obsessive preoccupation or attachment; a fixation.

I think for the purposes of this discussion that we are talking about 2 or 3.

If I were applying this to my behavior then I would clearly be uncomfortable with 'a material object or non-sexual part of the body' that became necessary for sexual gratification. I would be uncomfortable with 'material objects or non sexual parts of the body' arousing (on their own) sexual desire.

I would be more comfortable with 'a material object (such as lingerie)' heightening sexual pleasure, as long as my wife was comfortable and my conscience was not telling me there was an issue.

As for 'non-sexual parts of the body' - the question is what is non-sexual? The ears are not normally considered sexual, but having one nibbled can be very arousing. So it is a question of definition. I would say that the anus is probably the only part of the body (that although people obviously do find it sexually stimulating) should not be a sexual part of the body, for obvious reasons.


As for number 3 - I would think that anything that causes an obsession or fixation is problematic because the obsession makes us subject to it instead of all things being subject to us. It is a question of self control.


So I said we should not always legislate behavior and then I have gone on to do it. Oh well


Regards,

Blacknad.

Well blacknads, ya bring up a few really good points. Adhearance to a single idea or a bunch of rules and negativity will not give you a full scope on all that is our relationship with christ. but, i think you might be goin off too much on what you feel is ok or what your conscious will tell you. God gives us free choice, because he loves us, So, to say that ill just go all willy nilly and not try to gain truth THROUGH KNOWLEDGE NOT PRAYER, would just be silly. And knowledge of course is gained by his word...wisdom comes with life experienebnce talking to others etc.

So, while i agre its probably not a good idea to focus on the negative so much, i do believe that when we except christ he calls us to a higher standard of living. this in turn is how we show others that we are different and how we might witness to them..although this particular thing maybe not so much but u get the idea. Sanctification i spose you might call it.

Who am i to decide what feels ok must be ok? Who am i to decide what is or isnt wrong? i think we must try our best not to keep things so reletive because everybody's goin to disagree. What i mean by this is often in our culture we tend to call out the blatant evils for what they are...evil. but i think the most evil that can manifest is what there is something small...something that allow us to compromise because it is then that the devil has won. point being, we should be on our god. i believe a way of doing this could come by loving one's spouse. a selfless love that need no external influence be it a whip or even some kinda fancy smacy underwear. yes thats the way its been done for a long time but that fact alone in no way makes it ok.

i apologize for my rantings, again...and for those of you who have acually read this far..go out and by urself somethin nice....you deserve it lol

Kinky would be a feather.

Perverted is the whole chicken.

A lot of this really gets into the Corinthian admonition to examine your own conscience. There are some situational things to consider.

Alchohol is a case in point. It is not prohibited in scripture, but drunkeness certainly is. For an alcoholic, complete abstenance may be required. My care for those I love is such that there may be times it is permissable for me to have a drink, but I choose not to do so out of love and deference for their sensitivities or to avoid leading them into temptation. I'm not an alcoholic. I'm allowed, but I choose not to.

Sex when you enter the area of fetishes, is much like alcohol in that regard. It's not necessarily wrong in and of itself but possible to lead to an addiction or dependence in myslef or a temptation to someone else for whom it will become problematical.

Satan works with many allowable things. Food, Sex, Mind-altering substances, alcohol etc. The rationalization is that it is not forbidden and then he twists it into something that takes it outside its intended purposes and context and makes it a focus or need in out lives to where we elevate it to a distraction at best, an addiction or fetish at worst. What is normal and healthy then diminishes in importance and we are out of balance.

My general approach, and it is not perfect by any means, is anything that elevates a person into use as an object for my own gratification absent the context of a genuine, caring relationship within the scriptural boundaries of such a relationship is not healthy for me. Whether you want to argue it is sin or not misses the point. Some things allowable are not necessarily profitable. I can't make that decision for someone else until their behavior crosses certain boundaries. I can make it for myself however, and I've regretted more things done than undone in this area.

I find that works for me as a standard, allows me to maintain equalibrium and avoids legalism.