Evidence for God from Science

There wont be any evil in heaven, so will that mean no free will?

According to christianity the only way to get into heaven is to give up ones' own will and to replace it with that of gods'.

The real question is:

To be or not to be?

The thought of loving you throughout all eternity makes me sick.

Not to be.

If you want to question your question further then I would refer to when christ says, there are many mansions in my fathers' house.
Every household has its' own rules--and that is true to life.

There is a christian arrogance in assuming that the mystery of life is solved upon death.
If the will ceases then experience ceases. If experience ceases then what is the point of life-eternal?

Can the infinite be compacted into one supreme will? Or is all will a portion of the whole(infinite)?

THERE is NO NATURAL RELIGION





I Mans perceptions are not bounded by organs of perception. he
percieves more than sense (tho' ever so acute) can discover.
II Reason or the ratio of all we have already known. is not
the same that it shall be when we know more.
[III lacking]
IV The bounded is loathed by its possessor. The same dull
round even of a univere would soon become a mill with
complicated wheels.
V If the many become the same as the few, when possess'd,
More! More! is the cry of a mistaken soul, less than All cannot
satisfy Man.
VI If any could desire what he is incapable of possessing,
despair must be his eternal lot.


VII The desire of Man being Infinite the possession is Infinite
& himself Infinite
Conclusion, If it were not for the Poetic or Prophetic
character. the Philosophic & Experimental would soon be at the
ratio of all things & stand still, unable to do other than repeat
the same dull round over again
Application. He who sees the Infinite in all things sees
God. He who sees the Ratio only sees himself only.


--William Blake, There is no natuaral religion.

JP Holding has a good article on this: http://www.tektonics.org/tulip/pers.html

According to christianity the only way to get into heaven is to give up ones' own will and to replace it with that of gods'.

Maybe so. However, the argument for Adam & Eve's use of free will is that God had to make them that way.

That he did not want "robots" in the popular parlance.

Does this mean that dwellers in Heaven are "robots"?

mick wrote:

According to christianity the only way to get into heaven is to give up ones' own will and to replace it with that of gods'.

Maybe so. However, the argument for Adam & Eve's use of free will is that God had to make them that way.

That he did not want "robots" in the popular parlance.

Does this mean that dwellers in Heaven are "robots"?

I will remind you that the devil is also a fallen angel. I guess it was his choice to become so. Will we have free will to chose to stay with God or not? Absolutely. Will anyone chose to leave? Well, consider the alternative and you decide.

Good point Byblos

Byblos wrote:I will remind you that the devil is also a fallen angel. I guess it was his choice to become so. Will we have free will to chose to stay with God or not? Absolutely. Will anyone chose to leave? Well, consider the alternative and you decide.

That makes it sound like we want to get to heaven to avoid hell, not because we desire direct God's presence.

Maybe it would be better to say that heaven is so friggin' good that the thought to want to leave never even occurs.

Forge wrote:

Byblos wrote:I will remind you that the devil is also a fallen angel. I guess it was his choice to become so. Will we have free will to chose to stay with God or not? Absolutely. Will anyone chose to leave? Well, consider the alternative and you decide.

That makes it sound like we want to get to heaven to avoid hell, not because we desire direct God's presence.

Maybe it would be better to say that heaven is so friggin' good that the thought to want to leave never even occurs.

Point conceded, Forge. But I won't argue with wanting to go to heaven so we can avoid hell either (as an addendum to being with God). In any case, the original question was whether or not we will have free will in heaven (point being if not, then are we not like robots?). My reply was to show that it will always be our choice to be with God (my mediocre phrasing notwithstanding).

Heres what i think.

God created souls, angels etc with free will. And some turned bad, so he decided that he would put us all on earth to see if we would turn bad or good. Which is why the good go to heaven and the evil go to hell, which means the sorting doesnt have to be held in heaven, because it has already been done on earth, and you will now end up with only good souls/anges in heaven, and noone in heaven will turn evil or want to, which means there is free will in heaven, but not for things like being evil. Just everything else.

are you saying that the 'souls' are humans, and that we were once already in Heaven with God, then turned evil and were cast down onto the earth as a test? if that is what you are saying, that is wrong. Hell was created as a place of eternal torment for the demons and Satan. Man was created in the Garden of Eden perfect, were we sined, but we were not in Heaven, but on Earh.

ryo dokomi wrote:are you saying that the 'souls' are humans, and that we were once already in Heaven with God, then turned evil and were cast down onto the earth as a test? if that is what you are saying, that is wrong. Hell was created as a place of eternal torment for the demons and Satan. Man was created in the Garden of Eden perfect, were we sined, but we were not in Heaven, but on Earh.

I completley agree.

I also think there IS free will in heaven, or if there isn't, then Lucifer and one third of the angels woul've never fought against God.

ryo dokomi wrote:are you saying that the 'souls' are humans, and that we were once already in Heaven with God, then turned evil and were cast down onto the earth as a test? if that is what you are saying, that is wrong. Hell was created as a place of eternal torment for the demons and Satan. Man was created in the Garden of Eden perfect, were we sined, but we were not in Heaven, but on Earh.

No no no. I meant we got put here for a test before anyone turned evil so all that gets done on earth, not in Heaven, so now heaven is free of evil

Species_8472 wrote:According to christianity the only way to get into heaven is to give up ones' own will and to replace it with that of gods'.

Cheesh. IF you believe that I can hardley figure how you would want to be or could be a Chrsitian. I think it is that holier than thou attitude. Surely you must realize that Chrsitians are people also. Surely you must have had enough experience with people to realize how people are. I am never to amazed at the things people do, because I am one. It is human nature that determines what it is a human wills to do. The Bible says that flesh is sinful, and that Chrsitians will receive a new body (Flesh?).

I also think that we will have free will in heaven. I think we will have a God like nature and not have fleshly desires. Honour God and Love your neighbor, perhaps those are the rules of the many houses.

Species_8472 wrote:According to christianity the only way to get into heaven is to give up ones' own will and to replace it with that of gods'.

Ok, lets examine, what exactly is God's will?

God- Love and Peace- results in- Life and Fellowship

man- hate and war- results in- death and destruction



1Jo 2:16 For3 all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jo 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth forever.

God wants man to have fellowship with him in light and love, peace and hapiness for all eternity.

Only the people that don't want to abide by God's laws will suffer the second death. Their choice.

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Rom 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light.
Rom 13:13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof.

Praise The Lord!

satan would have us all beleive God's will is to take the fun out of our lives, that couldn't be further from the truth.

Joh 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Do not beleive the lies, believe the Truth!

God Bless.

Jbuza wrote:

Species_8472 wrote:According to christianity the only way to get into heaven is to give up ones' own will and to replace it with that of gods'.

Cheesh. IF you believe that I can hardley figure how you would want to be or could be a Chrsitian. I think it is that holier than thou attitude. Surely you must realize that Chrsitians are people also. Surely you must have had enough experience with people to realize how people are. I am never to amazed at the things people do, because I am one. It is human nature that determines what it is a human wills to do. The Bible says that flesh is sinful, and that Chrsitians will receive a new body (Flesh?).

I also think that we will have free will in heaven. I think we will have a God like nature and not have fleshly desires. Honour God and Love your neighbor, perhaps those are the rules of the many houses.

QFT

Best reply in the thread. Based on this, I'd say that our will in heaven will be more free than it is now. Cf. Rom. 7:14-25.
God bless