Philosophy of life, thereal version

[Believer]

It's my opinion that since we are now recording things such as genomes, we are now in the best position to start seeing macroevolution firsthand, but we are at the the starting line of a long, long race. This will all be settled in a mere 100,000 years!

And you couldn't be wrong!? The thing is, one person who starts a theory will add more people that becomes the longest fad to exist, therefore, I believe that those people of your kind (atheist evolutionists), will FIND what they WANT to make their theory work, and then publish all this stuff on it for the public to read. Basically, make an airtight theory that no one can break, even though it could be more false than what is commonly thought. In my reading experiences, too many science magazines and science journals already claim evolution is a FACT just like the company Clone-Aid, officials said they cloned the world's first human years ago. They offered evidence, but no facts, but they got tons of media attention. And this was built around the theory that cloning people is possible, but it was all faked. It was a decievement, like something that satan can very well do, as you know, or should know, he is the prince of this earth, and I find the same with your atheist evolution. Do you think that all of us as humans, although the same, a human, but with differences, is an accident? Do you like calling yourself an accident with no hope but on earth for no reason? You think that people who have spontaneous healings or miracles is caused by the accidental evolution working in them? My dad being a medical doctor knows this can't be true, although he does admit one day it could be discovered what caused it, but WHY?

[thereal]

And you couldn't be wrong!?

Of course, I could be wrong...I simply made my own personal decision on the best available evidence. Do I sense a double standard, wherein you expect me to say I could be wrong but you cannot?

I believe that those people of your kind (atheist evolutionists), will FIND what they WANT to make their theory work, and then publish all this stuff on it for the public to read

As I stated in a previous post, within the scientific community there is little need to PROVE evolution to other scientists...it it perhaps one of the most widely supported theories known, it's right up there with that THEORY of gravity! You make it seem like the "atheist scientists" will not budge for anything, but legitimate debate is happening all the time within science. Granted, it's not whether evolution is real or not, but the fine-tuned mechanisms and whether or not certain scenarios constitute evolution. Maybe you take the lack of an introductory statement of ToE's validity before every research article as insinuating it is a fact, but no self-respecting scientist would say evolution is a fact. And if ever a legitimate alternative theory arose, there would be scores of scientists trampling over each other to investigate it...the door is not shut, but we have only one well-supported avenue of investigation currently.

Do you think that all of us as humans, although the same, a human, but with differences, is an accident? Do you like calling yourself an accident with no hope but on earth for no reason?

An accident implies something that happened that shouldn't have...I prefer to think I'm an organism that developed in such a way to best survive my environment....I have no problem with that. It seems that those who yell the loudest about being put here for a reason are often the least to justify it.

You think that people who have spontaneous healings or miracles is caused by the accidental evolution working in them?

They said it was a miracle when David Copperfield walked through the Great Wall of China too. But seriously, I find it interesting you bring up medicine, for many things that used to be attributed to items of spirituality ("demonic possession, bodily disharmony") were later shown to be physical ailments cured by the "atheist scientists". It always strikes me as odd that scientists are embraced when they're curing diseases or figuring out how to give you more miles per gallon, but they dare not provide observations in contrast with a book possibly written by some men some years back.

It was a decievement, like something that satan can very well do, as you know, or should know, he is the prince of this earth, and I find the same with your atheist evolution.

Is that like when the Shroud of Turin was shown to be fake...is it that kind of deception? By the way, I never stated I was an atheist as you insinuate...I'm just not willing to buy into an idea with no visible evidence simply because others do. My own personal belief (if you care)...the beginning of the universe is the only case where something unexplainable happened...not the Big Bang, mind you (which is often deemed to be the start of our present galaxy)...the moment where something came from nothing to create everything. However, this does not justify omnipotence, immortality, etc, or a "God" in any sense of the word. I won't say I don't or won't ever believe in a God. The only thing I can say for sure is that I can't say what happened in "the beginning"...however, I'm comforted knowing that no else can say either, despite what I often hear in religious circles.

[Ark~Magic]

An accident implies something that happened that shouldn't have...I prefer to think I'm an organism that developed in such a way to best survive my environment....I have no problem with that. It seems that those who yell the loudest about being put here for a reason are often the least to justify it.

"You're just a meaningless bundle of flesh with neurons in it and when I cut you off and deactivate your functions you'll become my food and I'll trash your bones, which will restore the earth with your ash. I see nothing stopping me from doing so." (speaking from a Godless perspective)

Jeffrey Dahmer was an atheist and rightfully killed his victims because his beliefs couldn't back up any reason for him not to. This is where defining man by evolutionary standards (which is cultic, IMO) is dangerous. Life is what you make it, in this case. This is the same belief that communism was founded on. These 'good' atheists can hold religious beliefs about what they think people should be doing with life and how to be 'moral' but it is a weak, failed philosophy. Just look at what happened with Liberal, Missouri (the town).

[Believer]

And you couldn't be wrong!?

Of course, I could be wrong...I simply made my own personal decision on the best available evidence. Do I sense a double standard, wherein you expect me to say I could be wrong but you cannot?

I am not stating you are wrong, but you push it to make it look right and a fact.

I believe that those people of your kind (atheist evolutionists), will FIND what they WANT to make their theory work, and then publish all this stuff on it for the public to read

As I stated in a previous post, within the scientific community there is little need to PROVE evolution to other scientists...it it perhaps one of the most widely supported theories known, it's right up there with that THEORY of gravity! You make it seem like the "atheist scientists" will not budge for anything, but legitimate debate is happening all the time within science. Granted, it's not whether evolution is real or not, but the fine-tuned mechanisms and whether or not certain scenarios constitute evolution. Maybe you take the lack of an introductory statement of ToE's validity before every research article as insinuating it is a fact, but no self-respecting scientist would say evolution is a fact. And if ever a legitimate alternative theory arose, there would be scores of scientists trampling over each other to investigate it...the door is not shut, but we have only one well-supported avenue of investigation currently.

Interesting...

Do you think that all of us as humans, although the same, a human, but with differences, is an accident? Do you like calling yourself an accident with no hope but on earth for no reason?

An accident implies something that happened that shouldn't have...I prefer to think I'm an organism that developed in such a way to best survive my environment....I have no problem with that. It seems that those who yell the loudest about being put here for a reason are often the least to justify it.

You are avoiding the question, I don't care if you think you are an "organism that developed in such a way to best survive my environment", I am asking you, are YOU an accident, that just happened to come about by 100% chance and it being "something that happened that shouldn't have" without any supernatural force acting upon it?

You think that people who have spontaneous healings or miracles is caused by the accidental evolution working in them?

They said it was a miracle when David Copperfield walked through the Great Wall of China too. But seriously, I find it interesting you bring up medicine, for many things that used to be attributed to items of spirituality ("demonic possession, bodily disharmony") were later shown to be physical ailments cured by the "atheist scientists". It always strikes me as odd that scientists are embraced when they're curing diseases or figuring out how to give you more miles per gallon, but they dare not provide observations in contrast with a book possibly written by some men some years back.

Um, yeah, not talking about magicians here buddy. There are studies that do not deny the possibility of spiritual influence. There is some wealth of it on the net. And I again I ask, do you think that people who have spontaneous healings or miracles is caused by the accidental evolution working in them?

It was a decievement, like something that satan can very well do, as you know, or should know, he is the prince of this earth, and I find the same with your atheist evolution.

Is that like when the Shroud of Turin was shown to be fake...is it that kind of deception? By the way, I never stated I was an atheist as you insinuate...I'm just not willing to buy into an idea with no visible evidence simply because others do. My own personal belief (if you care)...the beginning of the universe is the only case where something unexplainable happened...not the Big Bang, mind you (which is often deemed to be the start of our present galaxy)...the moment where something came from nothing to create everything. However, this does not justify omnipotence, immortality, etc, or a "God" in any sense of the word. I won't say I don't or won't ever believe in a God. The only thing I can say for sure is that I can't say what happened in "the beginning"...however, I'm comforted knowing that no else can say either, despite what I often hear in religious circles.

Please provide your evidence or proof that the Shroud of Turin is fake besides what some guy said about a way it COULD have been done in the medieval ages. But I still find it funny that you atheists, and you are, take science as the ultimate truth to everything. Besides, the Bible, (you know the one you say was created by men waaaay back then that weren't that knowledgable, but all books fit in harmony), how do you explain this? Even Jesus himself DID NOT say that demonic possession existed, the writers did. You deny Jesus, you deny God, you deny it all except for your science. You are an atheist, deal with it, I am a theist, and I will deal with that. You are the people that want Holidays banned such as Christmas, you want everything religious taken down, well why don't you bite the bullet and not look at those things. Look away, really, because the truth hurts.

[thereal]

"You're just a meaningless bundle of flesh with neurons in it and when I cut you off and deactivate your functions you'll become my food and I'll trash your bones, which will restore the earth with your ash. I see nothing stopping me from doing so." (speaking from a Godless perspective)

Just because I believe that we are simply flesh and bone does not mean I believe life is meaningless...in my field (ecology), jobs are typically low-paying and meaning comes from a genuine passion for your work. I am proud of this aspect of my profession, considering the amount of people who are fueled professionally by money. My meaning in life is to be a good researcher, a good brother, a good son, and a good person in general. Maybe I had better parents than most, but I don't need a book or a religion to tell me how to do this. I would never tell someone else that God does or not exist (as no one knows), so therefore I don't expect anyone to tell me I'm wrong for questioning something for which there is no proof.

This is where defining man by evolutionary standards (which is cultic, IMO) is dangerous

Many say that organized religions are simply cults with larger followings.

These 'good' atheists can hold religious beliefs about what they think people should be doing with life and how to be 'moral' but it is a weak, failed philosophy. Just look at what happened with Liberal, Missouri (the town).

I really don't think the religious right has any room to cast stones towards other groups for holding thoughts of how life should be lived. Liberal, Missouri did not fail because the philosophy failed, but rather because it was overrun by religious fanatics who couldn't tolerate the idea of a place with freedom from religion. I've seen this myself while working in poverty-stricken regions of Central America...missionaries arrive and start teaching what Christianity believes...which is fine if you leave it up to the person to make a decision. What I've seen though borders on abuse...those who chose not to believe in Christianity were verbally berated, ostracized by the community at the advice of the missionaries, and ultimately told they should move elsewhere because, as they put it "this was Christian place now". Religion appears to be the womb of forcing ideas upon one another. Maybe my experiences with Christianity are atypical, but it has left me jaded with an air of hypocrisy concerning how we should treat people and live our lives in general.

It's interesting you brought up communism, though, because it pretty well-known that a society following the true tenets of communism has never existed. There is always a fly in the ointment that gives the bad examples we have. Socialism, however, which is a step lower on the continuum from capitalism to communism, is quite successful in many countries, and these countries are often superior in terms of population growth, standardized test scores, scholarly research, and a steady-state economy.

[Believer]

Give up Ark~Magic, anything you say to this atheist will not affect one part of him. Obviously he knows that he is a pile of useless information that is an accident for a reason of no reason. A reason to exist with no purpose. As he stated he is an organism, he did not call himself a human, I would think organisms belong in a lab being tested and prodded to do experiments on. USELESS, PILE OF EMOTIONS, NO PURPOSE, ACCIDENT, CHEMICALS, NOTHING BUT A NOTHING, CHANCE.

[thereal]

You are avoiding the question, I don't care if you think you are an "organism that developed in such a way to best survive my environment", I am asking you, are YOU an accident, that just happened to come about by 100% chance and it being "something that happened that shouldn't have" without any supernatural force acting upon it?

I have no problem dealing with the fact that my existence is due to chance alone. I don't have to feel that a god created me to feel that I have value.

There are studies that do not deny the possibility of spiritual influence. There is some wealth of it on the net.

Please, provide some non-web sources of this. As I stated earlier, internet is an unregulated medium, allowing people to post anything they want.

Please provide your evidence or proof that the Shroud of Turin is fake besides what some guy said about a way it COULD have been done in the medieval ages.

That was a low blow, I admit it, but I only said this to illustrate that there is error on both sides of every debate. As with any theory, I can't prove it, but the evidence comes from the observation that dying (and I believe construction, but I'm not sure) processes used to create the Shroud were as yet unknow during the time Christ was hypothesized to have lived. I will look for the actual articles, though.

You are the people that want Holidays banned such as Christmas, you want everything religious taken down, well why don't you bite the bullet and not look at those things.

I don't care if religious items are displayed, as long as it's not on buildings that everyone's (and people of every religion) tax money funds. And even if I could tolerate it, shouldn't we also provide displays for other forms of worship (Bhuddism, Islam, Native American religions, Judaism, witchcraft, satanic worship (they're religions too)). Would you have a problem with every Christmas tree in front of courthouses, libraries, goverment offices, etc. being replaced by a giant display celebrating Kwanzaa? The simple truth is that Christians are the majority whenit comes to religion, they've got their way for far too long, and now the unfairness of what appears to be state-sponsored religion is being called into question.

[Ark~Magic]

Here's something...

None of this matters at the moment. The fact is that:
1) the bible has been shown to be in harmony with science
2) the christian system has provided a powerful unmatched philosophy

If you can agree with it, why despise it? Of course many things may be taken on faith but I still don't see why anyone would despise our religion, maybe there ARE some people who are hypocritical but that doesn't invalidate our teachings.

So [love] off.

[Believer]

You are avoiding the question, I don't care if you think you are an "organism that developed in such a way to best survive my environment", I am asking you, are YOU an accident, that just happened to come about by 100% chance and it being "something that happened that shouldn't have" without any supernatural force acting upon it?

I have no problem dealing with the fact that my existence is due to chance alone. I don't have to feel that a god created me to feel that I have value.

Okay, you are chance then.

There are studies that do not deny the possibility of spiritual influence. There is some wealth of it on the net.

Please, provide some non-web sources of this. As I stated earlier, internet is an unregulated medium, allowing people to post anything they want.

Okay, so by your means that the "internet is an unregulated medium, allowing people to post anything they want", then that also applies for evolution. Also I wouldn't say that all information is false, the information on real websites through research can be validated, but how science DEMANDS it be in a journal, is kinda asking too much.

Please provide your evidence or proof that the Shroud of Turin is fake besides what some guy said about a way it COULD have been done in the medieval ages.

That was a low blow, I admit it, but I only said this to illustrate that there is error on both sides of every debate. As with any theory, I can't prove it, but the evidence comes from the observation that dying (and I believe construction, but I'm not sure) processes used to create the Shroud were as yet unknow during the time Christ was hypothesized to have lived. I will look for the actual articles, though.

Again by your means of information on the internet, anyone can post whatever they want. Your searches are invalid then, by your definition.

You are the people that want Holidays banned such as Christmas, you want everything religious taken down, well why don't you bite the bullet and not look at those things.

I don't care if religious items are displayed, as long as it's not on buildings that everyone's (and people of every religion) tax money funds. And even if I could tolerate it, shouldn't we also provide displays for other forms of worship (Buddism, Islam, Native American religions, Judaism, witchcraft, satanic worship (they're religions too)). Would you have a problem with every Christmas tree in front of courthouses, libraries, goverment offices, etc. being replaced by a giant display celebrating Kwanzaa? The simple truth is that Christians are the majority whenit comes to religion, they've got their way for far too long, and now the unfairness of what appears to be state-sponsored religion is being called into question.

Okay, so then we should replace Christmas with Winter Solstice? You think it is fair to say "we atheists get to stab you in the back" because this is a real tradition over a real event? Besides, United States was found upon Judeo-Christian roots, not Islam, not Buddhism, not Hinduism, Christian. So you agree that atheism should dominate the U.S. and beyond? (Someone call a militant Muslim in, we got some accidental cleaning to do).

[Mystical]

Wow. I now understand why many non-Christians dislike Christianity. Almost nothing I've read in this thread demonstrates God's love and none of it proves he exists at all. If I was a searcher, the only thing I'd take away from this thread is "God and love is a hoax."

[Believer]

Wow. I now understand why many non-Christians dislike Christianity. Almost nothing I've read in this thread demonstrates God's love and none of it proves he exists at all. If I was a searcher, the only thing I'd take away from this thread is "God and love is a hoax."

Atheists do it to us all the time since the dawn of time, would demonstrating God's love to an atheist convert them? Not really. We defend, and I like to think more that atheists are agitating Christians on purpose to create a nation of secularism and point fingers and say "ha! we got you, and there is nothing you can do about it!". Atheistic people may show love, but they are mean a lot of the time even confronting them, with all their excessive cussing, drinking, shooting, etc... tons of bad stuff. Atheists have their master plan, they are winning, they are agitating Christians to death to make it look like it is our fault.

[Mystical]

Atheists do it to us all the time...

I know. That is because they do not know God's love. It is up to us to help spread that love.

...would demonstrating God's love to an atheist convert them?

And now these three remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love. 1Corinthians:13

If you can't hope for their souls, if you can't show them love, what have we learned from Jesus?

Atheists have their master plan, they are winning...

The bible tells us they don't win. God will.

[thereal]

None of this matters at the moment. The fact is that:
1) the bible has been shown to be in harmony with science
2) the christian system has provided a powerful unmatched philosophy

If you can agree with it, why despise it? Of course many things may be taken on faith but I still don't see why anyone would despise our religion, maybe there ARE some people who are hypocritical but that doesn't invalidate our teachings.

For argument #1, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree, because I still do not understand how you think the bible has been shown to be in harmony with scientific observations.

For argument #2, I don't quite understand what you mean by unmatched philosophy...there are other religions in the world. Are you saying that because Christianity represents the majority that it is unmatched.

I do, however, agree with the notion that the Bible is a good teaching tool...if the message boils down to "how to be a good person" and it actually works. I went to church at least twice a week until I was in my late teens and have read much of the Bible, so it's not like I don't have a religious background. However, I have also found many people attending churches that I attended to be bigoted, intolerant, hypocritical people on every day but Sunday. Maybe it's just where I grew up, but the overall message I recieved from religion was "do as I say and not as I do". Other religions also use teachings of how to be a good person, yet one religion continually insinuates the other will suffer damnation...if the goal is to be a good person, what difference does it make how you get there?

Atheistic people may show love, but they are mean a lot of the time even confronting them, with all their excessive cussing, drinking, shooting, etc... tons of bad stuff.

You MUST be joking...or living in the old west!

[Ark~Magic]

[This Post has been censored for Language]

[Believer]

Atheistic people may show love, but they are mean a lot of the time even confronting them, with all their excessive cussing, drinking, shooting, etc... tons of bad stuff.

You MUST be joking...or living in the old west!

Nope, I strongly believe it has to do more with atheists, like you, than believers. And what is with your Jon Stewart avatar, are you a wannabe of him? Dude, just leave, you came here for no-purpose but to once again like prior people, claim you know it all.