Evidence for God from Science

Hi all, Dean from Southern California here, 40-something, work in finance. Happened across the site a few days ago and have enjoyed reading some of the material.

I am a Christian, but admittedly have always had major questions that (it would seem) should be easier to answer....! I haven't had a chance to wander the message board much, so not looking for the following to be answered here...but some of my biggest questions are:

1. Why this massive universe for no apparent reason other than giving a few humans a chance to decide between good and evil?

2. If the universe is for some other purpose, why is it mostly "junk"? (No disrespect intended....it's beautiful, but full of dust etc.)

3. No matter how many explanations I've heard, I still struggle with the idea of God allowing children to be abused/tortured/murdered. Adults....heck, we deserve it (wry grin), but kids....

Anyway, I will enjoy reading some of the threads that address these and other issues.

Sorry for the ramble!


"Former" favorite quote: "Since I gave up hope, I feel much better." (':lol:')

Journeyman wrote:Hi all, Dean from Southern California here, 40-something, work in finance. Happened across the site a few days ago and have enjoyed reading some of the material.

Hello Dean, and welcome to the board. I too am 43 and work in financial software development (I guess we have many things in common).

Journeyman wrote:I am a Christian, but admittedly have always had major questions that (it would seem) should be easier to answer....! I haven't had a chance to wander the message board much, so not looking for the following to be answered here...but some of my biggest questions are:

Not sure you'll be able to find direct answers to your questions. You will certainly find a lot of varying opinions. You will have to sort them out and make the best out of them.

Journeyman wrote:1. Why this massive universe for no apparent reason other than giving a few humans a chance to decide between good and evil?

Wow! That's a rather deep question to which no answer will seem adequate enough. It is an awesome universe though. To me, it only serves to solidify my belief in God, however complex or hidden His purpose is.

Journeyman wrote:2. If the universe is for some other purpose, why is it mostly "junk"? (No disrespect intended....it's beautiful, but full of dust etc.)

Well personally, I do see a purpose in it so I can't answer that. But I'm sure others can give their insights.

Journeyman wrote:3. No matter how many explanations I've heard, I still struggle with the idea of God allowing children to be abused/tortured/murdered. Adults....heck, we deserve it (wry grin), but kids....

Another unanswerable question but think of it this way, take your struggle (or rather the struggle of a parent who has gone thru the unimaginable agony of having something like this hapen to their kids) and multiply it 10 trillion times. That would be the tip of the iceberg of God's struggle, having to witness such atrocities committed by his own children towards one another. Yet He does not interfere because doing so would invalidate our right to choose (right from wrong), to believe, to learn the value of independence, to have the free will to either choose Him or reject Him.

It's like the parents of a young toddler watching her walk for the first time. Their instincts are to rush and grab her to prevent her from falling and hurting herself. But they fight those instincts and hold back to give her the chance to learn to walk and be independent. She will probably fall and get hurt in the process but in the end, the joy of walking on her own far outweighs the pain.

I know it's a rather simplistic view but that is how I always try to see things. Hope this helps.

Journeyman wrote: 2. If the universe is for some other purpose, why is it mostly "junk"? (No disrespect intended....it's beautiful, but full of dust etc.)

well my personal opinion is it is just for us to look at and marvel, and to Glorify God. at least that is my opinion, and the only reason why i look at the stars. here is a look at some pictures that show the artistic mind of God. http://www.seasky.org/skygallery/skygallery.html
the 'deep space', and 'hubble hits' are the best ones.
hope you like it as much as i ...there is music to it too, it kinda enhances the experience...by the way, this is a normal astronmy type site, not Christian ...but its got the best pictures....

I think He put it there for our entertainment, for us to admire, for us to reach towards. Without those things, life might get pretty boring. He put something to entertain all of us: animals for the animal lovers (like me!), nature for the nature lovers (like me!); stars and planets for astronomers, scientists, and astronauts; etc.

He allows children to suffer because He allows free-will. People have to be allowed to make their own decisions. To love us truly He must allow us to be free; for us to love Him truly, we must be free--"if you love something set it free, if it comes back to you, it's yours, if it doesn't, it never was." I think that's pretty much it.

Journeyman wrote: 1. Why this massive universe for no apparent reason other than giving a few humans a chance to decide between good and evil?

Thats a little like saying the Da Vinci painted the mona lisa so that some art lovers could look at her in the museum.

I think that God made things becaused he was pleased to do it.
__

Journeyman wrote: 3. No matter how many explanations I've heard, I still struggle with the idea of God allowing children to be abused/tortured/murdered. Adults....heck, we deserve it (wry grin), but kids....

Should God then exercise the alternative and sound the trumpet? It isn't all murder and mayhem dispite what the TV indicates. God is being glroified by his work also.

I read somewhere (It was probaby from this site) that if the universe were smaller, it might not have met the requirements for the rare earth we have now...


I dont know the actual science behind that, but I can find a link to the page if you want...

1. Why this massive universe for no apparent reason other than giving a few humans a chance to decide between good and evil?

Don't forget it gives us the ability to better observe the universe. I mean, if it were only our solar system, we would never be able to detect any of the remnants of the Big Bang...we would need to work ourselves up to the level of at least several galaxies so we could do that..and, who knows, maybe it's so we can look with even more awe at the universe.

Journeyman wrote:1. Why this massive universe for no apparent reason other than giving a few humans a chance to decide between good and evil?

2. If the universe is for some other purpose, why is it mostly "junk"? (No disrespect intended....it's beautiful, but full of dust etc.)

Maybe there's a lot more than just one planet in creation with minds trying to figure between good and evil. The vastness of the universe shown by modern astronomy can make it seem quaint to think that all it comes down to is the good vs evil melodramas of our one infinitesimal speck of a little world. The sun doesn't revolve around the earth either!

Welcome to the forums.

ryo dokomi wrote:here is a look at some pictures that show the artistic mind of God. http://www.seasky.org/skygallery/skygallery.html
the 'deep space', and 'hubble hits' are the best ones.
hope you like it as much as i ...there is music to it too, it kinda enhances the experience...by the way, this is a normal astronmy type site, not Christian ...but its got the best pictures....

Many of the hubble pictures are of images invisible to the human eye. The emissions occur in the spectrum of light we are unable to see. The colors are enhancements so that we can "view" the different light emmisions.

well, i know that, but God is all-knowing. so i think that he put them there for us to find, and watch with the technology that we have today. God created all things, we didnt create anything, we just discovered it, or how to make it. He already had the Blue Prints.

Journeyman wrote:1. Why this massive universe for no apparent reason other than giving a few humans a chance to decide between good and evil?

There's so much more to the reason for our existence than this whole free-will thing, (which I personally don't subscribe to). I believe that God being who He is and like what He's like He had to create us and in a sinful world so that He could express all of His traits and... be Himself! Because God is the way He is, we must exist. He must express to someone His glory, His vengence, His justice, His love, and all His other traits. I don't buy the whole theory I've heard many times that God could be content just loving Himself, seeing as how He has three parts to Him. In fact, I'd say that He has those three parts to Himself just for our sake! He needed someone to express Himself to. Part of God's very nature is that He begats life.

Journeyman wrote:2. If the universe is for some other purpose, why is it mostly "junk"? (No disrespect intended....it's beautiful, but full of dust etc.)

Part of God expressing Himself, again. He is an artist, and our world alone, even with all of it's intracicies and complexity, probably wasn't enough! I know that God is infinite, and therefore everything finite looks the same to Him "size-wise", but part of it could be that He wanted a bigger canvas! lol No, but that's not the only reason. It is for our enjoyment and wonder as well. I'm sure He just loves it when we gaze in awe at His handiwork. It gives us a better picture of who God is, part of that being that He can take very violent things and make them beautiful. Our discovery of His handiwork is probably to Him like we are opening a gift He gave us. Little by little the wrapping paper comes off and we get a better idea of the gift He gave and of the Giver's love and care that He put into it for us. He also gave them to us for "signs" and "seasons". Order and regularity are much easier for us since we can rely on the stars for our calendars and clocks. And don't forget our bodies and all on Earth are in need of such order and regularity. Oh, and the size factor for things in the universe does make a difference for us humans. To realize just how tiny we are compared to an infinite God, yet the importance He's given us in His eyes nontheless, helps us better understand His choosing to love us, and what that incredible love is like.

Journeyman wrote:3. No matter how many explanations I've heard, I still struggle with the idea of God allowing children to be abused/tortured/murdered. Adults....heck, we deserve it (wry grin), but kids....

I'm not sure I can answer that right now except to say that there's a purpose behind every thread in the tapestry. That does not mean that God is in any way resonsible for it, nor that He willed it, but allowed it for His omniscient reasons. As for myself, I was sexually abused as a child, and when I tried to deal with it and heal from it as a teenager, it turned for me into a wonderful springboard for my relationship with God. Even while I was in the great pain and utter agony I was in while healing from it, I was glad that it had happened to me, and wouldn't have traded it for the world. I told God to make it as painful as He was willing to in order that I would derive the greatest benefit from it.
To learn to trust God despite evil being all around you, to turn to Him with a broken heart for Him to mend it, it's all for the building up of your relationship with God, which is the main purpose of our existence, (our relationship with God.) For me, evil did me great good in that. The fire purifies the gold. And, as I like to say, without cold, how could you know warmth???


But, welcome to the forum, Journeyman! I hope you find it an aid in your walk with God.