Evidence for God from Science

http://koti.phnet.fi/elohim/What_is_God_like.html

If we examine at this stage the Bible's description of God, of course it differs very much from the pantheistic concept of god. These kinds of differences lie in the fact that the God of the Bible is a personal God, he is the only God, he is eternal, and he has created all and is apart from his creation. We look at some passages of the Bible regarding this:



God is an eternal God, who has always been in existence:



- (Gen 21:33) Abraham planted a tamarisk tree in Beersheba, and there he called upon the name of the LORD , the Eternal God.



- (Isa 40:28) Do you not know? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired or weary, and his understanding no-one can fathom.



God has created all and is apart from his creation:



- (Rev 4:11) “You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honour and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.”



- (Rev 10:5-6) Then the angel I had seen standing on the sea and on the land raised his right hand to heaven.

6. And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it, and said, “There will be no more delay!



- (Mark 13:19) because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now—and never to be equaled again.



- (Acts 17:16,22-27,29-30) While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was greatly distressed to see that the city was full of idols.

22. Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: “Men of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious.

23. For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you.

24. “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands.

25. And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else.

26. From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.

27. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.

29. “Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man's design and skill.

30. In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.



There is only one God:



- (1 Tim 1:17) Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.



- (Isa 45:21) Declare what is to be, present it- let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Saviour; there is none but me.



- (Isa 46:9) Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me.



Other verses about the same matter:



- (Exodus 20:2-3) "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

3.”You shall have no other gods before me.



- (Isa 14:13-14) You said in your heart, “I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain.*

14. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.”



- (Eze 28:2) “Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: “ 'In the pride of your heart you say, “I am a god; I sit on the throne of a god in the heart of the seas.” But you are a man and not a god, though you think you are as wise as a god.



- (Romans 1:22-23,25) Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools

23. and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

25. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator-who is for ever praised. Amen.



- (Acts 12:21-24) On the appointed day Herod, wearing his royal robes, sat on his throne and delivered a public address to the people.

22. They shouted, “This is the voice of a god, not of a man.”

23. Immediately, because Herod did not give praise to God, an angel of the Lord struck him down, and he was eaten by worms and died.

24. But the word of God continued to increase and spread.



THE View ON one God



When we have examined this view about divinity of all, in other words pantheism, so it is good to know that this view cannot be the original inheritance of mankind, but it is a distortion, which followed when people gave up the worship of one God and their original inheritance.

Instead of that, much older view in the inheritance of mankind is the view of one God. It is not at all a western idea or anything such thing but it is a question of that which comes from the initial history of mankind. For example in Genesis there is an apposite reference to this matter:



- (Gen 4:26) Seth also had a son, and he named him Enosh. At that time men began to call on the name of the LORD .



Good examples of the worship of one God in the history of the nations can be found in several other studies (Wilhem Schmid, who lived in 1868- 1954, has collected 4500-sided work series, in which has been collected proofs of “primitive” tribes' monotheistic views on God. At least 1000 comparable examples have been found after his.). Ff we look at the traditional knowledge of many primitive tribes, many of them have records of original information concerning the God of heaven and the highest, genuine and real God, which have been handed down. Often, the more primitive the culture is, the better this information has been preserved.

Among many eastern tribes which now practise polytheism, for example in India, in Thailand, in Burma (In Burma for example the Karens, the Kachins, the Lahuts, the Wa and Kui tribes), traditional accounts about the Fall of Man, the Flood and also the confusion of languages have been handed down; in other words, the matters about which the Bible also speaks. In the same way for example in China the worship of Sang Ti, the worship of the Lord of the Heaven, has been in practice hundreds of years before Confucianism, Taoism and Buddhism were born, and Sang Ti has been the principal object of belief (Encyclopaedia of religions and ethics).

Monotheism is also the subject of the next citation, which concerns beliefs prevailing in India. Significantly, there are records in this country that prove the people believed in one God and then how this belief has been given up by degrees:



In the old books of the Veda, the Vedic songs give us decisive proof that during the earliest period of the Veda many gods are mentioned, such as rain god Indra, god of wind Vayu, god of storm Marut, god of sun Surya, goddess of dawn Ushas and god of fire Agni. These were however regarded as different appearances of a single highest being.

Professor Max Muller describes this phenomenon of the early Vedic religion with the following words: “The polytheism of Veda is preceded by monotheism; and when these gods are prayed to, there looms out of the mist of non- godly statements, a memento of one large, extreme God such as the blue skies appear behind the wisps of cloud". During this early period of the Veda religion, Hinduism was religiously and morally uncorrupted. Then there was nothing about the caste system and about reincarnation; image worship, legal child murders, burning of widows, the devil worship and absurd philosophic meditation. Instead of that, in the early Vedic songs there are several sublime points: the commonly well-known tradition of creation, the Fall of Man and the Flood, which belong to the first concepts of mankind. (7)



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Why can't polytheism simply be a different way of interpreting "One God"?
If you truly believe that your God is the only true one then any other theistic religions must also be worshiping the same one, just a different interpretation.

Anyone truly seeking the face of God will find It. But Salvation is the key message to people, and no one may enter eternal life or go to the Father but through Christ.

Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


The new (old) thinking is that all roads lead to God, when in fact only one road leads to God. If you play around with the Truth, ignore or substitute it, it is to your own ruin.

Isa 30:8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come forever and ever:
Isa 30:9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
Isa 30:10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
Isa 30:11 Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.
Isa 30:12 Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:
Isa 30:13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.

The other religions don't know the true God because they don't recognize Christ as God himself. They share a common belief that God exist and that he is all knowing, all seeing, with out beginning and without ending, creator of all things good and evil. Yet, when you don't accept Christ as God then you have no relationship with him. This is how they "stumble on the Rock".

LadyHel wrote:Why can't polytheism simply be a different way of interpreting "One God"?
If you truly believe that your God is the only true one then any other theistic religions must also be worshiping the same one, just a different interpretation.

Our God, of whom the Bible reveals, has very definite characteristics. If other gods do not match these characteristics, then they are obviously not Him, the same one that is worshopped by Jews and Christians. There is objective knowledge here to prevent "just another interpretation".

For example, the Muslim god they call Allah bears no resemblance by nature to the Judeo-Christian God. Muhammad set out with the pre-Islamic pantheistic god of that name to meld together with his perception of the Judeo-Christian Creator God. He was courting both the Arab tribes and the Jews at that stage, progressing the Arab thinking from pantheism to monotheism while hoping to gain credibility with the Jewish faith. In fact, the Jews saw right through this and spurned his religion - which is part of the historic intense hatred Muslims have towards Jews.

What developed then onwards became something very different from God who is described in the Bible. There are far too many contradictions for both Allah and our God to be one and the same. They are poles apart in a long list of ways. To say that they are the same, or merely a matter of "misinterpretation", is to be quite illogical and irrational.

The Jews believe in the same God as the Christians with whom they share the Old Testament, but they fall short of acknowledging the fullest revelation that we have of God, namely Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

Although we may all have differing perceptions of God, there is a great deal of objective knowledge about Him revealed in the Bible, and He can be known and that knowledge be reliable and trustworthy.
Our God of the Bible is not some pantheistic being. There is absolutely no possibility of getting that wrong. We can all invent gods if we like, but to have an objective description of our Christian God we need to turn to what He has truly revealed of Himself.

God said to Moses "Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God." (Exodus 34:14)
He is the one God - there is none other - and no pantheistic human god creations shall be worshipped along side Him.

I quite like the idea of pantheons, they're more based in real life and nature than the idea of One God. They experience things in the way that humans do and so can empathise with humans rather than just being a creator.
monotheism is the basis of politics, pantheons are the basis for Gods.

LadyHel wrote:I quite like the idea of pantheons, they're more based in real life and nature than the idea of One God. They experience things in the way that humans do and so can empathise with humans rather than just being a creator.
monotheism is the basis of politics, pantheons are the basis for Gods.

And who was Jesus?? Was he not Born, Lived, Died and the resurrected for our Sins. No religion in the World can make that claim about their God. Jesus our Eternal God bore our Sin on him at the Cross and Died and then resurrected.

For those who might no know this is what a Pantheon is

1). Existent in material form (if ever) only in the distant mythological or legendary past.
2). If based on an historical character, real (ie. non-mythological) knowledge of the person very sparse or absent altogether.
3). "Now" (ie. within the temporal context of the culture so named) existent on a purely or nearly purely spiritual plane of reality.
4). Having an awareness of and interest in the concerns of mortal humanity.
5). Having certain broadly defined supernatural powers and influences over a particular sphere of activity, contingent reality, philosophical or emotional state of being, etc.
6). Being generally recognized and accepted by the culture so named as a God, Demi-God, Avatar, Elemental, Angel, Demon, or other spiritual influence.

Hinduism is a great example of a Pantheon type of a Religion.

In any intelligent discussion or debate the participants usually appeal to some authority as the basis of their statements.
In response to posts on this Christian forum the authority that I appeal to is the biblical canon, or some subset of that canon, often to reason, or to some individual whom I consider to be knowledgeable and whose credentials are authentic and substantial.

Dialogue can be difficult when two people do not acknowledge the same authority.

LadyHel appears, in all of her posts so far, to be appealing to her own feelings and ideas about things, basing her point of view on subjective data. The statements she makes have nothing to substantiate them and in many cases have already been refuted by numerous Christian aplogoists. It is fine to make such statements if it is just social chit-chat that is to be engaged in, but the fact that is the case does need to be made clear.

If we are talking about God, the Creator Father God in whom Christians believe, then it is nonsensical to attribute something to him that can not be supported by Biblical truth. If we don't accept the character of God as defined by Scripture, then we can invent any god we like and attribute to him anything at all and call him what we like - and have many such gods as well. What is the point of discussing that except for fun which nobody should then take as serious - or objective and true? It is just idle chit-chat. So long as we understand that is all it is, then OK, so be it.

Judah wrote:In any intelligent discussion or debate the participants usually appeal to some authority as the basis of their statements.
In response to posts on this Christian forum the authority that I appeal to is the biblical canon, or some subset of that canon, often to reason, or to some individual whom I consider to be knowledgeable and whose credentials are authentic and substantial.

Dialogue can be difficult when two people do not acknowledge the same authority.

LadyHel appears, in all of her posts so far, to be appealing to her own feelings and ideas about things, basing her point of view on subjective data. The statements she makes have nothing to substantiate them and in many cases have already been refuted by numerous Christian aplogoists. It is fine to make such statements if it is just social chit-chat that is to be engaged in, but the fact that is the case does need to be made clear.

If we are talking about God, the Creator Father God in whom Christians believe, then it is nonsensical to attribute something to him that can not be supported by Biblical truth. If we don't accept the character of God as defined by Scripture, then we can invent any god we like and attribute to him anything at all and call him what we like - and have many such gods as well. What is the point of discussing that except for fun which nobody should then take as serious - or objective and true? It is just idle chit-chat. So long as we understand that is all it is, then OK, so be it.

Indeed!
As always Judah Two Thumbs UP

authentic wrote:The other religions don't know the true God because they don't recognize Christ as God himself. They share a common belief that God exist and that he is all knowing, all seeing, with out beginning and without ending, creator of all things good and evil. Yet, when you don't accept Christ as God then you have no relationship with him. This is how they "stumble on the Rock".

Many Hindus believe that Jesus is an incarnation of their God, and fully accept him as being God.

That's only because they believe in pantheism, voice. God, for them, is all and is in all. In their "theology", there are and have been many incarnations. It isn't suprising, then, that Jesus is the incarnation of God.

But, that doesn't mean the worship or even believe in the same God Christians do. They reject the monotheism of Jesus. The reject that God that Jesus has revealed in Himself.