NDEs; Hell; Straight to Heaven...

[Mystical]

I don't think we go to heaven immediately after we die, otherwise, why would Jesus come and resurrect the dead (when he picks up the living)--if they we would already be in heaven? Still, here is an article on NDEs that I found interesting. Do you guys believe NDEs are real or not? Why or why not?

Is Hell Real?

[Jay_7]

I don't think we go to heaven immediately after we die, otherwise, why would Jesus come and resurrect the dead (when he picks up the living)--if they we would already be in heaven? Still, here is an article on NDEs that I found interesting. Do you guys believe NDEs are real or not? Why or why not?

Is Hell Real?

He ressurects our physical bodys, our souls are in heaven already. i dont have a ccertain opinion on NDE's yet

[Mystical]

Oh. Never thought about that!

[dad]

....Do you guys believe NDEs are real or not? Why or why not?

Is Hell Real?

I believe in them, and like the old term better, life after life, or after death, experiences. (Gives some 'another chance' type of thing)
Of course there is a heaven and hell. I agree with the other guy here, that Jesus raises our dead bodies, and we go to be with Him before that.

[Mystical]

I've gotten a little confused because a JW told me there is no hell (just non-existence) and that all the instances in the bible where there is reference to burning and lakes of fire are mentions of the prison that Satan will be sent to after Armeggedon.

[dad]

I've gotten a little confused because a JW told me there is no hell (just non-existence) and that all the instances in the bible where there is reference to burning and lakes of fire are mentions of the prison that Satan will be sent to after Armeggedon.

They also think heaven is full with 144,000 JWs I think they think! Nonsense. There is a hell, even Jesus went down and preached to the spirits there. Hell is like a prison, except the most extreme level, which is like a lake of fire.
If there was non existance, who would Jesus raise from the dead when He comes? Who were the ones that were raised from the dead in His day here, after He ressurected, and walked the streets talking to many? Who was the Moses and Elijah that appeared to Jesus on the mountain?
At the end of the thousand year reign of Christ, all dead are raised in the great white throne judgement, who ever lived! What non existance is that supposed to be?
There are different names, and references to hell, and death in the bible, and one could play around enough to fool those who knew nothing about the bible if one wanted to make a living at that, like some groups I won't mention-ha.
Hell has different levels of learning, and punishment. Heaven does as well! Some will be raised to shame, yet they are still saved, and in heaven, but, I guess are ashamed of all they did or did not do here.
I would suggest studying up yourself, and maybe look elsewhere for opinions on the bible.

[Jay_7]

Theres a passage in the bible that says not to change anything the bible says, and to believe what it does say.

And if there was no hell we wouldnt have free will, and God mayaswell just kept us in heaven, if Jesus is the only way to heaven and people dont take his way then where do they end up? hell

[dad]

Theres a passage in the bible that says not to change anything the bible says, and to believe what it does say.

I don't plan on doing that, but the passage I think you mean refers to only the final book in the bible itself.

And if there was no hell we wouldnt have free will, and God mayaswell just kept us in heaven, if Jesus is the only way to heaven and people dont take his way then where do they end up? hell.

I don't know about His 'way'. All we need to do is believe in Him. If people have that chance to chose, and chose some other way, why, He won't force them. They say some people would be happier in hell than in heaven. Now as for those like babies, or who never had a good chance for that clear choice, who may have missed the gospel, why, my opinion is that they will get a chance in the world to come. ( I know some are going to spit nails over that one)

[Jay_7]

I don't plan on doing that, but the passage I think you mean refers to only the final book in the bible itself.

Sorry i was refering to Mystical, ishould of quoted her.

I don't know about His 'way'. All we need to do is believe in Him. If people have that chance to chose, and chose some other way, why, He won't force them. They say some people would be happier in hell than in heaven. Now as for those like babies, or who never had a good chance for that clear choice, who may have missed the gospel, why, my opinion is that they will get a chance in the world to come. ( I know some are going to spit nails over that one)

Yep thats what i meant. Not sure about babys etc. Good idea though.

About hell again:

Its possible that some people who just dont believe because they ahve grown up to believe theres no God and thought it was pointless too even read the bible might only get a small punishment. But those who kill and dont believe will get higher..

[dad]

About hell again:

Its possible that some people who just dont believe because they ahve grown up to believe theres no God and thought it was pointless too even read the bible might only get a small punishment. But those who kill and dont believe will get higher..

The world is pretty hellish right now, hard not to believe in it. I don't see how it could get much worse. But with Heaven being just a prayer away, makes me wonder why more don't take advantage.

[Jay_7]

About hell again:

Its possible that some people who just dont believe because they ahve grown up to believe theres no God and thought it was pointless too even read the bible might only get a small punishment. But those who kill and dont believe will get higher..

The world is pretty hellish right now, hard not to believe in it. I don't see how it could get much worse. But with Heaven being just a prayer away, makes me wonder why more don't take advantage.

Yeah, its a bit dumb to not believe, their being brainwashed by scientest etc.

[Mastriani]

About hell again:

Its possible that some people who just dont believe because they ahve grown up to believe theres no God and thought it was pointless too even read the bible might only get a small punishment. But those who kill and dont believe will get higher..

The world is pretty hellish right now, hard not to believe in it. I don't see how it could get much worse. But with Heaven being just a prayer away, makes me wonder why more don't take advantage.

Yeah, its a bit dumb to not believe, their being brainwashed by scientest etc.

Mmmmmm, no.

Oversimplification is the word I am looking for, and that is a most egregious statement of that nature.

There are as many reasons to not believe as there are to believe. Each individual must use experience, build perspective outside the ego, add to knowledge, and rectify misgivings in proper fashion to arrive at any conclusion. Then there is the multifaceted contentions of what constitutes intrinsic values of belief and the juxtapositioning of the learned extrinsic value system, and what logical collisions those two systems have on the way to a final outcome.

Belief, in anything, is not so simple a matter, except for the blind and overly rudimentary. Faith without objectivity is just as foolish as no faith at all. Both lead to the abyss.

[dad]

About hell again:

Its possible that some people who just dont believe because they ahve grown up to believe theres no God and thought it was pointless too even read the bible might only get a small punishment. But those who kill and dont believe will get higher..

The world is pretty hellish right now, hard not to believe in it. I don't see how it could get much worse. But with Heaven being just a prayer away, makes me wonder why more don't take advantage.

Oversimplification is the word I am looking for, and that is a most egregious statement of that nature.

There are as many reasons to not believe as there are to believe. Each individual must use experience, build perspective outside the ego, add to knowledge, and rectify misgivings in proper fashion to arrive at any conclusion. Then there is the multifaceted contentions of what constitutes intrinsic values of belief and the juxtapositioning of the learned extrinsic value system, and what logical collisions those two systems have on the way to a final outcome.

Belief, in anything, is not so simple a matter, except for the blind and overly rudimentary. Faith without objectivity is just as foolish as no faith at all. Both lead to the abyss.

Belief is not really the issue, we know both sides are belief based. The issue is that the old age side has commited a crime, it has falsely called it's belief science! Their fairy tales and fables are taught as part of real science. The physical only past that everything they say is based on cannot be supported and is not science. Believe what you want, the fraud must stop!

[Mastriani]

About hell again:

Its possible that some people who just dont believe because they ahve grown up to believe theres no God and thought it was pointless too even read the bible might only get a small punishment. But those who kill and dont believe will get higher..

The world is pretty hellish right now, hard not to believe in it. I don't see how it could get much worse. But with Heaven being just a prayer away, makes me wonder why more don't take advantage.

Oversimplification is the word I am looking for, and that is a most egregious statement of that nature.

There are as many reasons to not believe as there are to believe. Each individual must use experience, build perspective outside the ego, add to knowledge, and rectify misgivings in proper fashion to arrive at any conclusion. Then there is the multifaceted contentions of what constitutes intrinsic values of belief and the juxtapositioning of the learned extrinsic value system, and what logical collisions those two systems have on the way to a final outcome.

Belief, in anything, is not so simple a matter, except for the blind and overly rudimentary. Faith without objectivity is just as foolish as no faith at all. Both lead to the abyss.

Belief is not really the issue, we know both sides are belief based. The issue is that the old age side has commited a crime, it has falsely called it's belief science! Their fairy tales and fables are taught as part of real science. The physical only past that everything they say is based on cannot be supported and is not science. Believe what you want, the fraud must stop!

Correction. "Some" of what they say has been rebutted. "Some" has been verified.

Also, you are not convicted of knowledge, you are convicted of faith, which is not necessarily in line with logic.

Case in point: (I hope my friend Bgood joins this contention)
The Creation

1 In the beginning (A) God created the heavens and the earth. (B)

2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, (C) darkness covered the surface of the watery depths, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. (D) 3 Then God said, "Let there be light," (E) and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and He called the darkness "night." Evening came, and then morning: the first day.

Tell me, with your infinite human wisdom and vast universal knowledge, what is a "day" to an Infinite Creator? How long does it last? From who's perspective? How do we equate a "day"of an Eternal Spirit to human, error bound, grossly flawed calendrical counting systems with no beginning and reverse time engineering? Is this not a passage about a full cycle of a day of time to the Great Architect? How do you presume to judge what amount of human time passed in the great creation of perceivable physicality?

The only thing greater than delusion, is arrogance. The Bible, especially old Testament, Pentatuch, is full of mystery of the dawn of existence, and is unknowable, except by divinity.

[B. W.]

NDE; Hell; Straight to Heaven - Thread

Greetings,

I'll be brave and post this...

You may find my Blog interesting as it pertains to NDE's...

http://heavenhellpolitics.blogspot.com/

I have not posted on this forum anything about my Blog or Experience because of the stigma associated with NDE's just as Atwater's “Is there a Hell” Article linked too by Mystical - states in Atwater's closing remarks:

“One fact is clear: people who experience an unpleasant and/or hell like near-death experience must be welcomed by researchers and relieved of any trace of stigma or judgment. They have a lot to tell us, and we need to hear what they have to say."

Yes, there is stigma and judgement cast upon those that have had a bad experience. I'll be brave and post this and let the chips fall where they may.
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