A different homosexuality thread

[Wall-dog]

The Bible is pretty clear on what it thinks about homosexuality. It doesn't just call it a sin but puts it into a special catagory of sin and calls it a "Sin against God." Because of this, when people say that Christians have a problem with homosexuality, perhaps it would be more accurate to say that The Bible has a problem with homosexuality.

That said, The Bible also says that anyone who believes that they have already been forgiven for their sins by God's grace and Jesus' sacrifice will go to heaven and Jesus said 'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.'

It isn't the role of the Christain to judge people. That is God's role and Jesus' role. Frankly, I would not want the responsibility. I can't imagine how bad I would feel if someone had to go to 'Hell' (however you want to interpret what that is) because of a decision I made. I'm happy to let God and Jesus do that.

On the other hand, homosexuals want us to accept not only them, but also their lifestyle. As The Bible clearly says that their lifestyle is a sin, I would hope that homosexuals would understand that while a Christain can accept them and love them as a fellow human being and as a fellow child of God, we can't condone their lifestyle.

This is a free country. People have a right to live their lives as they see fit. If someone wants to share their life with someone of the same sex, that's not going to damn me so I really don't worry about it. I'll worry about my own sin instead and hope that they worry about theirs. If a homosexual wants to join my church, I'll invite them in with open arms. I won't candy-coat what the Bible says about that lifestyle choice, but I won't tell them they are going to Hell for it either. I'll just tell them that it is between them and God and I'll trust that if they trully accept Jesus into their life then they will be OK.

IMHO many Christians are guilty of trying to judge individuals based on specific sins. That's God's job. Also IMHO many homosexuals go too far and ask us not only to accept them in spite of their sin, but they ask us to accept that their lifestyle choice is NOT a sin when The Bible very clearly says that it is. I think we can accept the individual without accepting the lifestyle and I think homosexuals can respect us for that.

In otherwords, it is OK to be against homosexuality but it's probably not OK to be against homosexuals.

Does that make sense?

[IRQ Conflict]

but I won't tell them they are going to Hell for it either.

You won't tell them the Truth, even though it may help save their soul?

They, and all sinners, you, me, everyone has to know the Truth so we make a choice for God or a choice for sin. Regaurdless of offence.

Withholding the Truth is akin to lying (sugar coating) it. But I understand what your saying. Most people who revel and delight in the flesh will use stereotyping as a means to thwart the good intentions of well meaning Christians.

I hear it all the time. They claim we are 'intolerant' 'prejudice' and other forms of discriminatory things. It's a cop out and a crutch, just an excuse to appease their conscience, being 'willingly ignorant'.

This applies to all people that choose an immoral lifestyle be it homosexuality or any other deviant behavior.

FYI, God considers homosexuality an abomination as well. I know this sounds a little harsh but the Truth must be told and upheld.

2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since, the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby, the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished.
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

It's not that we should refuse homosexuals access to the Word as it is letting them dictate to the church what should be tolerated by the church and families. The homosexual agenda has crept both into our churches and schools in order to promote 'tolerance' by which thier definition really is 'acceptance' which God will not tolerate and niether should we.

God Bless.

[Wall-dog]

IRQ,

I think you are misreading me. All I'm doing is drawing a distinction between tolerance of the lifestyle and tolerance of the individual. Can't we say "I know you are a homosexual and The Bible clearly teaches that your lifestyle is a serious sin, but we love you as one of God's children anyway, we invite you to learn about God's word with us, and we hope God's word has an impact on your life."

When it comes right down to it, our relationship with God is a personal relationship. I'm not responsible for your sins and you are not responsible for mine. I don't have to answer for someone else's lifestyle so why should I worry about it? I'll let them know that their lifestyle is listed as a 'Sin against God' and then I'll let them worry about it.

Beyond that, there is no law saying that someone has to be religious. Politically they have a right in a free society to do as they see fit. That's what the separation of Church and State is all about. They have a right to their agenda and we have a right to ours. But our agenda should be inclusive of the individual in spite of their sins while at the same time it should be firm with regards to what is sin and what is not.

[Mystical]

I agree.

[Zenith]

i think you bring up a very good point, wall-dog, and one that many christians have seem to forgotten. it is not the job of christians to judge and to tell who is going to hell, that is left for god to do. christians are rather told, in the bible, to love all people, even if they are your enemy. you exlpain it a lot better than me, but i know i agree with you.

the only christians i have known personally are ones who think similarly to this. i have met quite a few who judge everyone, but i do not want to be around people like that. the real christians are the ones who accept people for who they are, no matter what they believe or what their lifestyle is. they accept them as being human, and as having as much sin as all humans, and so they try to teach them christianity out of respect, and not out of contempt.

[IRQ Conflict]

IRQ,I think you are misreading me. All I'm doing is drawing a distinction between tolerance of the lifestyle and tolerance of the individual.

I don't know how I misinterpreted "but I won't tell them they are going to Hell for it either".

However, yes, Jesus tolerates all sinners, just not the sin. In that I agree. Jesus taught that we should lead people to him, and we can't do that by just throwing stones.

[Kokujin]

As far as homosexuality goes, I think the most important things to remember is that it is a sin and should be treated equally to other sins aswell. What I mean by this is say for example, I have a son and he's homosexual. My analogy for this would be, I also have a daughter who is a thief. I love both my son and daughter very much and still treat them the same even though they commit these sins, BUT like any parent would do with the daughter, I have no problem letting her know that stealing is bad. (agreed?) This is when things start becoming vague in our society. I still love my son but I disagree with his decision to be homosexual, much like I love but disagree with my daughter being a thief. The only real diffrence between the 2 is that a thief goes to jail. Some people have a hard time acknowledging that to a christian, homosexuality is in the same class (sin) as stealing. Essentially, letting a homosexual do his/her thing is like deliberatly letting a thief do their thing. Not saying we need to intervene and stop them from doing so but I find it pretty much offensive when someone calls me prejudice or discriminitory toward homosexuals when it has nothing to do with me. Its the fact that christians see it as a sin and I think people forget that sometimes.

[IRQ Conflict]

Good analogy.

[Wall-dog]

Hey Zenith!

It's good to see we agree on something

Though we seem to be finding some common ground on the other thread too.

IRQ,

You misinterpret my intent as condoning homosexuality. I don't. I think it is a sin and I think we should call it one. In fact, I brought up that The Bible gives it it's own classification as a 'Sin against God.'

But I also said that we can be hard on homosexuality without being hard on individual homosexuals.

Kokujin,

The only problem with your analogy is that being a thief is illegal while being a homosexual is not. I would hope you would teach your children that homosexuality is a 'Sin against God' but I would hope you would teach them that stealing is illegal. That's not to say that stealing is worse, but it is to say that man judges for violating man's law so our role is different.

If my son were to say he is gay, I would tell him what The Bible says on the subject. But I wouldn't tell him he is going to hell because I have no way of knowing if that is true. What about a homosexual who believes in God and believes Jesus died for his sins? Isn't his homosexuality forgivin? That's between him and God - NOT him and me. And that's true even if he is my son.

I have a right and even a obligation to raise my children based on my Christian faith, but religion is a personal choice and the day will come when I have to respect my children's choice in religion and/or lifestyle. Personally, I think preparing them for that choice and then allowing them to excercise it makes them far more likely to make the decision I would make. But that's just me. Everyone has a right to raise their children the way they see fit.