Secularism killed the Christian

Silvertusk · Post by **Silvertusk** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:58 am

I am wondering if anyone on this website is finding it increasingly harder to be a christian in a secularistic society. Christianity in the UK is seeming more and more old fashioned, unPC, bigotted and intolerant. For instance the latest trend here is about Gay Civil Partnerships. Before I came a christian I didn't care what people did - now that I have become one (or at least trying to be one) I am now suppose to be of a mind that Gay Civil Partnerships is wrong, because homosexuality is seen as wrong in the bible.

If someone were to ask my opinion and I quoted the bible I would be seen as all of the above and homophobic as well. Even though I would try to get the message across that it is the sin I am questioning not the person.

This is just one example - but maybe there is something to be said that to be a christian is not be in this world - because every day we seem to fit in it less and less. When christians complain in the UK they are ignored because they are seen as old fashioned and out of touch. When Muslims complain they are instantly recognised and listen to.

Even on a friend to friend basis - I find it hard to witness to my non christian friends because I am seen as...well weird really. Religion is almost like a disease these days. I love my friends and the thought of them not going to heaven scares me rigid so it is my duty to at least try and preach the gospel. But to preach to someone is seen as a modern taboo these days as well. Everyone should be free to do what they want and believe what they want - and the moment someone trys to question that then they are against the rest of society and very intolerant.

I don't know where but my father in law mentioned a program that was one where it listed Religion as one of the greatest evils ever inflicted on man. If this is the current thinking - and to break away from religion is to be free - then christianity doesn't stand a chance. This is the danger of a secularitst society.

Anyone else have these problems or am I just being overly sensitive to this issue?

Thankyou and God Bless.

Silvertusk.

IRQ Conflict · Post by **IRQ Conflict** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:57 am

Welcome to the red pill, Silvertusk! Neo would be proud!

Seriuosly though, you are right. Read this site if your not too familiar with 'the last day's'

PL is banned from this topic hehe

Brigham · Post by **Brigham** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:16 am

Silvertusk, i know what you mean. I see the same thing happening. When i first started standing up for myself as a Christian i didnt know much about science and kind of didnt like being made fun of at work. See in the US, the thing now is that God is really a three letter word to alot of people. they say "Man, im a Christian too, that don't mean ya cant have sex with people, i know lots of Christians who are out having sex" yup, some Christians.... See but now that i know all the scientific arguments, the atheists, really any1 that tries to argue against me looks like an idiot. And i prayed about what was happening at work, and God just gave me confidence and pride in him as my Father. Not to mention, i thought about Jesus being made fun of and persecuted. With all this confidence, the guys at work mustve sensed it or something, bcuz now theyve really backed off and it almost feels like they look up to me bcuz i have sumthing they dont. They think "How can this guy stand ALONE being made fun of by ALL of us, and blow it off like it was dust on his shirt". See, with Gods help, its not that i hide my embarassment or whatever, I actually get happy and am proud when they did it bcuz i knew i was goin thru it 4 God, There's no embarassment to hide! Also, think of it like this.(gives me chills down my back sometimes), We are on an enemy battlefield. Me and you are the soldiers of the MOST HIGH KING back home. Any who are not his soldiers are traitors, and are under allegience to the Evil king of this battlefield, But God wants them back. We are far outnumbered, but we WILL win the battle. And we will have many medals for the things we went thru by the hands of the traitors, and of the evil one. See i just know thatthe people who try to bring me down Absolutly PALE in comparison to the One at my BACK! And yours!

And sinners will always use "intolerance" as a scapegoat for their sins! See, we as Christians can be tolerant, thats freedom, but we dont have to be Accepting! We just learned all this in church, im glad cuz it barley passed and u asked this question. Dont give in, dont go by the traitors standards, Your King is MUCH greater, and your duty is to try to bring the nrainwashed traitors to the Light.

I forgot exactly how it goes but:

"For the time is coming when sinners will surround themselves with teachers that teach only what they want to hear, to make them feel better"

Near the end, we will seem like a minority, and the enemy will make us look like fools, and maybe even terrorists or zealots. Well Jesus was UNCIVILIZED, bcuz CIVILIZATION is EVIL. Remember how the leaders treated him? Dont ever be CIVILIZED brother, bcuz the you know the one who sits on the throne of this world, and civilization worships him. Stay strong, take pride in being a soldier of the Most High. God bless!

-Brigham

Silvertusk · Post by **Silvertusk** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:56 am

IRQ Conflict wrote: Welcome to the red pill, Silvertusk! Neo would be proud!

Seriuosly though, you are right. Read this site if your not too familiar with 'the last day's'

PL is banned from this topic hehe

I agree that there is certainly seems to be more wickedness around in todays society. In fact the levels of inhumanity on our own doorstep chills me to the bone, let alone in other nations - and we are supposed to be a developed nation. I suppose one could say that this is a glimpse of hell when people are given over to their sins and seperated from God. Soon it will become all consuming. When I read in the paper about two men arrested for raping a two month old baby I just despair.

None of this has shaken my faith though - just proved to me even more how much we need God. But the problem comes when trying to fight against the tide. To find a voice in such and athestic driven society is hard work because it is now not the norm to speak about God anymore (unless it is the end of the night and you have had a few)

Has anyone else been in a situation when they have been afraid to speak out for the gospel?

Silvertusk.
I

Silvertusk · Post by **Silvertusk** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:13 am

Brigham wrote:Silvertusk, i know what you mean. I see the same thing happening. When i first started standing up for myself as a Christian i didnt know much about science and kind of didnt like being made fun of at work. See in the US, the thing now is that God is really a three letter word to alot of people. they say "Man, im a Christian too, that don't mean ya cant have sex with people, i know lots of Christians who are out having sex" yup, some Christians.... See but now that i know all the scientific arguments, the atheists, really any1 that tries to argue against me looks like an idiot. And i prayed about what was happening at work, and God just gave me confidence and pride in him as my Father. Not to mention, i thought about Jesus being made fun of and persecuted. With all this confidence, the guys at work mustve sensed it or something, bcuz now theyve really backed off and it almost feels like they look up to me bcuz i have sumthing they dont. They think "How can this guy stand ALONE being made fun of by ALL of us, and blow it off like it was dust on his shirt". See, with Gods help, its not that i hide my embarassment or whatever, I actually get happy and am proud when they did it bcuz i knew i was goin thru it 4 God, There's no embarassment to hide! Also, think of it like this.(gives me chills down my back sometimes), We are on an enemy battlefield. Me and you are the soldiers of the MOST HIGH KING back home. Any who are not his soldiers are traitors, and are under allegience to the Evil king of this battlefield, But God wants them back. We are far outnumbered, but we WILL win the battle. And we will have many medals for the things we went thru by the hands of the traitors, and of the evil one. See i just know thatthe people who try to bring me down Absolutly PALE in comparison to the One at my BACK! And yours!

And sinners will always use "intolerance" as a scapegoat for their sins! See, we as Christians can be tolerant, thats freedom, but we dont have to be Accepting! We just learned all this in church, im glad cuz it barley passed and u asked this question. Dont give in, dont go by the traitors standards, Your King is MUCH greater, and your duty is to try to bring the nrainwashed traitors to the Light.

I forgot exactly how it goes but:

"For the time is coming when sinners will surround themselves with teachers that teach only what they want to hear, to make them feel better"

Near the end, we will seem like a minority, and the enemy will make us look like fools, and maybe even terrorists or zealots. Well Jesus was UNCIVILIZED, bcuz CIVILIZATION is EVIL. Remember how the leaders treated him? Dont ever be CIVILIZED brother, bcuz the you know the one who sits on the throne of this world, and civilization worships him. Stay strong, take pride in being a soldier of the Most High. God bless!

-Brigham

Thank you Brigham
I see what you are trying to say here and good for you for witnessing in your work place. - but on your last point if I may - remember people are not the enemy. We are all sinners. There is nothing wrong with being civilised - in fact Jesus's teachings were the perfect way to be civilised. My point is really talking about the way our civilisation is going.

On paper, for example - giving Gay people the right to have civil partnerships - or marry - seems reasonable, very tolerant and an idea of a forward thinking society - maybe you can even say that this is humanity advancing socially by not restricting human rights. But the Bible teaches that this is wrong. So instantly we are up against everything that society is trying to achieve. Technically society is not evil here - but trying to do something about the rights of a minority group. However when religion comes up against this - they are seen as evil. This is just one example - but there are more like this.

What is now seen as the norm in society is I guess because we have become so desensitised to it it just doesn't register anymore - being conservative by definition, however, christianity is bound to clash. We have become outdated in the eyes of secularism and pluralism. A throwback to the medival times.

Don't get me wrong - I think everyone should follow the bible as it is a perfect way to live life. If everyone was as humble and peaceminded as Christ then we would all be in paradise now. It does make me sad though when today when someone prehaps speaks out against evolution for instant they are instantly categorised as wierd. If we speak out against Homosexuality - we are homophobic and bigotted. If we speak out against abortion - we are chavenistic pigs with no regard for human rights. The secularism and atheism that surrounds us is a little overwhelming sometimes.

I guess I am just rambling now...

Silvertusk.

IRQ Conflict · Post by **IRQ Conflict** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:16 am

Silvertusk, catch....

For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do -- living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. They think it strange that you do not plunge with them into the same flood of dissipation, and they heap abuse on you. - 1 Pet. 4:3-4

IRQ Conflict · Post by **IRQ Conflict** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:23 am

Silvertusk wrote:[
Has anyone else been in a situation when they have been afraid to speak out for the gospel?

Yup! when I spoke to some people that don't want to hear the word and they get angry, I don't 'thump' them with it as I don't want it to turn into a fruitless debate or what have you, but I will defend the moral of it and condemn thier sin using God as an example.

I do get aprihensive about it sometimes, but my duty to the Lord comes first, my duty to my fellow man comes next, then I can worry about me. If I take care of the things of God's He will take care of mine

Remember, Gods Word does not come back to Him void

Silvertusk · Post by **Silvertusk** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:30 am

IRQ Conflict wrote:
Silvertusk wrote:[
Has anyone else been in a situation when they have been afraid to speak out for the gospel?
Yup! when I spoke to some people that don't want to hear the word and they get angry, I don't 'thump' them with it as I don't want it to turn into a fruitless debate or what have you, but I will defend the moral of it and condemn thier sin using God as an example.

I do get aprihensive about it sometimes, but my duty to the Lord comes first, my duty to my fellow man comes next, then I can worry about me. If I take care of the things of God's He will take care of mine

Remember, Gods Word does not come back to Him void

I guess it is a case of being the best witness you can through it all, no matter what.

Silvertusk.

IRQ Conflict · Post by **IRQ Conflict** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:31 am

Silvertusk wrote:[On paper, for example - giving Gay people the right to have civil partnerships - or marry - seems reasonable, very tolerant and an idea of a forward thinking society - maybe you can even say that this is humanity advancing socially by not restricting human rights. But the Bible teaches that this is wrong. So instantly we are up against everything that society is trying to achieve. Technically society is not evil here - but trying to do something about the rights of a minority group. However when religion comes up against this - they are seen as evil. This is just one example - but there are more like this.

Remember Silvertusk, Satan comes as an "angel of light"

2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

I know you think 'tolerance' is a good thing, but it's even worse than the 'gay bashing' which is also a sin and not condonable by Christians. But you must see the ramifications of tolerating sin. (It's called eternal punishment in hell) beleive it!

Silvertusk · Post by **Silvertusk** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:40 am

IRQ Conflict wrote:
Silvertusk wrote:[On paper, for example - giving Gay people the right to have civil partnerships - or marry - seems reasonable, very tolerant and an idea of a forward thinking society - maybe you can even say that this is humanity advancing socially by not restricting human rights. But the Bible teaches that this is wrong. So instantly we are up against everything that society is trying to achieve. Technically society is not evil here - but trying to do something about the rights of a minority group. However when religion comes up against this - they are seen as evil. This is just one example - but there are more like this.
Remember Silvertusk, Satan comes as an "angel of light"

2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

I know you think 'tolerance' is a good thing, but it's even worse than the 'gay bashing' which is also a sin and not condonable by Christians. But you must see the ramifications of tolerating sin. (It's called eternal punishment in hell) beleive it!

Oh don't worry, i agree with you - and nice bible quote - I like that.
It is just very hard though sometimes.

IRQ Conflict · Post by **IRQ Conflict** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:40 am

Silvertusk wrote:I guess it is a case of being the best witness you can through it all, no matter what.

Joel 3:10 Let the weak say I am strong

1Jo 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Silvertusk · Post by **Silvertusk** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:43 am

IRQ Conflict wrote:
Silvertusk wrote:I guess it is a case of being the best witness you can through it all, no matter what.
Let the weak say I am strong

He that is in you is stronger than he that is in the world

Amen.

IRQ Conflict · Post by **IRQ Conflict** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:52 am

Remember also Silvertusk, God has written the law on our hearts, and when you speak the Word to others even though it may appear to be vain, it isn't.

It speaks to thier spirit. cutting through to the marrow.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

One of my dads favourite Scriptures as he had a MAJOR revelation with this.
Meditate and pray for revelation from the Spirit...trust me when you get some 'meat o the Word' you'll love it!

Judah · Post by **Judah** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:17 pm

Silvertusk, I share many of your concerns as expressed in your original post.

When it comes to matters of obedience to God, remember that everyone has been given the freedom to choose which way they wish to go. So the state sets about legalizing gay partnerships and that gives people more of a choice. It is horrifying to a Christian looking on, but you must keep in mind that people have been allowed these options and the freedom to choose from them. What right have you to remove these options? After all, God Himself does not.

While I am well aware of the great commission - to go out and spread the Gospel to lead people to faith in Christ - I am mindful that I cannot force anyone to choose the way I think is best for them.
My Christian witness will be through obedience to Christ's commandments to love God with all my being, and to love my neighbour as myself. Much witnessing to Christ is done by this means, by being that loving caring person who is ever joyful and at peace with God in whatever the circumstances. Being so can lead others to ask what is going on with you - and there you have an opening.

I am now finding an increasing number of ways to witness and the opportunities seem to pop up so naturally, the other raising the issue rather than myself. Then my role is to give good relevant and appropriate responses, to tell them the Truth and maybe where in the Bible it can be found.
It is not for me to try to force my values upon others, expecting them to behave according to God's Will when they have not decided to follow Him.
It is not my job to make them do anything, or insist that they believe as I do - it is for the Holy Spirit who will convict (prod, niggle, whatever) and bring the other person to Christ. I am simply following His lead. I think sometimes we charge on ahead and only frighten people off with untethered enthusiasm that makes it look like Christians are just nutters. Instead, it is hugely important to follow the promptings and leading of the Holy Spirit, not to take charge yourself. God given wisdom and discernment are required.
So please don't be thinking that you must do everything all on your own. You have only part of the job, albeit a very important part.

Others will always go off down different paths. You will not be able to stop them if that is their decision to do so. The world will always provide many attractions away from God. You are not responsible for the world, but you are responsible for your prayerful obedience to God and allowing yourself to be used as He wishes to do so.
I thought it would be hugely embarrassing, but have actually been delighted to find it is not. He is a loving Father who is mindful of you, knowing you better than you do yourself, and the situations He will use you in will suit best your own personality, talents and gifts. In my case, I am using my online Journal as a way to reach out - and it is working! I get a great deal of traffic from a huge number of countries, and it has created a lot of correspondence which is something I actually enjoy dealing with.

Yes, we are living in a "post Christian" age of postmodernism which features naturalism, moral relativism, multiculturalism and the tyranny of political correctness, pragmatism, and utopianism. The Judeo-Christian foundation of western civilization is being progressively chipped away by these processes, and so the Christian worldview is scorned and held in contempt. It certainly does make it harder to witness your Christian faith.

Silvertusk, I think you might well enjoy reading "How Now Shall We Live?" by Charles Colson & Nancy Pearcey. This book discusses the Christian worldview in relation to current day issues.
The brief review on the back cover states "...Chuck Colson and Nancy Pearcey show that the great spiritual battle today is a cosmic struggle between competing worldviews. Through inspiring stories and compelling teaching, they demonstrate how to: expose the false views and values of modern culture, live a more fulfilling life the way God created us to live, contend for the faith by understanding how nonbelievers think, and build a society that reflects biblical principles."

Blacknad · Post by **Blacknad** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 6:22 pm

Things will get worse, much worse.

Christians will be not just thought of as intolerant, un-PC and old fashioned.

They will be thought of as downright dangerous and seen to be standing in the way of societal progress.

We will be despised.

If we think we cannot return to things like the persecution of Nero where Christians were fed to dogs and used as living candles in his Garden, then you are very much mistaken.

As the god called 'humanistic rationality' gains an ever stronger foothold, our position will become more tenuous.

It will not just be the secular persecuting the saints. It will be the secular gorging on the secular.

In England we are really beginning to see the direct result of the overthrow of our Christian heritage.

We are finding it difficult to replace lollipop men and women - for you Yankee's if you don't know, they are the people who stop the traffic for children to cross the road outside schools. They get so much abuse these days from angry and impatient drivers that they are just packing in the job.

We have a school near us that cannot now get anyone to do the job.

A recent study of Sunday League Soccer, showed similar results. People are no longer wanting to referee football matches because of the abuse and physical violence they are subjected to. People just cannot accept or respect authority these days, and it will get worse.

I used to referee and it was difficult. I remember refereeing a match for younger kids once and I told an eight year old what to do and he turned to me with such anger and shouted, 'You can't tell me what to do - It's my F***ing life'. No concept of authority or even respect or selflessness or the greater good or following rules. By the age of eight.

Insurance companies have installed lie detector tests on the phones to test people making claims, because so many people lie these days.

Some cultural commentators have posited that we are watching the breakdown of Western Culture as the simple things that held it together are breaking down - respect, honesty, charity, self-restraint, politeness, patience etc.

Dark times coming for those of the faith - but Gods blessings and reward for standing firm will be great.

His ways are good and just.

In some ways it will actually be easier for Christians. They will get to see a very clear difference between themselves and the rest of society and really see the difference their faith makes and what the real alternative is to God's rule. The diamond shows up clearer against a black background.

Don't get despondent. We have a job to do and there are people out there even in the darkest, most Godless times, who will be saved by your willingness to witness to them.

Regards,

Blacknad.