Im finding it hard to believe the Bible lately.. its just because so many things dont make sence.
The creation story.. and others.. especially the bible itself, why did God have to make it such a hard read? He knew there'd be people that would take 'pillars of the earth' or 'four corners of the earth literally' so why did he put them in? It would be more loving to him if he just made it easier, i know it has so many truhts and facts in it, but are we sure this whole thing could be true?
Please reply! I still want to believe.
Having trouble believing
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IRQ Conflict
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2Ti 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
What can I say Jay (that rhymes)
Anyhoo, God wants you to seek after Him and the things of Him. The gifts of the Spirit ect.
Trust me, it gets boring, frustrating, rewarding, satisfying. All those and much more
But more than woth the effort, ah, yes, effort thats the word I was looking for, sorta like the carrot and stick thing I think! Much more rewarding than a carrot I asure you! And pray to God to give you revelation and understanding.
I used to have (and still do to a degree) a very hard time with the old english of the 1611, but the internet and others are a great resource!
Jam 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Col 2:1 For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;
Col 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
Col 2:3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
Col 2:4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
Col 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the steadfastness of your faith in Christ.
Col 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and established in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
What can I say Jay (that rhymes)
Anyhoo, God wants you to seek after Him and the things of Him. The gifts of the Spirit ect.
Trust me, it gets boring, frustrating, rewarding, satisfying. All those and much more
But more than woth the effort, ah, yes, effort thats the word I was looking for, sorta like the carrot and stick thing I think! Much more rewarding than a carrot I asure you! And pray to God to give you revelation and understanding.
I used to have (and still do to a degree) a very hard time with the old english of the 1611, but the internet and others are a great resource!
Jam 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Col 2:1 For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;
Col 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
Col 2:3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
Col 2:4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
Col 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the steadfastness of your faith in Christ.
Col 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and established in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Last edited by IRQ Conflict on Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hellfire
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
I know that if you seek information you find it, but what about all the others that havent read that passage, and only hear things about what other people say about the earth being flat etc, will they go to hell? Because some people il be told its just another religion and not read about it, will they get less punishment in hell? Does it say the more you know the more you'll be judged in the bible?
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IRQ Conflict
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God judges the heart, if one dies without hearing the Gospel Jesus will present it to him / her after they die, then they will have the choice.
Just as he did when he died at calvary, He went to the abyss and preached the good news there as well
Just as he did when he died at calvary, He went to the abyss and preached the good news there as well
Hellfire
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
Cool.IRQ Conflict wrote:God judges the heart, if one dies without hearing the Gospel Jesus will present it to him / her after they die, then they will have the choice
But just say people who do know about God, but they have been brainwashed by others that the bible a waste of time and that its contradictory, will they have a choice? I guess p[retty much everybody will have a choice except those who have read the bible and understood it. -
IRQ Conflict
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Pretty much, yes. As I said God judges the heart! He knows
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
2Ti 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
2Ti 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Last edited by IRQ Conflict on Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hellfire
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
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IRQ Conflict
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Thats what brothers are for!
God Bless
God Bless
Hellfire
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
Hi Jay,
I have had the same doubts too but keep searching and you will find.
On the creation story....one of the hardest things for me to believe this part was because all of the "evidence" to the contrary...evolution, big bang etc...
But I have read alot and found numerous holes in those theories.
I recommend Darwin's Black Box by Michael J. Behe
It virtually proves (scientifically) that these theories are not correct.
Archeologically speaking they are finding stuff everyday that is direct proof to exactly what the bible says, just do some google searches, your bound to find plenty.
I remember reading an article the last few weeks(cant remember the link)
where M.I.T recently did a study and found that everyone living today can be linked to a single ancestor between 4-8000 years ago. Coincidence? I think not.
One of the biggest thing for me to believe the bible was prophecy.
After reading prophecy after prophecy ( among other things), I remember thinking...man this is unreal, Only God could know this(for example, predicting the exact year Israel would become a country again after 1500+ years http://100prophecies.org/ another site which helped me is http://www.raptureready.com) there is just too much evidence that the bible is true, I mean yea i didnt know much about most of the bible stuff but every question I had I eventually got an answer for.
quote by jay 7 " i know it has so many truhts and facts in it, but are we sure this whole thing could be true?"
I believe we will never know everything but after so much evidence I just
started to believe what God says in faith.
I remember another story I read about scientists faking one of the links in human evolution. They took a pigs head or something like that and manipulated it to look like A missing link(not THE missing link).
This was like in 1960 I believe, like 30 years later the confessed they did this for fame or something like that.
I dont remember that site but could find it if anyone wants it.
Just imagine what has been faked that we dont know about.
ROMANS
3:4God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
When it comes to reading the bible i agree with irq conflict.
Pray for wisdom to understand and do some searches.
Remember also, you might be just a "babe" and are not given the wisdom to
understand the "meat" yet
1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
Hebrews 5:14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Just keep at it, pray and read the bible
I have had the same doubts too but keep searching and you will find.
On the creation story....one of the hardest things for me to believe this part was because all of the "evidence" to the contrary...evolution, big bang etc...
But I have read alot and found numerous holes in those theories.
I recommend Darwin's Black Box by Michael J. Behe
It virtually proves (scientifically) that these theories are not correct.
Archeologically speaking they are finding stuff everyday that is direct proof to exactly what the bible says, just do some google searches, your bound to find plenty.
I remember reading an article the last few weeks(cant remember the link)
where M.I.T recently did a study and found that everyone living today can be linked to a single ancestor between 4-8000 years ago. Coincidence? I think not.
One of the biggest thing for me to believe the bible was prophecy.
After reading prophecy after prophecy ( among other things), I remember thinking...man this is unreal, Only God could know this(for example, predicting the exact year Israel would become a country again after 1500+ years http://100prophecies.org/ another site which helped me is http://www.raptureready.com) there is just too much evidence that the bible is true, I mean yea i didnt know much about most of the bible stuff but every question I had I eventually got an answer for.
quote by jay 7 " i know it has so many truhts and facts in it, but are we sure this whole thing could be true?"
I believe we will never know everything but after so much evidence I just
started to believe what God says in faith.
I remember another story I read about scientists faking one of the links in human evolution. They took a pigs head or something like that and manipulated it to look like A missing link(not THE missing link).
This was like in 1960 I believe, like 30 years later the confessed they did this for fame or something like that.
I dont remember that site but could find it if anyone wants it.
Just imagine what has been faked that we dont know about.
ROMANS
3:4God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
When it comes to reading the bible i agree with irq conflict.
Pray for wisdom to understand and do some searches.
Remember also, you might be just a "babe" and are not given the wisdom to
understand the "meat" yet
1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
Hebrews 5:14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Just keep at it, pray and read the bible
I dont remember that site but could find it if anyone wants it.
Just imagine what has been faked that we dont know about.
I would like the site please.
Could the same not also be said for the Bible?
It doesn't completely disprove evolution anyway. You really only have to look around to have some evidence that it is true.
My theory. Our God is a god of Evolution. If our God is the god of everything then everything is in his image. And change over time is as likely as the raising of the dead.
Evolution is as much a part of God's plan as procreating.
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BGoodForGoodSake
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Are you sure about this?IRQ Conflict wrote:God judges the heart, if one dies without hearing the Gospel Jesus will present it to him / her after they die, then they will have the choice.
Just as he did when he died at calvary, He went to the abyss and preached the good news there as well
Then why bother spreading the gospel?
Wouldn't Jesus do a better job of presenting the truth than anyone else?
It seems that it was commanded that one should spread the gospel.
But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift. ... And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ," Ephesians 4:6, 7-12
It is not length of life, but depth of life. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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IRQ Conflict
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Jesus died for all who would believe on Him. You cannot have faith without knowledge right? How then would it be possible to have faith in Jesus if one never heard the Good News? i'm sure that in His Love and Grace that He bothered to empty Himself of His Godhood becomming flesh throught a virgin to die in a most horrible way, that he could be 'bothered' to make it known to those that were not privy to that knowledge as they lived.BGoodForGoodSake wrote:Are you sure about this?
I'm sure there is scripture that backs this up, but as to where I'm unsure at the moment.
We (believers) have a commision to spread the Gospel to ll nations and tongues, yes. Jesus is no longer on earth for one.Then why bother spreading the gospel?
Wouldn't Jesus do a better job of presenting the truth than anyone else?
It seems that it was commanded that one should spread the gospel.
But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift. ... And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ," Ephesians 4:6, 7-12
I believe the reason is FAITH. God wants all His people to trust Him, to believe Him and to praise Him.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
1Jo 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Hellfire
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
Jay_7,
Read some Will Durant. I recomment The History of Civilization, Volume 1, Our Oriental Heritage. The first 100 pages or so are profound. This is a purely secular read. Durant is an athiest... That said, many of the things in his books have a very strong pro-theology impact.
The first civilization on the face of the Earth, according to Durant, was Sumeria (not to be confused with Samaria - similar spellings but not the same place!). Sumeria was roughly in the same place as Babylon but it existed from at least 9000 BC to about 4500 BC. Then overnight it was gone. The next civilization was Egypt, at about 3500 BC. There was no civilization for the 1000 years between the fall of Sumeria and the birth of Egypt. The Sumerians were incredibly advanced. They had advanced cuniform (pre-letter alphabets based on phonetic sounds), the plow, the arch, and just tons of really advanced stuff. The Babylonians had a legend about how Sumeria perished. It says that Sumerian civilization perished in a great flood.
Biblical implications include a likely location for Eden, the Tower of Babel, and Noah's Ark. The Tower of Babel is particularly compelling when you consider that civilization and written language were completely lost for a thousand years.
You don't have to look for contradictions between history, science, and your faith. Look instead for similarities. As your faith grows you'll find start to find that it isn't as hard to make sense of things that at face value might seem to contradict your faith.
As for the 'four corners' or 'four pillars' of the Earth - keep in mind that the geography of the Near East makes what would have been the 'Known World' back in those days look roughly like a rectangle. Biblical authors would have been writing in the context of what they knew and the world they knew of, while not flat, was roughly a rectangle.
Read some Will Durant. I recomment The History of Civilization, Volume 1, Our Oriental Heritage. The first 100 pages or so are profound. This is a purely secular read. Durant is an athiest... That said, many of the things in his books have a very strong pro-theology impact.
The first civilization on the face of the Earth, according to Durant, was Sumeria (not to be confused with Samaria - similar spellings but not the same place!). Sumeria was roughly in the same place as Babylon but it existed from at least 9000 BC to about 4500 BC. Then overnight it was gone. The next civilization was Egypt, at about 3500 BC. There was no civilization for the 1000 years between the fall of Sumeria and the birth of Egypt. The Sumerians were incredibly advanced. They had advanced cuniform (pre-letter alphabets based on phonetic sounds), the plow, the arch, and just tons of really advanced stuff. The Babylonians had a legend about how Sumeria perished. It says that Sumerian civilization perished in a great flood.
Biblical implications include a likely location for Eden, the Tower of Babel, and Noah's Ark. The Tower of Babel is particularly compelling when you consider that civilization and written language were completely lost for a thousand years.
You don't have to look for contradictions between history, science, and your faith. Look instead for similarities. As your faith grows you'll find start to find that it isn't as hard to make sense of things that at face value might seem to contradict your faith.
As for the 'four corners' or 'four pillars' of the Earth - keep in mind that the geography of the Near East makes what would have been the 'Known World' back in those days look roughly like a rectangle. Biblical authors would have been writing in the context of what they knew and the world they knew of, while not flat, was roughly a rectangle.
although i was just a bit off on the year (50+yrs lol)
heres a link http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aso/databank/en ... o53pi.html
"This "Piltdown Man" was believed by many to be "the earliest Englishman," and in fact, the missing link between apes and humans. But in 1953, the jawbone was found to be that of a modern ape -- orangutan, most likely -- that had been treated with chemicals to make it look as though it had been lying in the ground for hundreds of centuries."
Quote by LadyHel "Could the same not also be said for the Bible? "
The bible is known to be thousands of years old, this is a fact is it not?
When the bible says something will happen and it does, I dont see how
it could be fabricated (aka prophecy). http://100prophecies.org/
When there are mounds of archaeological findings that prove what the bible claims as history (ie sodom and gamora sp?),
I would say, NO, the same could not be said of the bible.
heres a link http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aso/databank/en ... o53pi.html
"This "Piltdown Man" was believed by many to be "the earliest Englishman," and in fact, the missing link between apes and humans. But in 1953, the jawbone was found to be that of a modern ape -- orangutan, most likely -- that had been treated with chemicals to make it look as though it had been lying in the ground for hundreds of centuries."
Quote by LadyHel "Could the same not also be said for the Bible? "
The bible is known to be thousands of years old, this is a fact is it not?
When the bible says something will happen and it does, I dont see how
it could be fabricated (aka prophecy). http://100prophecies.org/
When there are mounds of archaeological findings that prove what the bible claims as history (ie sodom and gamora sp?),
I would say, NO, the same could not be said of the bible.
Re: Having trouble believing
The Bible was still written by men and the comprehension of man is very limited. God always uses terms that we can understand and the understanding of man back then was less than it is now.Jay_7 wrote:Im finding it hard to believe the Bible lately.. its just because so many things dont make sence.
The creation story.. and others.. especially the bible itself, why did God have to make it such a hard read? He knew there'd be people that would take 'pillars of the earth' or 'four corners of the earth literally' so why did he put them in? It would be more loving to him if he just made it easier, i know it has so many truhts and facts in it, but are we sure this whole thing could be true?
Please reply! I still want to believe.
We can never ever understand everything there is to know about God and ultimately we don't have to. I had some confusion over the creation story myself and parts of it may or may not be true (example: how did Noah know about clean and unclean animals before the Mosaic covenant?), but in the end does it matter? If God wanted to create the universe in 7 days or 7 billion years, it still makes no difference because the fact that it exists at all is a testament to God's design.