Evidence for God from Science

All right, we all know that Mormonism is heresy. But, how does it stand up historically? The answer is no. Let's take a look.

Let's start with the easiest things first. Ya know those maps that are sometimes illustated in those Mormon books? Isn't it pretty interesting how those maps don't match up to any land, at all, located on the Planet Earth? And while we're on geography, the cities named in the Book of Mormon, not a single one existed. How about the people, the Lamenites and the Nephites? Yep, nothing more than fairy tale people.

How about animals. The Book of Mormon describes battles in which people would ride in on horses. Let's see, the Book of Mormon is about Jews in the ancient Americas (including all of North America, South America, and Central America), according to it, all the events were over by 400 A.D. There were no horses in the Americas back then. The first horses in America were brought over by the Europeans thousands of years after 400 A.D. The Book of Mormon also describes elephants in the Americas. Elephants native to America? Please!

By the way, about those battles in which horses were rode in on? Never happened, at all. What were the main weapons described as being used in the Book of Mormon battles? Metal swords. Neither Native Americans, nor the Mayans used metal, at all. In reality they used stone, sharpened stone for weapons and knives, no metal. Which also means they didn't use any coin either, contrary to what the Book of Mormon says.

How about language? "Reform Egyptian" as they call it. This is a completely fictional language that never existed anywhere, outside of the Book of Mormon, which is a fairytale book. And if they were originally Jews who came to the Americas, naturally they would have Hebrew from their original ancestors, right? Wrong. Not a single drop of Hebrew is found to have existed in the ancient Americas.

And now, for one last thing. The Book of Mormon tells of an ancient empire that existed in the ancient Americas for 1,000 years. Just like everything else, this is also fictional.

How did I get this information? Here's a link to a video (note:It's an hour long)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 6&q=mormon

I know very little about mormonism, I want to keep it that way

Before being born again my mother was flirting with mormonism, that is until she found out how prejudiced they were.

Here's an interesting news article about Mormons and how they now have to deal with DNA evidence that contradicts one of their foundational teachings.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... -headlines

Ray

poor Joseph Smith

I just finished debating a mormon at another site.

Its funny that they can quote from the book of mormon all day long, but get them into the Bible and they get flustered because they really don't know much about it.

Those who have been through their LDS temples are wearing secret underwear to protect themselves from "evil".

Has anyone heard this?

Son Worshiper wrote:I just finished debating a mormon at another site.

Its funny that they can quote from the book of mormon all day long, but get them into the Bible and they get flustered because they really don't know much about it.

I know exactly what you mean. I remember being in a heated discussion with my friend who happened to be mormon. She quoted things from the book of mormon every chance she got, but when I made arguments with quotes from the Bible, I was all of the sudden "Bible bashing".

Those who have been through their LDS temples are wearing secret underwear to protect themselves from "evil".

Has anyone heard this?

Yes, are you asking so someone would explain it? I'll just do it since I'm already in this discussion. These "secret underwear" are just regular garments that are supposedly blessed. The garments also have some special symbols on them that are important to the mormon religion. These garments are supposed to remind the mormons of their visits to the temple, and they are also meant to constantly remind them of their convenants so they will not sin.

There's my two cents.

By the way, I just want to clearify that I learned these things from my mormon friend. Just wanted to say that in case any mormons out there thought that I was trying to expose and make fun of their beliefs. Which I'm not.

Peace

All right, we all know that Mormonism is heresy. But, how does it stand up historically? The answer is no.

You answered no to a question that was not a yes/no question.

Let's start with the easiest things first. Ya know those maps that are sometimes illustated in those Mormon books? Isn't it pretty interesting how those maps don't match up to any land, at all, located on the Planet Earth? And while we're on geography, the cities named in the Book of Mormon, not a single one existed. How about the people, the Lamenites and the Nephites? Yep, nothing more than fairy tale people.

How about animals. The Book of Mormon describes battles in which people would ride in on horses. Let's see, the Book of Mormon is about Jews in the ancient Americas (including all of North America, South America, and Central America), according to it, all the events were over by 400 A.D. There were no horses in the Americas back then. The first horses in America were brought over by the Europeans thousands of years after 400 A.D. The Book of Mormon also describes elephants in the Americas. Elephants native to America? Please!

By the way, about those battles in which horses were rode in on? Never happened, at all. What were the main weapons described as being used in the Book of Mormon battles? Metal swords. Neither Native Americans, nor the Mayans used metal, at all. In reality they used stone, sharpened stone for weapons and knives, no metal. Which also means they didn't use any coin either, contrary to what the Book of Mormon says.

How about language? "Reform Egyptian" as they call it. This is a completely fictional language that never existed anywhere, outside of the Book of Mormon, which is a fairytale book. And if they were originally Jews who came to the Americas, naturally they would have Hebrew from their original ancestors, right? Wrong. Not a single drop of Hebrew is found to have existed in the ancient Americas.

And now, for one last thing. The Book of Mormon tells of an ancient empire that existed in the ancient Americas for 1,000 years. Just like everything else, this is also fictional.

You are wrong on almost every single thing you said. The problem is that all these accusations fly in the face of proof that tells the exact opposite story. The anti-mormon world likes to close their ears to science so they can keep making the same re-hashed claims that have been proven false long ago.

Sargon

Sargon wrote:

All right, we all know that Mormonism is heresy. But, how does it stand up historically? The answer is no.

You answered no to a question that was not a yes/no question.

You are wrong on almost every single thing you said. The problem is that all these accusations fly in the face of proof that tells the exact opposite story. The anti-mormon world likes to close their ears to science so they can keep making the same re-hashed claims that have been proven false long ago.

Could you proivde the evidence to support your case please?

Absolutely, Ill even let you choose which topic to start with. We can do one at a time.

Sargon

Sargon wrote:Absolutely, Ill even let you choose which topic to start with. We can do one at a time.

How about we start with the 'Book Of Abraham'?

I dont believe the Book of Abraham was mentioned at all in the original post. That would be a whole different topic and would require a very lengthy discussion. If you are truly interested I could give you links to places where it is discussed.

Back on topic.

Let's start with the easiest things first. Ya know those maps that are sometimes illustated in those Mormon books? Isn't it pretty interesting how those maps don't match up to any land, at all, located on the Planet Earth?

According to the poster this is the easiest one. I find it the easiest to simply explain away. The Book of Mormon is a historical account of a family and their descendants. It does not purport to be exhaustive, nor does it attempt to describe the geography in detail. The only real clues we have about what the land was shaped like is found in descriptions of war stories on the Book of Mormon. To find a recreation of those maps is actually not an easy thing, because we dont really use them. However some interested church members have attempted to make them. In every instance they include warnings to not take the map too literally, because we just dont have enough details to know exactly what the land was like, or where it was. The church has never published a map, and has never taken a position as to where it was.

the Book of Mormon is about Jews in the ancient Americas (including all of North America, South America, and Central America)

Actually, this too is a false statement. The book of mormon was written long before the this continent has been named "America", and the writers did not know the shape of the continent. It does not state whether the events told occured over the entire face of both continents, or over a more limited geographical area. In fact there is some debate among the LDS world on this exact theme.

Sargon

Sargon wrote:

Let's start with the easiest things first. Ya know those maps that are sometimes illustated in those Mormon books? Isn't it pretty interesting how those maps don't match up to any land, at all, located on the Planet Earth?

According to the poster this is the easiest one. I find it the easiest to simply explain away.

Sargon, I don't think you explain this away. Rather, you must acknowledge that the location of the events described in the BoM cannot be discerned b/c not enough detail is provided. In the other thread you claimed:

In the case of the Book of Mormon, we have had very little time to study. The Book of Mormon has been around for a mere 177 years(one year before the creation of the church I think), and for most of that time very little was known about the Mesoamerican cultures. In fact, at the time the BoM was written the very thought that those "beastly savages" had the capacity to build cities was blasphemous!! Yet we find hundreds of ancient cities, evidences for complex societies, and the more we learn the more we discover that the BoM actually painted an accurate picture of those civilizations.

(emphasis added by ttoews)

The fact of the matter is that the BoM does not paint an accurate picture of any of the N American civilizations....for if such was really the case we would be able to say where the events in the BoM must have taken place (b/c we could match the civilization described in the BoM with the known and discovered civilizations of N. A.). However, as you now must admit, the BoM does not even give enough detail to determine if the "events told occurred over the entire face of both continents, or over a more limited geographical area. In fact there is some debate among the LDS world on this exact theme." So even on a subject as big as location the BoM has no historical verification.

the Book of Mormon is about Jews in the ancient Americas (including all of North America, South America, and Central America)

Actually, this too is a false statement.

....well, isn't it a statement that reflects a position that was put forward by the early leadership of the LDS?...and isn't it a position that is still widely held among the LDS in the pews? You may think it false, but surely you should also acknowledge that LDS prophets have thought it to be true and many LDS today still think it to be true.

Isn't the truth most important when deciding what to believe and follow? I thought so, and so I decided to do something that requires the intellect of Rocket Science, apparently. I asked God. Yep, it really was that simple because I really really want the truth. I emptied the box I stored of ideas and theories and hopes about God, even old conditioned beliefs. I got rid of everything and lifted my hands with tears of deep desire for the truth and for God to lead me to it. Oh boy, have I got a bestseller. I would share my many testimonial accounts from my life, however, a book is to be released one day, Lord willing, and it isn't necessary for what the Lord has for me to write here...
When you desire God with all your heart, He leads you to the truth, which happens to be documented in a miraculous book of History, Adventure, Prophesy, Romance, parenting, finance, how to deal with stress..., and not to mention, other BasicInstructionsBeforeLeavingEarth (BIBLE)!

So once I emptied the box of mostly junk and confusion, I let God put back in the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, which at least we should all be able to agree "only God can confirm the truth." So go and seek God with all your heart and soul as if you were going to die any day, as if you didn't know when, as if it could be tomorrow, as if your eternity (energy cannot be created nor destroyed) depended on it...because if you seek Him so earnestly with tears and open arms, the truth will be joyfully inescapable. God's love is displayed throughout the earth in parallels to what we hope for in the spiritual...so if we have evidence of Love and Hope here on Earth...isn't that enough to have even a hint of Faith so we can take the first step and simply Ask Him?

You cannot intellectualize your way to knowing God, He won't allow it. He wants your love as much as you want to believe in His. God's desire for a relationship with you is so strong that He created a way to show you and communicate to you through His son(which is a wonderful parallel if you have children) You must begin to truly seek Him to know Him to Love Him...to ultimately receive His gifts and treasures he already has for you. Note: Your ideas of gifts and treasures are to surely change when you receive the truth...if not, then I would say the manipulation and confusion of the truth was successfully twisted for you. You can accept partial truth, that is your free will.

I have found the Way, the Truth, and the Life and in Christ I continue seeking...