Evidence for God from Science

Almost there! one more push, here comes the head....

Why am I not surprised? First, The Message, than The Refuel, now this. Someone will have a lot to answer for.

Question, PL:

Since you mention The Message, do you see a distinction between a paraphrastic interpretation and a flat reworking of the texts? I ask because, just thinking about it on the surface, maybe Phillips (he did The Message, right?) will be held to the standard of a teacher (as per James 3:1) who got certain interpretations wrong. Maybe that wouldn't be any different from someone studying the Greek or Hebrew and then teaching an interpretation that turned out to be wrong.

If this is true, can we draw a distinction between what he's done verses what these guys are doing? They seem to be denying everything from the Deity of Christ to the reality of sin! Perhaps there are harsher judgments for deeper errors?

What are your thoughts on this?

Actually, The Message Bible is written by Eugene Peterson. My problem withthe Message isn't that it is a paraphrase, but a total rewriting or scripture. The fact that Peterson's books are recommended by New Age thinkers should be a warning sign to Christians everywhere. To call "The Message" a paraphrase is a joke. It is a version that clearly adds to and takes away from the Word, or, as you properly phrase it, a "a flat reworking of the texts". Here are a few examples of how Peterson rewrites scripture in his “Message Bible”.

John 3:36

"He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 (NKJV)

"Whoever accepts and trust the Son gets in on everything, life complete and forever!" John 3:36 (The Message)



Matthew 6:9

"Our Father in heaven, hallowed be Your name." Matt. 6:9 (NKJV)

"Our Father in heaven, reveal who you are." Matt. 6:9 (The Message)



John 14:28

"My Father is greater than I." John 14:28 (NKJV)

"The Father is the goal and purpose of my life." John 14:28 (The Message)




John 4:23

"...the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him." John 4:23 (NKJV)

"That's the kind of people the Father is out looking for: those who are simply and honestly themselves before him in their worship." John 4:23 (The Message)



1 Corinthians 6:17-18

“But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.” 1 Corinthians 6:17-18 (NKJV)

"Since we want to become spiritually one with the Master, we must not pursue the kind of sex that avoids commitment and intimacy, leaving us more lonely than ever - the kind of sex that can never "become one." There is a sense in which sexual sins are different from all others. In sexual sin we violate the sacredness of our own bodies, these bodies that were made for God-given and God-modeled love, for "becoming one" with another." 1 Corinthians 6:17-18 (The Message)



Romans 1:24-27

“Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.” Romans 1:24-27 (NKJV)

“So God said, in effect, "If that's what you want, that's what you get." It wasn't long before they were living in a pigpen, smeared with filth, filthy inside and out. And all this because they traded the true God for a fake god, and worshipped the god they made instead of the God who made them - the God we bless, the God who blesses us. Oh, yes! Worse followed. Refusing to know God, they soon didn't know how to be human either-women didn't know how to be women, men didn't know how to be men. Sexually confused, they abused and defiled one another, women with women, men with men-all lust, no love. And then they paid for it, oh, how they paid for it-emptied of God and love, godless and loveless wretches." Romans 1:24-27 (The Message)



Colossians 2:10

“and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.” Colossians 2:10 (NKJV)

"You don't need a telescope, a microscope or a horoscope to realise the fullness of Christ, and the emptiness of the universe without him." Colossians 2:10 (The Message)



1 Corinthians 6:9-10

“Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.” 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NKJV)

"Unjust people who don't care about God will not be joining in his kingdom. Those who use and abuse each other, use and abuse sex, use and abuse the earth and everything in it, don't qualify as citizens in God's kingdom." 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (The Message)

Holy cow . . .

I thought the Message was just the NLT strung together in a more narrative way. Yeah, that's a rewrite all right (haha, sort of a rhyme, only not)

Heh, you can buy this book from the church of england.

here is another interesting translation (Luke 13:24):


"Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to." (NIV)


"Whether few or many is none of your business. Put your mind on your life with God. The way to life--to God!-is vigorous and requires your total attention. A lot of you are going to assume that you'll sit down to God's salvation banquet just because you've been hanging around the neighborhood all your lives." (The Message)

http://www.jesus-is-saviour.com do a demolition on almost every version of the bible except King James.

example:

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/GN ... xposed.htm

What are people's thoughts on this?

Regards,

Blacknad.

Those quotes are worse than my New Living Translation.

The NLT totally removes all beauty of language and instead speaks in plain and boring english used by six year olds in our modern day.

IRQ Conflict wrote:Almost there! one more push, here comes the head....

That is horrendous - i cant believe they are rewriting scripture. Wasn't there a warning in Revelation about what would happen if people did that. This is some Politically correct nut butting in to areas that he/she should keep well out of. We should change our society to reflect the scripture - not change scripture to reflect our current society. Makes me furious.

I have a NIV - how does that stand up in the translation scheme of things?

Silvertusk wrote:

IRQ Conflict wrote:Almost there! one more push, here comes the head....

That is horrendous - i cant believe they are rewriting scripture. Wasn't there a warning in Revelation about what would happen if people did that. This is some Politically correct nut butting in to areas that he/she should keep well out of. We should change our society to reflect the scripture - not change scripture to reflect our current society. Makes me furious.

I have a NIV - how does that stand up in the translation scheme of things?

Depends who you talk to.

The NIV is a solid translation in my opinion and doesn't engage in these types of eisogesis.

Most heavy criticism of it is coming from people who are King James only so there's that.

I like it. For personal study, I prefer the NASB, but I don't quibble with anyone over it.

My preference is for the NIV.
I suspect that my preference for that one over the NSAB has something to do with the fact I am not an American.
It is a very subtle thing, but I just do not find the NSAB quite as easy to read as the NIV.

Judah wrote:My preference is for the NIV.
I suspect that my preference for that one over the NSAB has something to do with the fact I am not an American.
It is a very subtle thing, but I just do not find the NSAB quite as easy to read as the NIV.

That's true.

The NIV works out to about an 8th grade reading level while the NASB is more like 10th or 11th grade.

I don't say that in an elitist sense, but in terms of the goals for the translators, the NASB is designed more to try and capture the actual syntax of the original language while the NIV's primary goal was to hold to the meaning while making it more easy to read in english.

Both are excellent translations.

'That's my boy! You're doing fine!' That's the worst translation of the benevolent voice of God the Father I've ever seen. Who do they think He is -- Zeus from the Disney movie Hercules?

New English Translation FTW.