Does the phrase "Inherit the Kingdom of God" refer to salvation or rewards? Because it says in Galatians, Revelation and other places that murderers, idolaters, fornicators, Liars, etc.... will not "inherit the Kingdom of God"
It seems to me that this list would include everyone. Because if we have committed one sin we are guilty of all. I do not think this verse refers to salvation. I think that these people will not be the ones that receive the Crowns and reign with Christ.
But to extend that question further if it is about rewards, then can a fornicator, liar, idolater, or etc... repent of his sin and still receive rewards.
This line reasoning would also suggest that some saved people can continue in these sins but will not receive any rewards.
Does this sound like a correct assessment of these verses that mention inheriting the Kingdom of God?
Inherit the Kingdom of God - Rewards doctrine???
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Jac3510
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Great assessment, YLT. If you trace the idea of "inherit the kingdom," you'll see it has to do specifically with reigning with Christ. Many will be saved, but will lose the right to reign. Those Christians who continue in such sins listed will be among those who forfeit their inheritance.
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
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Jac3510
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Because most churches adhere to the doctrine of Perseverance. All true Christians will persevere in faith and good works until the end, and therefore, no true Christian can and will be described by any of those words.
For these people, there can be no meaningful doctrine of rewards, because EVERYONE perseveres IF THEY ARE REALLY SAVED.
Of course, this also destroys assurance, because no one can know if they are REALLY saved until they've managed to persevere until the end :p
For these people, there can be no meaningful doctrine of rewards, because EVERYONE perseveres IF THEY ARE REALLY SAVED.
Of course, this also destroys assurance, because no one can know if they are REALLY saved until they've managed to persevere until the end :p
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
I must disagree on this. When Scripture speaks of inherit the kingdom of heaven he means that will we become a part of heaven ie we will be saved.
This ties into basic doctrine. Yes, we are all liars, fornicators, etc. However, Jesus Christ died on the Cross to save us from our sins. Our sins are paid for. Everyone's sins are paid for. People go to hell not because of their sins, but because of unbelief. They reject the gift of salvation and thus the gift of having your sins paid off.
Our corrupt nature is so great and horrible that it can only be covered and forgiven before God in those baptized and believing. Furthermore, human nature, which is perverted and corrupted by original sin, must and can be healed only by the regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit. However, this healing is only BEGUN in this life. It will not be perfect until the life to come.
What the verses that say fornicators, etc. will not inhereit the kingdom of heaven is saying is that people who are in unbelief (and thus reject the gift of cleansing of their sins) will be punished.
There is no ranking system in heaven. There will not be some Christians who will reign with Christ and others who will be servants. We will all reign with Christ and we will all be servants.
This ties into basic doctrine. Yes, we are all liars, fornicators, etc. However, Jesus Christ died on the Cross to save us from our sins. Our sins are paid for. Everyone's sins are paid for. People go to hell not because of their sins, but because of unbelief. They reject the gift of salvation and thus the gift of having your sins paid off.
Our corrupt nature is so great and horrible that it can only be covered and forgiven before God in those baptized and believing. Furthermore, human nature, which is perverted and corrupted by original sin, must and can be healed only by the regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit. However, this healing is only BEGUN in this life. It will not be perfect until the life to come.
What the verses that say fornicators, etc. will not inhereit the kingdom of heaven is saying is that people who are in unbelief (and thus reject the gift of cleansing of their sins) will be punished.
There is no ranking system in heaven. There will not be some Christians who will reign with Christ and others who will be servants. We will all reign with Christ and we will all be servants.
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Jac3510
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Let me walk through your post to show you where I believe your thinking is off:
1. Belief in Jesus Christ (whatever that means)
2. Be baptized
3. Repent of my sins,
4. Pesevere in refraining from habitual sin,
5. Make a commitment to the Lordship of Jesus Christ.
I get (3) from the claim that fornicators and others on that list are people in unbelief. Therefore, it follows that those in belief are not those things, so they must have renounced those sins. I get (4) from the same claim. If homosexuals aren't saved because, after all, Paul CLEARLY says they don't inherit the Kingdom, then it follows that after they've repented, they can't fall back into that category again. Otherwise, that proves they only thought they believed. (5), then, is an extrapolation of these last two. To repent and persevere in faith and works is absolutely synonomous with submission to the Lordship of Christ.
If this is true, though:
1. How can you know you've really believed?
2. How can you know you won't at some later date disbelieve?
3. How can you know you are going to heaven?
4. How many times do you have to lie, or fornicate, or steal before you are considered a liar, fornicator, or thief, respectively?
5. How good of a life to you have to live to be sure you are living under the Lordship of Christ?
6. Given all this, what did Paul mean when he said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved!" What he preaching a partial gospel? An incorrect one? Is belief defined as baptism/repentance/submission/perseverance?
Jesus says this same thing. In the parable of the wicked steward (Luke 19:11-26). In that passage, there are some who are given rule over ten cities. Others are given rule over five cities. Others are given rule over nothing at all!
Paul solidifies this idea in 1 Cor. 3:13-15, saying "his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames." (NIV)
Clearly, some will receive a reward while others suffer loss, though they themselves will be saved. We could really continue with this a while. 2 Pet. 1:5-11 immediately comes to mind, as do other passages.
So, again, I disagree that there is no ranking system in heaven.
God bless
I disagree. If this were the case, then salvation (inheritance) would be based on WORKS (cf Matt 25:31-46). Now, an inheritance is not salvation. It is a birthright. Jesus is the firstborn, and as such, we share in His inheritance with Him. However, an inheritance CAN BE LOST. Remember, in any culture, but especially the Jewish culture, an inheritance was that which the father gave to his mature son. However, this, again, could be lost. Always interpret Scripture in light of its historical context. We are saved by virtue of being children, not by virtue of maturing!When Scripture speaks of inherit the kingdom of heaven he means that will we become a part of heaven ie we will be saved.
I agree that all sins are paid for. I argue strongly for the position in the Calvinism thread. Further, I believe that the only thing between man and God is unbelief, and thus, man must only believe to be saved. Thus, I further accept the claim that people go to Hell because they have rejected the gift of salvation. However, I reject that the gift is "having your sins paid off." EVERYONE has that, whether in Hell or not. People do NOT go to Hell because of their sins. They go to Hell because they are spirituall dead. They must be imputed with the life and righteousness of Christ. That is why the Resurrection is so very important! It is the Resurrection, not simply the Death, that saves. The Resurrection guarantees us life. It means that, when we die, we can be risen again in the same state that Jesus is risen, and thus, we can live with God. Because Jesus is NOW risen, we can be alive spirituall to God. However, when we die in our sins, we die seperated from God. We are thus sealed in that state.This ties into basic doctrine. Yes, we are all liars, fornicators, etc. However, Jesus Christ died on the Cross to save us from our sins. Our sins are paid for. Everyone's sins are paid for. People go to hell not because of their sins, but because of unbelief. They reject the gift of salvation and thus the gift of having your sins paid off.
It sounds to me as if you believe that baptism is necessary for salvation. What verses do you have to support this, and why does the gospel of John, the only book of the Bible written for the PURPOSE of bringing the lost person to saving faith, not list it as a condition?Our corrupt nature is so great and horrible that it can only be covered and forgiven before God in those baptized and believing. Furthermore, human nature, which is perverted and corrupted by original sin, must and can be healed only by the regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit. However, this healing is only BEGUN in this life. It will not be perfect until the life to come.
Hmm . . . so tell me where I'm off. According to your theology, to be saved, I must:What the verses that say fornicators, etc. will not inhereit the kingdom of heaven is saying is that people who are in unbelief (and thus reject the gift of cleansing of their sins) will be punished.
1. Belief in Jesus Christ (whatever that means)
2. Be baptized
3. Repent of my sins,
4. Pesevere in refraining from habitual sin,
5. Make a commitment to the Lordship of Jesus Christ.
I get (3) from the claim that fornicators and others on that list are people in unbelief. Therefore, it follows that those in belief are not those things, so they must have renounced those sins. I get (4) from the same claim. If homosexuals aren't saved because, after all, Paul CLEARLY says they don't inherit the Kingdom, then it follows that after they've repented, they can't fall back into that category again. Otherwise, that proves they only thought they believed. (5), then, is an extrapolation of these last two. To repent and persevere in faith and works is absolutely synonomous with submission to the Lordship of Christ.
If this is true, though:
1. How can you know you've really believed?
2. How can you know you won't at some later date disbelieve?
3. How can you know you are going to heaven?
4. How many times do you have to lie, or fornicate, or steal before you are considered a liar, fornicator, or thief, respectively?
5. How good of a life to you have to live to be sure you are living under the Lordship of Christ?
6. Given all this, what did Paul mean when he said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved!" What he preaching a partial gospel? An incorrect one? Is belief defined as baptism/repentance/submission/perseverance?
Again, I disagree. Paul says in 2 Cor. 5:10, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad." (NIV) Clearly, not everyone has done the same amount of good and bad. Therefore, it follows that not everyone will receive the same recognition!There is no ranking system in heaven. There will not be some Christians who will reign with Christ and others who will be servants. We will all reign with Christ and we will all be servants.
Jesus says this same thing. In the parable of the wicked steward (Luke 19:11-26). In that passage, there are some who are given rule over ten cities. Others are given rule over five cities. Others are given rule over nothing at all!
Paul solidifies this idea in 1 Cor. 3:13-15, saying "his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames." (NIV)
Clearly, some will receive a reward while others suffer loss, though they themselves will be saved. We could really continue with this a while. 2 Pet. 1:5-11 immediately comes to mind, as do other passages.
So, again, I disagree that there is no ranking system in heaven.
God bless
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue