Evidence for God from Science

The Pirahí£ people of Brazil have no concept of religion.

They have no creation stories or awareness of anything other than the material world.

"In particular Pirahí£ culture constrains communication to non-abstract
subjects which fall within the immediate experience of interlocutors. This constraint explains several very surprising features of Pirahí£ grammar and culture: the absence of creation myths and fiction; the simplest kinship system yet documented; the absence of numbers of any kind or a concept of counting; the absence of color terms; the absence of embedding in the grammar; the absence of 'relative tenses'; the borrowing of its entire pronoun inventory from Tupi; the fact that the Pirahí£ are monolingual after more than 200 years of regular contact with Brazilians and the Tupi-Guarani-speaking Kawahiv; the absence of any individual or collective memory of more than two generations past; the absence of drawing or other art and one of the simplest material cultures yet documented; the absence of any terms for quantification, e.g. 'all', 'each', 'every', 'most', 'some', etc."


The problem presented to Christians is that the Pirahí£ people challenge (amongst other things) the following verse:

'Rom 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
(from New International Version)'

There is also the idea that men are aware of the divine and reach for him as best they know (an innate perception, similar to conscience), thus the following verse regarding the 'Unknown God'.

Acts 17:23
For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you.
(from New International Version)

So the real question is 'why would God create a people who for thousands of years have no concept of Him, the spiritual aspect of existence, or indeed anything other than the immediate material?'

The Pirahí£ do not seem to reflect many of God's characteristics that we are lead to believe are present in created humanity, such as the desire to create, for example they have no art or creative expression, or even any type of fiction. They have not even thought it important enough to actually distinguish one colour from another.

I would really appreciate people's thoughts on this.

Regards,

Blacknad.

However they know about evil Spirits??? Interesting...

They have very little artwork. The artwork that is present, mostly necklaces and drawn stick-figures, is crude and used primarily to ward off evil spirits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirah%C3%A3_people

Some more Information on them

http://www.socioambiental.org/pib/epien ... iraha.shtm

They do seem to have a concept of religion....

http://www.geocities.com/tribes002/RELI ... BRAZIL.htm

Thanks All,

Much appreciated and should teach me a lesson - dig around a bit more instead of listening to atheists trying to make something of one report by Evans.

In fact, due to the fact that these people are monolingual and seem to have little contact with outsiders, it is likely that they have never discussed spirits with anyone else. This may mean that their belief in spirits arose entirely independently.

Regards,

Blacknad.

Blacknad wrote:Thanks All,

Much appreciated and should teach me a lesson - dig around a bit more instead of listening to atheists trying to make something of one report by Evans.

In fact, due to the fact that these people are monolingual and seem to have little contact with outsiders, it is likely that they have never discussed spirits with anyone else. This may mean that their belief in spirits arose entirely independently.

Regards,

Blacknad.

It's a common tactic of atheists to present strawmen. As you encounter more of them their tactics will become more transparent to you. I think you have learned not to never accept any of their arguments in good faith, always double-check the facts.

August wrote:

Blacknad wrote:Thanks All,

Much appreciated and should teach me a lesson - dig around a bit more instead of listening to atheists trying to make something of one report by Evans.

In fact, due to the fact that these people are monolingual and seem to have little contact with outsiders, it is likely that they have never discussed spirits with anyone else. This may mean that their belief in spirits arose entirely independently.

Regards,

Blacknad.

It's a common tactic of atheists to present strawmen. As you encounter more of them their tactics will become more transparent to you. I think you have learned not to never accept any of their arguments in good faith, always double-check the facts.

Strawmen are not the private domain of any group. Even Christians set them up on occassion.

No one here of course ......

Blacknad,
I'd like to touch on something that...

...you wrote
[/quote]In fact, due to the fact that these people are monolingual and seem to have little contact with outsiders, it is likely that they have never discussed spirits with anyone else. This may mean that their belief in spirits arose entirely independently.

Notice the last sentence you wrote. This is very interesting. I'd say that their belief in spirits DID arise entirely, even though I don't have any evidence to support this. Here is why: Ecclesiastes 3:11 says "God has placed eternity in the HEARTS of man". Ok, with that in mind, tell me why mankind, you know, human beings have ALWAYS believed in a God, Higher Power, or creator/s of some sort, every since we can remember. Now within each people group, it does vary as to "who" their god/higher power is, (some believe in gods), but most all of them up until the last few centuries have believed in a god. This confirms what Eclessiastes says, that eternity is in their hearts, (the inside of them, perhaps their conscience or intuition). and means that their is an internal knowing that God exists. Thus, if God does exist, then that could very well mean that the Pirahí£ people of Brazil's belief in spirits did arise independantly, from their hearts, which contains an internal knowing that God exists. Because the Bible says in John that God is spirit, and because He creates humans by breathing life and spirit into them, that means that in their very being lies an intuitive concept of a higher power of some sort, and especially the spiritual realm and things beyond the grave and beyond the natural. It's part of their make up as humans. Well, hope this helps, just wanting to give food for thought.

Be Blessed,
LowlyOne[/quote]