Evidence for God from Science

Is someone able to answer this?

A person I know of who was a Children's Pastor, decided to be a homosexual this past month. She had accepted Jesus Christ into her life.

Since Homosexuals won't go to Heaven (1 Corinthians 6:9).
1. Does that mean she isn't saved?
2. Did Jesus Christ come into her life when she asked Him to?

led wrote:Is someone able to answer this?

A person I know of who was a Children's Pastor, decided to be a homosexual this past month. She had accepted Jesus Christ into her life.

Since Homosexuals won't go to Heaven (1 Corinthians 6:9).
1. Does that mean she isn't saved?
2. Did Jesus Christ come into her life when she asked Him to?

You've framed the question in a manner I don't necessarily agree with.

1. I think Heaven will be filled with previous sinners including: murderers (David), Polygamists (the Patriarchs), those who committed incest (Lot), Prostitutes, and homosexuals and even more amazingly, I hope, possibly even me.

2. In terms of this specific case, I don't know if she is or isn't saved. God does. There certainly is a serious issue there to address; obedience at the least and salvation at the most.

3. In terms of loss of salvation or not, that's more a general question than a specific one here. I don't profess to have the absolute answer there either though I have opinions.

Oh, I'm talking about sexual immorality. Someone who lives in sin. I'm not talking about people who make mistakes... we all do that.

Let me ask it this way, if it helps.

1. At the present time, today, does that mean she isn't saved.

No, it doesn't mean she isn't saved. I'm not saying that she is. I don't know. If she has trusted Christ for her salvation and nothing else, then she's saved, but I obviously don't know that.

Let's put the question another way:

• "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor. 6:9-10, NIV)

We have a list of vices here: Extra-marital sex, idolatry, adultry, prostitution, homosexuality, theft, greed, drunkeness, slander, and swindling. The argument she is not going to heaven would be based on this passage would mean that no one who "practices" ANY of the sins on this list would go to heaven.

Question: How can I know that, at some point in my life, I won't fall into one of these sins? Idolatry is certainly a common one. How many people "worship the dollar"? Drunkeness is pretty common, too. Are all alcoholics going to Hell? How do I know I won't fall into that some time in the future? Slander is a pretty big one, too. Do I know for a 100% that in some future time, I won't become disenfranchised and begin to take it out on other people via slander?

The argument is that if I'm really saved, I won't fall into those. If I'm not really saved, then I might (though not necessarily). Therefore, the only way to know that I won't fall into these is to know that I am saved; but this children's pastor is evidence that we can be pretty darn sure we're saved and fall into just such a lifestyle!

The point is, if you read the passage the way you are, then you cannot have complete assurance of your own, nor anyone else's salvation. And that, my friend, is dangerous, because if Calvin was right and assurance is of the very essence of saving faith, then a lack of assurance can imply a lack of salvation. You can't have one without the other (John 5:24; 6:47, etc.)

The good news is that Paul was writing to Christians who had fallen into various sins. The issue at stake was not their salvation, but their inheritance. Is it any wonder that it is in these two epistles that we have our primary statements concerning future rewards?

God bless

If she is unrepentant and denies Christ (practices iniquity) before man she is unsaved. You know followers of Christ by thier fruits. Does she not believe all that Christ says? Apparently not if she thinks being homosexual is ok with God.

Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

If she continues in this path (unrepentant sin) she will not enter in for she chooses to practice iniquity. If she repents of her sin and the prodigal turns back to the Lord she will be forgiven and inherit eternal life.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:


Does she not know what the Word teaches regarding homosexuality? And she teaches children? NOT GOOD!

Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Since Homosexuals won't go to Heaven (1 Corinthians 6:9).
1. Does that mean she isn't saved?

Do you think the unsaved go to heaven?

IRQ Conflict wrote:

Since Homosexuals won't go to Heaven (1 Corinthians 6:9).
1. Does that mean she isn't saved?

Do you think the unsaved go to heaven?

So your saying that she lost her salvation?

1 Corinthians 5:9-13
"I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person. For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person."

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."

Romans 1:22-27
"Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due."

led wrote:Is someone able to answer this?

A person I know of who was a Children's Pastor, decided to be a homosexual this past month. She had accepted Jesus Christ into her life.

Since Homosexuals won't go to Heaven (1 Corinthians 6:9).
1. Does that mean she isn't saved?
2. Did Jesus Christ come into her life when she asked Him to?

Question - was this in a liberal church?

A tree in known by its fruit, so I guess the answer cannot be known till her story ends.

What motivated her to change? If she really loved Jesus, would she have chosen as she did? Does her Human love superceed love for God?

Next, does she change her mind often and is easily swayed? What does her church think of this?

Next, would you feel comfortable having her teach Sunday School to your kids?

Locker wrote: Question - was this in a liberal church?

Holy Spirit Liberal Church

Locker wrote:A tree in known by its fruit, so I guess the answer cannot be known till her story ends.

What motivated her to change? If she really loved Jesus, would she have chosen as she did? Does her Human love superceed love for God?

As of now, I would guess it does superceed her love for God.

Locker wrote:Next, does she change her mind often and is easily swayed? What does her church think of this?

They removed her and warned the body not to fellowship with her. They bass this on 1 Cor. 5:11-13.

Locker wrote:Next, would you feel comfortable having her teach Sunday School to your kids?

NOPE! Funny you asked. The kids want to hang around her and ask for her. They call her teacher .

Your either saved or your not. If she is child of God who is washed in the blood, sealed with the Spirit until the day of redemption, and has Christ as her mediator then it would only make sense that she is going to heaven.

Christians do fall into sin. Some for extended period of time. If there are any here who have not I would love to hear your secret.

Instead of judging them it might be a little more beneficial to lovingly and gently help her to find her way back. If she never really received christ as her savior then it's all a mute point.

Either way she shouldn't be allowed to serve in any way in the church.

led wrote:

IRQ Conflict wrote:

Since Homosexuals won't go to Heaven (1 Corinthians 6:9).
1. Does that mean she isn't saved?

Do you think the unsaved go to heaven?

So your saying that she lost her salvation?

If she keeps in hew ways. Yes, definitely.

I would have to believe that if the rapture were to happen now that she would be left behind . There a chance I would be left behind too.

I also have to believe that God will give a second chance to these good hearted, but misguided people.

The history of the church is full of sexual immorality and homosexual behavior. The history of the Catholic church and natives is disgusting.

Recently the news released that one of the hostages rescued in Iraq (Looney a Canadian) is a practicing homosexual. So he is in a christian organization willing to risk his life for God's work , yet not saved ? Yet I think the Bible is pretty clear on homosexuality being an abomination to the Lord.

Thou shalt not lie with a male as one who lieth with a female, for it is an abomination, saith the Lord.

However, I can't cast the first stone. Celibacy is the First Step to Healing
http://www.nccg.org/013.html

Hate the sin . Love the Sinner!

Mike the Bluesman

bluesman wrote:However, I can't cast the first stone.

The church was in tears over her. The whole service was in morning.
We love her very much. But 1Cor. 5:11-13 tells us to judge those in the church.

bluesman wrote:Hate the sin . Love the Sinner!

It's still affecting the whole church because we love her so much.

The church was in tears over her. The whole service was in morning.
We love her very much. But 1Cor. 5:11-13 tells us to judge those in the church.

I think the church membership is right in deciding not to let her be a pastor there anymore especially to children.

Its certainly right to shed tears over a lost sheep.

What does the Head Pastor say about it?

Was she expecting acceptance of her sexuality and to stay on as pastor?

I think all the membership can do is to offer her healing as a church member only. Its my belief that her pastor role there should be over.

Mike the Bluesman

bluesman wrote:What does the Head Pastor say about it?

He's finding it hard to deal with. The body seems split on the issue and he's trying to keep them in unity.

bluesman wrote:Was she expecting acceptance of her sexuality and to stay on as pastor?

Yes.

Some are accepting her sexuality. Some see her as still a Christian that needs love, and she's getting sympathy and acceptance...thus the split of the body. The sympathy is helping her believe that it's ok.

Perhaps some of you here could pray for wisdom and unity.