Dr. Doom, or the logical moral consequence of evolution?

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August
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Dr. Doom, or the logical moral consequence of evolution?

Post by August »

Here is a summary of a speech given at UT recently by Dr Eric Pianka, evolutionary ecologist, and named Texas Distinguished Scientist for 2006, at the Texas Academy of Science. My comments follow the quote.

http://www.sas.org/tcs/weeklyIssues_200 ... index.html
But there was a gravely disturbing side to that otherwise scientifically significant meeting, for I watched in amazement as a few hundred members of the Texas Academy of Science rose to their feet and gave a standing ovation to a speech that enthusiastically advocated the elimination of 90 percent of Earth's population by airborne Ebola. The speech was given by Dr. Eric R. Pianka (Fig. 1), the University of Texas evolutionary ecologist and lizard expert who the Academy named the 2006 Distinguished Texas Scientist.

...snip...

One of Pianka's earliest points was a condemnation of anthropocentrism, or the idea that humankind occupies a privileged position in the Universe. He told a story about how a neighbor asked him what good the lizards are that he studies. He answered, “What good are you?”

Pianka hammered his point home by exclaiming, “We're no better than bacteria!”

Pianka then began laying out his concerns about how human overpopulation is ruining the Earth. He presented a doomsday scenario in which he claimed that the sharp increase in human population since the beginning of the industrial age is devastating the planet. He warned that quick steps must be taken to restore the planet before it's too late.

Saving the Earth with Ebola

Professor Pianka said the Earth as we know it will not survive without drastic measures . Then, and without presenting any data to justify this number, he asserted that the only feasible solution to saving the Earth is to reduce the population to 10 percent of the present number.

He then showed solutions for reducing the world's population in the form of a slide depicting the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse . War and famine would not do, he explained. Instead, disease offered the most efficient and fastest way to kill the billions that must soon die if the population crisis is to be solved.

Pianka then displayed a slide showing rows of human skulls, one of which had red lights flashing from its eye sockets.

AIDS is not an efficient killer, he explained, because it is too slow. His favorite candidate for eliminating 90 percent of the world's population is airborne Ebola ( Ebola Reston ), because it is both highly lethal and it kills in days, instead of years. However, Professor Pianka did not mention that Ebola victims die a slow and torturous death as the virus initiates a cascade of biological calamities inside the victim that eventually liquefy the internal organs.

After praising the Ebola virus for its efficiency at killing, Pianka paused, leaned over the lectern, looked at us and carefully said, “We've got airborne 90 percent mortality in humans. Killing humans. Think about that.”

With his slide of human skulls towering on the screen behind him, Professor Pianka was deadly serious. The audience that had been applauding some of his statements now sat silent.

After a dramatic pause, Pianka returned to politics and environmentalism. But he revisited his call for mass death when he reflected on the oil situation.

“And the fossil fuels are running out,” he said, “so I think we may have to cut back to two billion, which would be about one-third as many people.” So the oil crisis alone may require eliminating two-third's of the world's population.

How soon must the mass dying begin if Earth is to be saved? Apparently fairly soon, for Pianka suggested he might be around when the killer disease goes to work. He was born in 1939, and his lengthy obituary appears on his web site .

When Pianka finished his remarks, the audience applauded. It wasn't merely a smattering of polite clapping that audiences diplomatically reserve for poor or boring speakers. It was a loud, vigorous and enthusiastic applause.


So here we go, this is the logical conclusion of the theory of evolution, humans are no better than bacteria, or lizards. I suppose that Pianka should be commended for his honesty to publicly state his beliefs, and the total lack of morals that follow from his position.

However, he seems to want be God, he gets to decide what is best for the planet and everything on it.

I stand amazed that he does not see the utter hypocrisy in his position. On the one hand he states that humans are no better than bacteria, on the other hand he sees himself as better than every other living thing, because he has a "solution" to "save the planet". If he is no better than bacteria, why should his solution be better than anyone elses? Why should we describe any value to anyone who sees lizards as equal worth to a human life? By which standard does he want to justify his call for mass murder, the morals of bacteria or lizards?
Acts 17:24-25 (NIV)
"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. [25] And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else."

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Re: Dr. Doom, or the logical moral consequence of evolution?

Post by Canuckster1127 »

When I first read this, my response was that there must be some interpretation problems. The article, when you read it, is essentially a second hand story based on hearsay from the actual talk.

So, I did some quick research to see if there were a rebuttal or clarification somewhere.

Here is what I found on a blogspot, put up by someone directly there. It certainly is alraming and disturbing.

http://brenmccnnll.blogspot.com/2006/03/dr.html


Dr. Pianka was named the 2006 Distinguished Scientist by the Texas Academy of Science. He's an ecologist, a "doomsday ecologist" as he puts it, with a CV several pages long and results that have changed the way ecologists think, forever. And damn is he ever entertaining to listen to.

Dr. Pianka's talk at the TAS meeting was mostly of the problems humans are causing as we rapidly proliferate around the globe. While what he had to say is way too vast to remember it all, moreover to relay it here in this blog, the bulk of his talk was that he's waiting for the virus that will eventually arise and kill off 90% of human population. In fact, his hope, if you can call it that, is that the ebola virus which attacks humans currently (but only through blood transmission) will mutate with the ebola virus that attacks monkeys airborne to create an airborne ebola virus that attacks humans. He's a radical thinker, that one! I mean, he's basically advocating for the death of all but 10% of the current population! And at the risk of sounding just as radical, I think he's right.

Humans are far too populous. We've used up our resources, and we're destroying the Earth at an accelerated pace. The more technology we create, the more damage we're capable of doing. We now consider keeping the forest natural to save a species of catepillar more important that using that space for humans to live and till. And I'm in complete agreement with that. It's the harsh reality that many people alive right now should be dead. And even harsher to think that the world would be better off with them dead too. My grandparents, who I love dearly and am so incredibly thankful to know, are honestly being kept alive only through the technology that we have created via medicine. The same goes for the millions of other old folk alive and kicking and will continue to do so for another 5-10 years, using up more resources. Or think of all the babies being born every hour with abnormalities that 50 years ago would have kept them from living. Now, those lives can be saved, and we pat ourselves on the backs at how smart and charitable we are as a species that we can create and sustain life. For those against cloning, etc because it's "playing God," how is this any different?? Life has a built-in mechanism that keeps species from becoming too overpopulated, and it wasn't until humans started messing with the system that it went out of whack. Now that we've killed off the majority of all top predators, we now must take on the duty of keeping populations in check and at the same time, allowing other species a fair chance at reproduction.

It wouldn't have been so bad 15-20 years ago when we reached that threshold of sustainability if we as humans would have learned to control our population size then. But instead, we saw the Earth's resources as unlimited and our authority over them exclusive, and we continued to reproduce when we should've stop. Dr. Pianka made a very profound comment during his presentation; he said that China has the right idea by limiting reproduction at 1. We're past the point of replacement reproduction as a species. We're too many for the number we're at now! We need to decline in population. A virus is probably the fairest method of extermination (though still not completely fair, I admit) because it's nondiscriminatory as to whom it targets. Rich, poor, black, white, brown, nice, mean, religious, agnostic - we'd all be targeted equally. The only difference is who can afford medicine and even then, if it's a mutated virus that strikes fast, humans would have only the tiniest of a chance to find a cure in time so money wouldn't matter.

It'd be nice if humans could learn to manage our population as successively as we've learned to manage the population of literally every other species on this planet with whom we share. We're very skilled when it comes to killing off deer, snakes, rabbits, and fish for population control. But we're a stupid species when it comes to managing ourselves. An insightful observation was made during the talk that education should be the key to learning how to take care of the Earth, but the problem is that the educated have fewer children and the uneducated have many children. So eventually, the uneducated will take over the Earth. It may have already happened.
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Re: Dr. Doom, or the logical moral consequence of evolution?

Post by August »

Canuckster1127 wrote:When I first read this, my response was that there must be some interpretation problems. The article, when you read it, is essentially a second hand story based on hearsay from the actual talk.
Did you click through on the link? The article was written by a member of the TAS, and actually chairs the environmental science section of the TAS. He was physically present at the speech. I hardly think that is "a second hand story based on hearsay."
Acts 17:24-25 (NIV)
"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. [25] And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else."

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//christianskepticism.blogspot.com
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Re: Dr. Doom, or the logical moral consequence of evolution?

Post by Canuckster1127 »

August wrote:
Canuckster1127 wrote:When I first read this, my response was that there must be some interpretation problems. The article, when you read it, is essentially a second hand story based on hearsay from the actual talk.
Did you click through on the link? The article was written by a member of the TAS, and actually chairs the environmental science section of the TAS. He was physically present at the speech. I hardly think that is "a second hand story based on hearsay."
Uh .... August .... Why didn't you quote and read my entire statement? I stated that was my initial response. I did read the entire article and then I did some additional searching and concluded the article was accurate and further endorsed what you were saying.

I see the author was directly there. There was an intro from the editor and that's where my confusion entered it.

The blog I put up, was from another there and it appears they cerainly got that message and in that case endorsed it.

Pretty sick.

;)
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Post by August »

Sorry Canuckster, it was not entirely clear to me where you quoted the blog, and where you added your own comments.

Some student comments from his website seems to indicate he is pretty dangerous:
" This is the closest thing this university has to a true religion course and Pianka is the perfect preacher. In other science courses we are taught to look at things specifically and therefore lose the big picture. In this class we study the big picture. 'Why are we here?' That question is answered in evolution. Everyone should be required to take this class to 'spread the word.'"
"Everyone should be required to take this class to "spread the word.", "I worship Dr. Pianka", "I knew this would be a most interesting class the first day when Dr. Pianka downed homocentrism."
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/%7Evaranus/evaluations.html
Acts 17:24-25 (NIV)
"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. [25] And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else."

//www.omnipotentgrace.org
//christianskepticism.blogspot.com
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Post by Blacknad »

Someone posted Dr Doom on http://www.scienceagogo.com under a thread called science will save us.

A scientist with two PHDs responded, known as Uncle Al:
90% cut, 600 million remaining, is too deep a cut to sustain technolgical civilization.

Stop all manner and means of State-mandated charity. The problem will solve itself at zero cost with zero effort. Think of it as evolution in action. If things spill over, support evolution - shoot back.

Let's run some numbers. China has 1.5 billion people, India has 1.1 billion people, Africa has 900 million people, the US has 300 million people, the planet has 6+ billion people. Now then...

China keeps 300 million useful people
India keeps 200 million useful people
Africa keeps 50 million useful people
The US keeps 150 million useful people.
----------------------------------------
World population drops to half, 3 billion people, and nobody is missed. Now trim Central and South America plus Arabia, Europe, Russia, and Southeast Asia: no unproductive pensioners suckling the public teat, no welfare cases. 4+ billion parasites are gone overall, leaving 2- billion productive human beings.

That would be wonderful! Simply stop sending Welfare checks. The useless will starve.
And if you think this guy isn't for real just go there and read some of his recent posts - he's got a brain the size of a planet but a heart the size of a walnut. This is truly where Atheism leads us, all those Atheists who disagree with him simply haven't got the strength of their convictions and don't understand what evolution is really about.

When you dispense with the sanctity of life, there is no limit to what you can rationally prescribe.

Oh, just realised that Puritan Lad actually agrees with him. How strange.

Regards,

Blacknad.
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OK, everybody sit down and be quiet

Post by sandy_mcd »

I've known of Forrest M. Mims III for some time (at least since flap over his dismissal from Scientific American years ago) and he seems to be a character (at least). Based on that and apparent absence of corroborating accounts, I (at this time) believe this to be a more accurate account. [Note also that Dr Mims has petitioned to have the distinguished scientist award revoked even though the award has nothing to do with Pianka's overpopulation beliefs and despite the fact the Mims himself was booted from SA for beliefs not related to his columns.].
http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=4720390 wrote:UT Professor Clearing The Record On Speech
April 3, 2006, 04:56 PM

Reports of a UT scientist's plan for mass extermination of the human race got our attention Monday.

News 36 tried to get to the bottom of a controversial theory that is spawning death threats on campus and controversy across the country.

Some are accusing a UT scientist of advocating genocide to control the world's population.

Does it sound crazy?

The professor whose ideas are under scrutiny says it's not just crazy, it's not true.

UT Ecology Professor Dr. Eric Pianka does not want everyone on Earth dead.

"I don't bear any ill will towards anybody," Pianka said.

But many bear ill will towards this soft spoken University of Texas ecologist.

"I got a really great death threat," Pianka said.

He's getting death threats such as threatening the slaughter of his family after recent speeches pushing for population control.

"If we don't control our population, microbes will. Why do we have these lethal microbes that kill us in the first place? The answer is, there's too many of us," Pianka said.

Pianka says he would never advocate genocide or extermination like some suggest he does.

"I've got two granddaughters, man. I'm putting money in a college fund for my granddaughters. I'm worried about them," Pianka said.

He said he believes criticism of his theory about an inevitable plague on mankind comes from a rival jealous about his distinguished scientist award from the Texas Academy of Science.

"He's an avowed enemy, and he's made this very clear that he's going to get me and take me down," Pianka said.

Pianka has the full backing of UT behind him as radical as his ideas are to some.

"We have a lot of different points of view on the University of Texas at Austin campus. And we certainly support our faculty in saying what they think," UT spokesman Don Hale said.

After 50 years of ecological study and writing nearly 20 books, Pianka said he thinks the world's in trouble and wants everyone to know.

"We're taking over this Earth and not leaving anything for anything else on this Earth," Pianka said.

We tried to contact the guy Pianka says is behind this smear campaign. He did not get back to us.

This is not over. Pianka said he'll be on two cable talk shows Tuesday including MSNBC to try and clear his name.
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Over population yeah right?!

Post by bluesman »

I get tired of this old school believe that the whole problem is Over-population
and lack of resources.

The resources are there in plentiful supply. The equal and proper distribution
is not. It because too many worship the mammon!!

There is no shortage of wind and solar, but the slow investment to harness it.
We don't need oil from the oil fields we can get it from plants.
The uses of hemp are just amazing.

How much money is say spent on sports in just the USA and Canada?
What if that was re-invested to health care?

What if the billions spent on wars in the middle east were re-invested to better the lives of people there?

What is the answer the bible gives? God could provide for all of us!
However, we don't listen and therefore the tribulation is coming!
Yes and disease is going to kill many left behind.

Mike the Bluesman
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Post by AttentionKMartShoppers »

I have a question...Are you one of these by any chance?



Image

Just gettin' one of those vibes...
"My actions prove that God takes care of idiots."

He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened.
- On Stanley Baldwin

-Winston Churchill

An atheist can't find God for the same reason a criminal can't find a police officer.

You need to start asking out girls so that you can get used to the rejections.
-Anonymous
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Like Groovy Man! Far out!

Post by bluesman »

Since I was only born in 1966 I can hardly be an old hippie or even a young one. I think the music back in the 60's was great and peace and love admirable qualities. I don't believe in drugs and Jimi Hendrix didn't play very well when he was stoned.

I think you are commenting on my hemp statement. Now hemp is from a different plant than the stuff that gets you high. You could smoke a field of Hemp and only suffer smoke inhalation like in a fire.
However, hemp grows so easily without chemicals and provides textile for clothing and rope etc etc.
The problem is political and changing to hemp would change who holds power and wealth.


Mike the Bluesman
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Re: Over population yeah right?!

Post by BGoodForGoodSake »

bluesman wrote: What if the billions spent on wars in the middle east were re-invested to better the lives of people there?
Well it's not quite this simple. Productivity is the source of this wealth. An economy is driven by goods and services provided. War is one major impetus for this. Reinvestment into social welfare will sadly diminish the amount of available capital.

So simply, it is the war itself which is driving a good portion of the economy.
It is not length of life, but depth of life. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Re: Over population yeah right?!

Post by Canuckster1127 »

This story is starting to go mainstream now.

Check out this link

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12151519/
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Post by puritan lad »

Blacknad wrote:Oh, just realised that Puritan Lad actually agrees with him. How strange.
That's liberalism for you. They are always generous with other people's money.

Of course you lost the intellectual aspect when you encouraged me to seek advice from the reknowned Christian Scholar Bono :lol:
"To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect." - JOHN OWEN

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Post by Canuckster1127 »

puritan lad wrote:
Blacknad wrote:Oh, just realised that Puritan Lad actually agrees with him. How strange.
That's liberalism for you. They are always generous with other people's money.

Of course you lost the intellectual aspect when you encouraged me to seek advice from the reknowned Christian Scholar Bono :lol:
It could have been worse. At least it wasn't Sonny Bono. ;)
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Post by puritan lad »

Canuckster1127 wrote:
puritan lad wrote:
Blacknad wrote:Oh, just realised that Puritan Lad actually agrees with him. How strange.
That's liberalism for you. They are always generous with other people's money.

Of course you lost the intellectual aspect when you encouraged me to seek advice from the reknowned Christian Scholar Bono :lol:
It could have been worse. At least it wasn't Sonny Bono. ;)
SHHHH!!! Don't say that or he'll really get messed up. :lol:
"To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect." - JOHN OWEN

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