Evidence for God from Science

Love is the central theme of NT....unlike in OT, the nation of Israel was asked to drive out all the bad people.

Yes, war is justified in my opinion. I think the NT makes it clear that self-defense is okay. I think the OT wars were out of necessity, to save their lives. God knows that life isn't as simple as "let's all just get along". War to save the lives of others is a just war as well. Kosavo is a good example.

Iraq is a 100% different situation though. We were lead to believe that Iraqi freedom was worth it, but it's so much bigger than that. Vietnam proved that war needs to be very...carefully...examined...or else we will fool ourself into thinking that we're killing for the right reasons, and end up making things worse than they ever were before.

The edge wrote:Love is the central theme of NT....unlike in OT, the nation of Israel was asked to drive out all the bad people.

If Christ said the scriptures spoke of him, where do you get the idea that the central theme of the OT was anything other than love?

The only scriptures available to Christ *WAS* the OT!
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Pardon the way I worded it.
Yes Love was in OT as well.
However, Christ seems to emphasize giving the other cheek even when we're being offended.
So doesn't this apply to a country level as well?

No. I firmly believe the cheek lesson was about not fighting back for stupid crap. When countries are involved, there is far more at stake than just your own skin.

Well, when countries are involved you need to be absolutely sure, that it is absolutely necessary.

A president has a lot to think about, and when he's told, "Mr. President, rebels in a South American country are starting an uprising!"
A natural response would be "Well, bomb the f**kers!"

But a good Christian knows that an action like that should be a last resort.

yeah im sure Jesus loooooovvvvvvvvveeeedddd war

The edge wrote:Love is the central theme of NT....unlike in OT, the nation of Israel was asked to drive out all the bad people.

I disagree, I see alot of love in the OT. God was protecting his children that followed his instructions from those who did not. One case was Deu 2:24-37 The israelites asked to be allowed to move through a nation in peace, but were disallowed by that nations ruler, so god gave them that nation instead.
When his children stopped following his instructions he stopped protecting them. Joshua 7:1-26

As for, should christians participate in war, not against another christian nation, after all we are all citizens of heaven.

I don't believe we should stand by an watch other children of god, even when they don't follow gods instructions being mistreated, especially if they can not defend themselves.

Shirtless wrote:I think the NT makes it clear that self-defense is okay.

How? The only scirpture in the NT that I can think of that speaks of self defense is "turn the other cheek" and "live by the sword and you shall die by it's blade". And both of those are pretty anti-self-defense.

Jesus tells the apostles to take two swords with them when they go somewhere(don't remember the exact verses). And those two quotes have nothing to do with self defence really. getting slapped was a sign of mockery and jesus advised against getting into fights over honor(something the jews lived by). the same with the garden. Peter(I think he was the one who cut the soldier's ear off) was recklessly getting into a fight he could not win. Not to mention the fact that Jesus had to die.

As for, should christians participate in war, not against another christian nation, after all we are all citizens of heaven.

Except that Christians are not all located in "Christian nations." When you go to war with another country, that "enemy" you just shot could just as well been another Christian. I don't think Christians should participate in war because they simply don't know who they are killing. And I also agree with those who said that it goes against the teachings of Jesus.

There are no "Christian nations" except one: the kingdom of God. And the citizens of that kingdom are spread throughout the nations of the world.

O

Once4all wrote:And I also agree with those who said that it goes against the teachings of Jesus.

Jesus never said anything about war.

Mastermind wrote:

Once4all wrote:And I also agree with those who said that it goes against the teachings of Jesus.

Jesus never said anything about war.

Is that so?

Mat 24:6 "You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.

(Repeated in Mark 13:7 and Luke 21.9)

O

Once4all wrote:

Mastermind wrote:

Once4all wrote:And I also agree with those who said that it goes against the teachings of Jesus.

Jesus never said anything about war.

Is that so?

Mat 24:6 "You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.

O

That's not speaking against it though. That's just saying that wars will come, but those wars won't mean the end. I don't see anywhere where it states "don't go to those wars".

I don't see anything wrong with honorable justified warfare. If you don't hate the person you're fighting, if you try your best to capture them and not kill them, and if you treat them with as much dignity and respect as one of your own, you're basically making a stand for what you believe and what they believe.

Thou shalt not murder.

Murder is not the same as killing someone in live combat, it's close but in live combat both sides basically forfeit their rights to quarter and mercy. If an enemy surrenders, you capture them, you don't kill them. But if they don't, then basically there's an agreement that the two of you are perfectly fine with the possibility that you will be killed.