Christian2 wrote:Can anyone convince me that Jesus taught "original sin" -- that all men have fallen because of the sin of Adam?
Thanks.
Hopefully, I can convince you of more than that. That in fact, you have fallen because of your own sin. And that your sin, is the Same sin, by which Adam fell.
Now don't go jumping to any conclusions, my friend. It's just that, I believe, that Most people, do not even know what Adam's sin was. Or maybe they know what it was, but they do not know "how" they themselves, do commit this sin each and everyday.
I believe this, because I myself, am guilty of the same. Yet, for YEARS (i won't tell you how many), I "thought" as you do. As everybody does. That because of Adam, I am condemned. But that is not true! We are condemned by our Own sins. By our own Fears! Or rather, by our "acceptance" of fear.
Because you see my friend, that is, "how" sin takes us. Entering in *through our emotions*, evil spirits (if you will pardon my use of those two words), tempt us to Fear, and to Doubt, and to Disbelieve.
Have you ever read the story? And I mean, for your-Self, have you read it, without taking the word of someone else, as to what it says, or what it means? I did. Genesis 3 (paraphrased by me): But then the Serpent came! And he Tricked Eve, into believing that God had Tricked her! That in fact, He, God, was taking advantage her, and Oppressing her by keeping her, from that which would make her "equal" with GOD. The Fruit, of the tree, of knowledge, "of good and Evil".
Read it, and think about it my friend. For the Serpent had just convinced Eve, that God had LIED to her, (as she Now knew, that she would not die). And that He was Cheating her, (as He would keep this "knowledge" that would make her "like God", from her). And worst of all that, God Himself, was Evil, as He had "Betrayed her"! And she knew that this was true. As once, she had trusted Him. Even, "believed" in Him. Oooh, but not anymore! For now, with her *emotions* running high, she was becoming "Self"-conscious, Self-centered, and even, Self-Aware!
I'll let you take it from there as to, "What all would go through "your" mind, if you had just found out that you had been Raped by a Monster?" For in truth, this is exactly, what Eve now believed as her new found "self-awareness", would make her also aware, of just how Evil, God really is!
But don't take my word for it! Read it for yourself! And you will See, that it was at this point, when a "separation" occurred. For as Eve now knew, what she "thought" was the truth. She would separate herself from God, and God from herself, with these simple thoughts, "You mean, I'm not like god? No! I am Not like God. For GOD is High, and I am low. And I would Never have done to my child, that which HE has done to me."
Ok so maybe her "thoughts" are not written in the scripture; but let me ask you this. "What would you have thought, if the serpent had just come to you, and said; "Ye shall Not surely die! For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."
Be as the gods? Well now wait a minute!
You mean, I'm not like god?
You mean, God has deprived me?
You see what I mean my friend? There is More to reading the bible than just reading the bible. You have to BE THERE to See exactly what is going on. Eve and Adam, and even God; had been running around the garden all day, and Eve, had Never noticed any difference "before". She just simply "accepted god" for who and what he was. And herself, for who and what she was. Which, were "servants". Equal, in stature. Each serving and served, even as each served, and were serving. (Action, Reaction!)
Even Jesus said; "no man is above his master, but it is enough that he be equal with him." and, "he who would be master of all, let him be a servant to all." So you see, I'm not just making this stuff up. God is Not, some Pie in the Sky, "Supreme Being", that is So "Far Above" us that, there can be no reasoning with him! I mean, that's what Everybody believes. Especially the Muslims. And even the Jews as Moses would take them to See god but that, they in Fear said; "No, NO, Moses! YOU go see God. Then you can tell us what He said."
It is Fear then, that keeps us From god. And yes, the bible says that "love" conquers all fear but...
but, it's not quite that easy, is it? I mean, "What would people think if you told them that, "we Are, just like God?" Why, they would Laugh at you! Ridicule you! Curse you! And in all ways, Persecute you.
Enter, Adam! and the sin that takes us all!
"PRIDE!!!"
Genesis 3:6 "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food (knowledge), and that it was pleasant to the eyes (profitable), and a tree to be desired to make one wise (Like God), she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband ***with her***; and he did eat."
That's right my friend. Adam had been standing there the whole time. And with his friends, all now doing drugs (so to speak), ...well, what else could he do? Just say No?
Ok! So then tell me my friend; "How many times has a friend, girl friend, wife, husband or boy friend, urged you to do something that, you really didn't want to do, but that for *fear* of "persecution/repercussions", *You Did Eat*?
And when I say repercussions, know that I include, Yelling, Screaming, Crying, Throwing things, Violence in general, and even, "the loss of your friend".
Collapsing therefore under "Peer Pressure!!!"; Adam, became a victim of his own EGO!!!
Can I convince you that Jesus taught "that all men have fallen because of the sin of Adam?"
No. I cannot convince you of that. Because the truth is, all men have fallen because of their own sin, which is the SAME sin, of which Adam was guilty. Even "as" Adam, *Giving way to "societies" demands and expectations for us, we crumble under the pressure, and submit ourselves to hell and damnation*. Adam, was simply the first.
Nevertheless, as "the son can do nothing of himself, but that which he sees the father do, he doeth", the real question you need to answer is, "who's your daddy? Adam? or Jesus?" For if Adam, then like Adam you will be, and do. But if Jesus.............