Creation Seminars

[godslanguage]

Has anyone seen these videos:

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evolutio ... hovind.htm

What do you think about them?

[godslanguage]

What was interesting to me was when he stated the the world population was only 250 million in christs time (BC). Now, Im a little confused about the age of the earth, but if this is true, then the only thing that makes sense is a young earth.

[Canuckster1127]

What was interesting to me was when he stated the the world population was only 250 million in christs time (BC). Now, Im a little confused about the age of the earth, but if this is true, then the only thing that makes sense is a young earth.

Kent Hovind is a Young Earth Creationist.

I lost most of what respect I had for him when he appeared on the John Ankerburg Show to debate Hugh Ross and basically called Ross a Heretic despite promising earlier he would be civil.

He is also pretty well known for his Quarter Million Dollar challenge to anyone who can give him proof of evolution.

He's a capable debater, a mediocre scientist and a very bombastic and rude person when he cannot handle facts presented to him with which he does not agree.

That's my opinion ofhim anyway.

[godslanguage]

Well, the way I look at it, is: does he have to be a scientist with 300 iq, NO he does'nt. There are the scientists and there are those who speak the science. Whether or not he is mediocre, he still uses scientific facts, and good ones too in my opinion.

Its good that he made the offer of 1 million, I don't believe in evolution (most of it) and as far as I'm concerned, evolution is a hoax. So its in his right to do that, because people are recieving the wrong information.

[Canuckster1127]

Well, the way I look at it, is: does he have to be a scientist with 300 iq, NO he does'nt. There are the scientists and there are those who speak the science. Whether or not he is mediocre, he still uses scientific facts, and good ones too in my opinion.

Its good that he made the offer of 1 million, I don't believe in evolution (most of it) and as far as I'm concerned, evolution is a hoax. So its in his right to do that, because people are recieving the wrong information.

I am not an evolutionist and I agree with him in that regard.

Hugh Ross is not an evolutionist either. He is a Christian Brother of Hovind's who holds an Old Earth Creationist Position and Hovind apparantly lacks the ability to debate someone without getting personal.

You're certainly free to disagree.

You asked for opinions of him and those are mine.

I disagree with his Young Earth Position, but I believe he is a Christian Brother.

What do you find especially convincing or important from his material?

[godslanguage]

Well, its nothing that I have'nt heard or read already, but some of the points he makes, one I mentioned above that the human population was a quarter of a million thousands of years ago bc (christs time), I mean, this is not science, this is just common sense, this many people lived, so therefore if evolution claims that humans arose 5 million years (upon earliest evolution research) ago or so, than would'nt the popultion be much higher. Your opinions?
So if God created the earth 6000 years ago, this would make sense, no?

[godslanguage]

"He is a Christian Brother of Hovind's who holds an Old Earth Creationist Position and Hovind apparantly lacks the ability to debate someone without getting personal."

Maybe because he does'nt need to repeat himself, he knows that the earth is young and the bible speaks the truth.

[godslanguage]

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.a ... =910322540


audio where he battles evolutionists

[sandy_mcd]

I lost most of what respect I had for him when he appeared on the John Ankerburg Show to debate Hugh Ross and basically called Ross a Heretic despite promising earlier he would be civil.

Published - April, 7, 2006
Park could face extinction
Lack of building permits closes dinosaur museum


William Rabb
@PensacolaNewsJournal.com
It may have been built with heavenly intentions, but a judge has ruled that the creationism theme park known as Dinosaur Adventure Land still must obey earthly laws.

Escambia County authorities this week locked up a museum building at the theme park on North Palafox Street in Pensacola after Circuit Judge Michael Allen ruled the owners were in contempt of court.

Owners of the park, which shows how dinosaurs may have roamed the Earth just a few thousand years ago, did not obtain a building permit before constructing the building in 2002. They have argued in and out of court that it violates their "deeply held" religious beliefs, and that the church-run facility does not have to obtain permits.

After almost four years of litigation, the judge disagreed and said the county has the authority to close the building until the owners comply with regulations.

The judge also fined two church leaders $500 each per day for every day the building is used or occupied. If church officials continue to refuse to comply with local ordinances, the judge may decide that the building can be razed, Allen's ruling said.

County commissioners showed no sympathy to members of the Creation Science Evangelism ministry who spoke out Thursday night at a commission meeting about the county's actions.

"Scripture also says 'Render unto Caesar what Caesar demands.' And right now, Caesar demands a building permit," County Commission Chairman Mike Whitehead said.

A building permit and inspection by county authorities is vital to ensuring the theme park is safe for the thousands of people who reportedly visit the park and museum every year, Whitehead said.

Church leader Kent Hovind vowed to appeal the case.

"We will continue our legal fight," Hovind said Thursday.

"This is pure religious persecution," said Glen Stoll, who works closely with Hovind on legal issues.

Legal questions are nothing new for Dinosaur Adventure Land and the leaders of the church group that operates it:

· In 2004, The Internal Revenue Service raided Hovind's home and businesses. Agents said Hovind had failed to pay taxes. That case is pending, and federal attorneys declined to comment about it.

· While the building permit case was in court, the ownership of the theme park was transferred to Stoll, who resides in Washington State, according to court papers. Stoll has been investigated at least twice by federal authorities, court records show.

Last year, the U.S. attorney in Seattle filed a lawsuit against Stoll, charging him with promoting a scheme encouraging people to avoid paying taxes by claiming to be religious entities, according to news reports.

A federal judge ruled against Stoll, ordering him to stop the practices. Stoll said Thursday that he doesn't recognize the ruling because he was never properly served with court papers.

I recall reading about the tax case years ago and some of the tricks he is alleged to have used to hide income.

[Canuckster1127]

I lost most of what respect I had for him when he appeared on the John Ankerburg Show to debate Hugh Ross and basically called Ross a Heretic despite promising earlier he would be civil.

Published - April, 7, 2006
Park could face extinction
Lack of building permits closes dinosaur museum


William Rabb
@PensacolaNewsJournal.com
It may have been built with heavenly intentions, but a judge has ruled that the creationism theme park known as Dinosaur Adventure Land still must obey earthly laws.

Escambia County authorities this week locked up a museum building at the theme park on North Palafox Street in Pensacola after Circuit Judge Michael Allen ruled the owners were in contempt of court.

Owners of the park, which shows how dinosaurs may have roamed the Earth just a few thousand years ago, did not obtain a building permit before constructing the building in 2002. They have argued in and out of court that it violates their "deeply held" religious beliefs, and that the church-run facility does not have to obtain permits.

After almost four years of litigation, the judge disagreed and said the county has the authority to close the building until the owners comply with regulations.

The judge also fined two church leaders $500 each per day for every day the building is used or occupied. If church officials continue to refuse to comply with local ordinances, the judge may decide that the building can be razed, Allen's ruling said.

County commissioners showed no sympathy to members of the Creation Science Evangelism ministry who spoke out Thursday night at a commission meeting about the county's actions.

"Scripture also says 'Render unto Caesar what Caesar demands.' And right now, Caesar demands a building permit," County Commission Chairman Mike Whitehead said.

A building permit and inspection by county authorities is vital to ensuring the theme park is safe for the thousands of people who reportedly visit the park and museum every year, Whitehead said.

Church leader Kent Hovind vowed to appeal the case.

"We will continue our legal fight," Hovind said Thursday.

"This is pure religious persecution," said Glen Stoll, who works closely with Hovind on legal issues.

Legal questions are nothing new for Dinosaur Adventure Land and the leaders of the church group that operates it:

· In 2004, The Internal Revenue Service raided Hovind's home and businesses. Agents said Hovind had failed to pay taxes. That case is pending, and federal attorneys declined to comment about it.

· While the building permit case was in court, the ownership of the theme park was transferred to Stoll, who resides in Washington State, according to court papers. Stoll has been investigated at least twice by federal authorities, court records show.

Last year, the U.S. attorney in Seattle filed a lawsuit against Stoll, charging him with promoting a scheme encouraging people to avoid paying taxes by claiming to be religious entities, according to news reports.

A federal judge ruled against Stoll, ordering him to stop the practices. Stoll said Thursday that he doesn't recognize the ruling because he was never properly served with court papers.

I recall reading about the tax case years ago and some of the tricks he is alleged to have used to hide income.

I was aware of this. It's still in the air for now, so I'm giving him th ebenefit of the doubt until the legal situation resolves.

[Canuckster1127]

Well, its nothing that I have'nt heard or read already, but some of the points he makes, one I mentioned above that the human population was a quarter of a million thousands of years ago bc (christs time), I mean, this is not science, this is just common sense, this many people lived, so therefore if evolution claims that humans arose 5 million years (upon earliest evolution research) ago or so, than would'nt the popultion be much higher. Your opinions?
So if God created the earth 6000 years ago, this would make sense, no?

Here's a response from the main board.

http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth ... s.html#pop

Growth of Human Population [DB 1506 (9); OAB 37] It is claimed that the case for a young Earth is strengthened by the calculation that the current world population could be produced from only two people in 4,000 years, using the appropriate exponential arithmetic (Henry Morris, Scientific Creationism, 1987 edition, pp.167-169). The fallacy in this claim, of course, is that the human population has not been growing at a steady rate. This is a classic One-Sided Equation, failing to consider factors that limit the population. Human population is limited mainly by its ability to feed itself, and until the past few hundred years, that limitation (combined with humanity's lower ability in the past to cope with natural catastrophes) has kept the population steady and fairly low. Only recently have we had the technology to remove these environmental limitations, resulting in a population explosion. Therefore, it is not valid to extrapolate the current rate of growth, which is much less affected by its past limitations, back in time.

Human population really exploded exponentially in the last 100 years and is primarily a result of increased technology providing a greater food supply and the overall lengthening of human lives due to improved sanitation, medicine etc.

You ought to take a look around as there are a huge number of refutations to common YEC type arguments in this page that are really well done and need to be considered.

We can discuss it Biblically as well because I believe the Bible better supports an Old Earth Position.

[Canuckster1127]

"He is a Christian Brother of Hovind's who holds an Old Earth Creationist Position and Hovind apparantly lacks the ability to debate someone without getting personal."

Maybe because he does'nt need to repeat himself, he knows that the earth is young and the bible speaks the truth.

Civility has nothing to do with repeating oneself. He made a commitment going into a debate and he broke it. Integrity is an issue that applies equally to all Christians, Old Earth or Young Earth. His actions in this regard don't prove anything in terms of the actual debate. It simply demonstrates, in my opinion, that at this place and time he allowed his passion for his topic to overrule his mind and the commitment he made. I says nothing about the debate. It speaks to Mr Hovind's self-control and integrity. If he were to take responsibility for his actions and apologize for them without compromising his beliefs, which he can do, the issue would be gone. As he has not, to my knowledge, I believe it is a valid issue.

With regard to the earth being young, that is not at all a settled issue. Nor is it settled what the Bible teaches in that regard. That is why the issue is in debate and good Christians on both sides hold differing views, which is fine. It is not a cardinal truth related to salvation.

I would suggest that if you wish to debate a Young Earth Position here, that you focus on the Scriptures. You'll find little support in science.

I happen to believe that the Scriptures make more sense and are more consistent in an Old Earth context.

It's not a question of whether the Bible is right. It is.

The question is the YEC or OEC position more consistent with the Scripture. I believe the OEC position is. It would not destroy my faith in the slightest to be proven wrong. The Scriptures would still be true.

[BGoodForGoodSake]

Well, its nothing that I have'nt heard or read already, but some of the points he makes, one I mentioned above that the human population was a quarter of a million thousands of years ago bc (christs time), I mean, this is not science, this is just common sense, this many people lived, so therefore if evolution claims that humans arose 5 million years (upon earliest evolution research) ago or so, than would'nt the popultion be much higher. Your opinions?
So if God created the earth 6000 years ago, this would make sense, no?

Here's a response from the main board.

http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth ... s.html#pop

In addition to this there is a fairly lengthy thread on this very subject here.
If you ever hear something which can be effected by many variables
expressed as a simple mathmatical equation your skepticism alert should go off.

Population growth is a result of many different factors. If this were not the case population growth would be the same in all nations at all times.

[godslanguage]

Thanks for the replies everyone

I would just like to know, if Hovind implies, and I sort of agree with him on this, that if you don't believe in a young earth, then your faith in the bible is destroyed.

Now, as a good YEC spokesman, do you believe that the science he is teaching along with YEC is misleading. For example, if he says Niagra Falls or the largest desert was created in around 4000 years, than is his dating accurate or not? Can science argue otherwise. Can science point us in the wrong direction as well?

Thanks for any further replies!

[Canuckster1127]

Thanks for the replies everyone

I would just like to know, if Hovind implies, and I sort of agree with him on this, that if you don't believe in a young earth, then your faith in the bible is destroyed.

Now, as a good YEC spokesman, do you believe that the science he is teaching along with YEC is misleading. For example, if he says Niagra Falls or the largest desert was created in around 4000 years, than is his dating accurate or not? Can science argue otherwise. Can science point us in the wrong direction as well?

Thanks for any further replies!

With all due respect, my faith in the Bible has nothing to do with a YEC position. I believe the YEC position to be inconsistent with the Scriptures.

I believe the science he and YEC proponents present is not only misleading, I think (and this is the nicest word I can use) that is just plain silly.

If YEC is true, why is there no non-Christian who interprets the scientific record to indicate a young earth?

Can Science be wrong? Sure it can. It has been on the past and no doubt it will be in the future.

YEC is not the Bible. It is a theological interpretation. Can theology be wrong? Sure it can. It has been in the past and no dount it will be in the future.

The idea that if YEC is not true then the Bible is not true is just plain wrong. Many YEC proponents frame things that way and frankly, many non-Christians hear them and accept what they say about the Bible as true and they decide that they can't be a Christian unless they commit intellectual suicide and accept the ridiculous teaching that comes out of YEC popular ministries.

Science is pretty much unanimous in its evaluation of the age of the Earth and the measurement techniques and collaboration betwen multiple tchniques has never been better.

More than that, the YEC position as it is popularly espoused today has really only been around for the last 100 years. A majority of the Church throughout history has accepted an Old Earth type of position as espoused and taught by Augustine.

Neither Young-Earth nor Old Earth Christians prior to the early 20th century even framed the question the way we do today, because the knowledge of that day did not allow for it.

You've been asked several questions to defend your positions. Are you interested in dealing with this position in any detail?