Evidence for God from Science

Hi, once again, I came up with a question I can't really find the answer too.

If Intelligent Design is based on the assumption of an intelligent designer. And, foremost, lets say that this intelligent designer is an alien species or ET lifeform (completely without supernatural explanation, God or what not.)
And this DNA, this complex language has its purpose and must have an intelligent designer at its cause, what created the intelligent designer. If the intelligent designer is even more complex than human comprehension of complexity. What is the first, foremost designer of the design, and who created that designer, and that designer and that designer etc...you get my drift. We are talking about the natural realm only, not the metaphysical or supernatural one. How could these complexities of genetic language arise from nothing...is it because of particles, big bang, I don't know, this is why I'm asking.

I know there is no true factual answer to this question, primarily a philosophical one at foremost, but let me hear your interpretation on it.
I believe in the supernatural one, ofcourse, even the title of this entire website: "The heavens declare the glory of God" explains the unlimited complexity of Gods wisdom.

godslanguage wrote:How could these complexities of genetic language arise from nothing...is it because of particles, big bang, I don't know, this is why I'm asking.

Complexity cannot come from nothing. It can arise from simple rules.

The natural world is a result of very simple particles interacting according to several rules.

How familiar are you with chemistry?

I am not familiar with chemistry at all. Are you saying the entire universe was created through a "simple" natural process. What happened before the big bang, did particles form from completely nothing? Are particles something or are they nothing?

godslanguage wrote:I am not familiar with chemistry at all. Are you saying the entire universe was created through a "simple" natural process. What happened before the big bang, did particles form from completely nothing? Are particles something or are they nothing?

No what I am saying is that a study of chemistry will help you get a better grasp of what complexeties you are actually talking about.

In other words dealing with how the various chemicals owe their various properties due to the configuration of elementary particles will go a very long way in giving you a better intellectual foundation.

You can always ask the bigger questions, but it would help to understand more fully the answers to some of the smaller questions.

Then you may not be at such a complete loss as to how some may see it as plausible that the genetic code is result of the inherent properties of the chemicals involved. In contrast you seem to be seeing it as some sort of arbitrary language, or even worse an abstract complexity.

So in short, yes begin with basic chemistry and build up your foundation of analytical, and critical thinking skills.

As for the big questions, we can only imagine the answers...

"So in short, yes begin with basic chemistry and build up your foundation of analytical, and critical thinking skills."

Firstly, I do not study chemistry, I study electronics and physics that apply to electronics. Chemistry is a totally differant field, and one I obviously don't know much about or at all, especially in comparison to your knowledge in the field. I am guessing I would need to go to University or College at the minimum to get a good understanding and foundation of chemistry. Simply looking through articles on the net would'nt do much, would it, unless I'm completely devoted to it.

I am just asking questions here I am curious about. I don't mean to imply things that perhaps are'nt true, but when I don't know much about it, then I ask. I have a general idea about certain things, ofcourse, all I'm asking for is a general, basic answer. I am not, however going to go to chemistry school to get an answer to one of my questions.

Thank you for the response though!

godslanguage wrote:"So in short, yes begin with basic chemistry and build up your foundation of analytical, and critical thinking skills."

Firstly, I do not study chemistry, I study electronics and physics that apply to electronics. Chemistry is a totally differant field, and one I obviously don't know much about or at all, especially in comparison to your knowledge in the field. I am guessing I would need to go to University or College at the minimum to get a good understanding and foundation of chemistry. Simply looking through articles on the net would'nt do much, would it, unless I'm completely devoted to it.

This was in response to your statement
"And this DNA, this complex language has its purpose and must have an intelligent designer at its cause"

All you need is basic chemistry, why each element has the property it does. Try this link here at howstuffworks.com. You can read up to page 6 then it goes into quantum physics.
Then read this link

godslanguage wrote:I am just asking questions here I am curious about. I don't mean to imply things that perhaps are'nt true, but when I don't know much about it, then I ask. I have a general idea about certain things, ofcourse, all I'm asking for is a general, basic answer. I am not, however going to go to chemistry school to get an answer to one of my questions.

Thank you for the response though!

A little insight doesn't hurt anyone.

I suppose a good study related to your fields of interest in self-emergent properties would be that of the internet. The organization of the internet is a result of the properties inherent in the various participating components. The system adapted as limitations and conflicts arose. This example however is much more complex than the emergent properties of atoms as the various components are complex in themselves and exhibit variable and evolving behaviours.

Thanks for the link. Most of the physics involved I know from electronics. Atoms, elements, particles etc...are a must to understand how current, voltage, resistance, frequency for app series/parallell capacitors (electro magnetic fields) inductors(electric fields), conductors, transistors, semi-conductors, diodes, cathodes/anodes, transformers etc... work in order to develop an understanding and of use for practical application using precise calculations in circuits. My understanding is differant from yours, it is the same, but application/experimentation in your areas of chemistry are alien to me.

godslanguage wrote:Thanks for the link. Most of the physics involved I know from electronics. Atoms, elements, particles etc...are a must to understand how current, voltage, resistance, frequency for app series/parallell capacitors (electro magnetic fields) inductors(electric fields), conductors, transistors, semi-conductors, diodes, cathodes/anodes, transformers etc... work in order to develop an understanding and of use for practical application using precise calculations in circuits. My understanding is differant from yours, it is the same, but application/experimentation in your areas of chemistry are alien to me.

Good you have a basic understanding and can also drawing from your expertise in electronics you can see that certain properties are inherent in various elements even though they all share the same building blocks.

Just as in your circuits we cannot arbitrarily assign something as a diode and another as a regular conductor. The properties are inherent in the material(s) themselves.

DNA works this way. The properties of the interacting molecules forces particular sequences to encode for specific amino acids. It is not arbitrary.

In order for one to build an electronic device one only needs to consider the components and their specific uses. But one must first understand the various properties of the materials available before even building a simple component like a capacitor.

When doing a simple calculation lets say for the resistence of wires in a parallel circuit we can use a formula taught us in the first year of electrical engineering. However the mathmatics itself is a model of reality, a way to communicate the consistency and predictability of physical properties. This physics is in turn a result of observations of real world tests.

But imagine if the components were able to self organize. For example like magnets in a basket, but of course the interactions in bio-chemistry are much more complex. Does anyone need to tell the magnets that one pole must attract the opposite?

For instance lets say we have a device which produces circuit boards by randomly taking an existing circuit board and modifying it in some manor, perhaps removing a resistor or adding a transistor on some sort of breadboard. Some modifications would not work perhaps a resistor was removed and cause a semiconductor to overheat, or a capicitor was removed and lets say it was a radio circuit board, and it no longer can tune properly. But you could imagine how it could accidently create capacitors by placing two different conductors near each other. If you think about it that is exactly how all these components were discovered. By sheer tinkering we were able to find all these properties and take advantage of them.

You may have done this as a child but you don't need proper schooling to take the various components and put them together in random ways to discover what each of them does.

So going back to the original topic why can I take a conductor and put anode on one end and force the current to go only in a single direction(diode). It is an inherent property of the materials involved, taken together with human technology it is an emergent property. The question goes back to why do atoms behave the way they do.

The DNA in all its complexities owes it's behaviour to the atomic interactions of the elements which it is made of. Just as a coprocessor owes the functioning of its transistors to the same.

It's amazing how a few simple atomic configurations can lead to 118 different elements which in turn can interact in infinite ways. All the resulting compounds and chemicals owing their properties to these interactions which in turn is the result of a few basic physical principles of electron behaviour.

The blueprint for a plasma television is written in the valence electrons of a silicon atom and electromagnetic behaviour.

P.S.
Sorry.

I just realized now reading back that I may have insulted your intelligence. I want to apologize for that. Obviously you're a well educated individual.

All of electronics are based on ohms law and the law of series and parallel circuits. I consider this, a natural form in a complex design. A capacitor is ofcourse a lighting bolt, like static electricity storing significant voltage or energy. Basically, like you said, tinkering with certain things in nature such as atoms, there are amazing applications.

Yaa, and thanks for the replies

godslanguage wrote:Yaa, and thanks for the replies

No problem.
=)

Sorry I couldn't answer your main question.
All I can tell you is I don't know.

"I just realized now reading back that I may have insulted your intelligence. I want to apologize for that. Obviously you're a well educated individual."

LOL, I have just realized you posted this. You have not insulted my intelligence in anyway, and if you did, thats okay too because I lack tons of knowledge in the scientific field. Electronics is part science consisting of mostly mathematically formulas, nothing too complex in the scientific perspective, at most basic level, a basic understanding of physics is necessary to understand what is going on when electrons flow through a conductor, semi-conductor etc... this ofcourse is just the basis of it all. The rest of it is mostly logic, expressed in numbers and calculated mathematically.

So let me understand this thread ?

God is a Chemist ?

God builds electronic devices?

God consulted the Howstuffworks website before the Creation of Genesis?

Michael

Who created the creators?

Okay your posted question shows that Aliens were not the creators .
Why? Because who would have created these creators or Aliens.
You would be just transferring the question.

Now God was not created and always existed. Now are you looking to understand how God could have always existed?

Michael Thomas
Bluesman

bluesman wrote:Who created the creators?

Okay your posted question shows that Aliens were not the creators .
Why? Because who would have created these creators or Aliens.
You would be just transferring the question.

Now God was not created and always existed. Now are you looking to understand how God could have always existed?

Michael Thomas
Bluesman

I think thats exactly my point, isn't it.