Evidence for God from Science

I've often wondered when the church was going to organize and take a political stance against such outward and public destruction of God and the Bible.

Look at the favoritism laws in this country and how they are first proceeded with the destruction of a biblical truth.

Scott Peterson was convicted of murder for his wife and un-born son.
A woman can kill the un-born crime free.

Racism; Often claimed by racists! Show me a minority that doesn't work for his own races cause and when opposed by anyone that person is a racist.

I could go on and on with examples. But if I may be so bold, isn't it better to follow the laws and wishes of God rather than men, yet churches fear speaking out against what is clearly a moral wrong.

Keep this in mind. "The philosophy in the classroom in one generation will be the philosophy in government in the next" Abraham Lincoln.

Jared.

You are right, everything has become too politically correct. There are groups that are taking up position against the attacks on Christianity, but it needs all of us to help.

I agree;
I think forums like this are a step in the right direction providing they don't solicit an anti-anything attitude, considering in this country if you complain your labeled. Stereotype anyone who stereotypes them-self and see what happens.

I could see the power of this forums potential with the implementing of polls. People tend to be followers and not leaders, so, people subconsciously side with what they perceive to be the winning or popular attitude. Political correctness is a term we could live without.

I studied Behavioral Science in college favoring phenomenological and paranormal psychology, not to counsel but to polish my degree in advertising and manipulate minds. I've since become a christian and now develop software. But I've always believed that people behave in predictable ways. Including following to a common destructive end mindlessly. Psychology can be truly beneficial in communicating and defending christianity I'm supprised that churches are so ritual based and follow the same old pattern.

Listen; If I give someone a recipe for meat loaf and they expect cake and frost it, they still end up with meat loaf. Following the same patterns while expecting different results is foolish. Yet I see nothing short of that in todays church. Maybe we should come up with new recipes for people to follow.

How do you boil a frog to death?
Slowly, starting out with nice warm cozey water.

Jared.

I've often wondered when the church was going to organize and take a political stance against such outward and public destruction of God and the Bible.

Sorry about this, any chance you could clarify for me? I'm not a Christian but, as I understand it, it's impossible for humans to destroy God, right? I'm not an American so any instances of Bible-burning would have passed me by too - the majority of Brits are pretty laid back about religion. By "destruction of God and the Bible", do you mean "lack of acceptance of the truth of God and the Bible"?

But if I may be so bold, isn't it better to follow the laws and wishes of God rather than men, yet churches fear speaking out against what is clearly a moral wrong.

Interesting point. My personal belief is that the best thing to do is what feels right, regardless of whether that feeling stems from previous negative-reinforcement experiences or from God the Father. The laws of the land will only ever be an approximation to morality anyway - just ask a lawyer

I guess the other issue is that, whilst there may be one God and one Bible (ignoring translations and so on) there are many many different interpretations of what that Bible considers moral in almost any circumstance. It would not be a good way of witnessing for a church to firmly declare that such-and-such a thing was counter to God's Word and then later discover that they'd got it wrong.

For example, I can't help but think the RCC's attempts to kill off the belief that the world was round (on the basis of their apparently flawed interpretation of scripture) did not inconsiderable damage to their scientific credibility. On a more moral note, the elimination of the Cathars probably didn't do much for their PR either. And, whilst PR isn't everything, it certainly isn't nothing - I draw your attentions to 1 Corinthians 6:6 for the only example I could remember off the top of my head

lifewish;

My personal belief is that the best thing to do is what feels right, regardless of whether that feeling stems from previous negative-reinforcement experiences or from God the Father. The laws of the land will only ever be an approximation to morality anyway - just ask a lawyer

Interesting;
"Approximation to morality" I agree.
"Laws of the land"
In the United States the constitution at one point WAS our common goal as a people, a set of common values that we agreed we could all share. The constitution was based on "Identified Biblical Principles" since nearly each author of the constitution was a christian. It was based on what was believed to prevent moral wrongs and guide in decisions when all else fails. "Not To Lawyers" The constitution is under attack here in the US by lawyers. At one point if you came to the US you either accepted the constitution or you didn't. You don't try to change it to meet your specific and very individualistic needs. One of many reasons the US is so hated. We've no clear Idea of what we stand for from one moment to the next.

By "destruction of God and the Bible", do you mean "lack of acceptance of the truth of God and the Bible"?

No. People can believe and accept anything they want. A true weakness of our species. I meant that if you publicly oppose any other faith you will meet absolute retaliation and possible public out-cry. In the US we can teach the Koran in schools and about the Muslim faith or Buddhism, which is good. However, IF the Bible is taught from, a teacher must NEVER, NEVER mention Jesus as the savior. Prayer in school is being outlawed everywhere, and saying the morning "Pledge of Allegeance" is gone. In the US its all about me the individual and not we the people. The 10 commandments are being removed from every public property because it OFFENDS people. Remember this country was founded on such moral foundations. Destroy the foundation, destroy the country. To destroy the United States, divide one against the other. But First, Remove GOD.

I've often wondered when the church was going to organize and take a political stance against such outward and public destruction of God and the Bible.
YOU SAID:
Sorry about this, any chance you could clarify for me?

MY ANSWER:
So by example I answer your question.

A member of my church has a son in high-school. He listens to RAP music, he dresses a little gangsterish, and he uses a lingo that depicts a thug type character. He's also WHITE, lilly white, and a christian (of sorts). Yet while having a verbal altercation with another student about Muslims and Race, he spoke up and said "crying racism is racist" because he got tired of hearing this kid and his friends taking every and any opposition against them as racist or prejudice against their faith. The matter quickly went to blows resulting in the "POLICE" and school expelling the students and labling this kid as a racist and religeous radical. I'm GUESSING that if the tables were turned, the results would be far different.

A growing characteristic cliche in the US is to tear down and label anything about the christian God as extreem and prejudice.

In the US, we favor the cowards, the minority, the liars, the cry babies. In the US we fear nothing, except being labled insensitve to other religeons and races, except "Christian" ones. We dont want to OFFEND so we take a passive stance (except where we want control) you being a BRIT may remember NATZI Germany. (Our current military and law enforcement attitude.)

In the US we can depict in ART Jesus having Gay Sex, its ok because its art. I dare anyone to do the same thing with Mohammad or Buddhism.

Its just getting old!

Jared;

Jared, this came out today after the ACLU and a group of parents sued the school district for breaking the seperation of church and state. So now saying that evolution is not 100% certain is viewed as establishing a state religion. Bears out your point real well.

'ATLANTA - A federal judge has ordered the removal of stickers placed in high school biology textbooks that call evolution "a theory, not a fact."

The judge ruled Thursday that the disclaimers put in the books by Cobb County school officials in 2002 were unconstitutional.

Six parents of students and the American Civil Liberties Union had challenged the stickers in court, arguing they violated the constitutional separation of church and state.

"Adopted by the school board, funded by the money of taxpayers, and inserted by school personnel, the sticker conveys an impermissible message of endorsement and tells some citizens that they are political outsiders while telling others they are political insiders," U.S. District Judge Clarence Cooper said in his 44-page ruling.

The case was heard over four days in federal court last November, where the school system defended the warning stickers as a show of tolerance, not religious activism as some parents claimed.

"The Cobb County school board is doing more than accommodating religion," Michael Manely, an attorney for the parents, argued during the trial. "They are promoting religious dogma to all students."

Lawyers for Cobb County disagreed, saying the school board had made a good-faith effort to address questions that inevitably arise during the teaching of evolution.

"Science and religion are related and they're not mutually exclusive," Linwood Gunn said. "This sticker was an effort to get past that conflict and to teach good science."

The schools placed the stickers after more than 2,000 parents complained the textbooks presented evolution as fact, without mentioning rival ideas about the beginnings of life.

The stickers read, "This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully and critically considered."

August;
thanks for that reply.

In other posts I made I have had an overtone of bitterness because of some circumstances I've been made aware of that have made me a little bitter. I've outright called God a coward. I see so much anti-christian behavior I'm just wondering why? Isn't God, still God?

I come from the Bob Stone, David Ogilvy, and Jay Abraham school of thought when it comes to influence and change. These mentors of mine are advertising greats. Fitting since my background was originally advertising and psychology.

Check this out
Years ago before I became a christian I create an anti-abortion ad that was so troubling it was prohibited from the network because they labeled it shocking and deceptive. Yet I see planned parenting advertising advocating abortion without restriction.

My ad started with a clean white featureless room and a child bound to a chair. In the background a surgeon was thumbing through surgical tools as the child cried. voice of child "what did I do, I won't eat much, I'll be good, etc...." as the surgeon approached the child with an expressionless face, armed with a scalpel, the camera angle widened steadily until the focus was clearly on the stomach of a young mother just walking into an abortion clinic. The transcript and storyboard were much clearer, but you get the idea.

Christians need to advertise with a different approach
I would come back to advertising If any christian worth his weight would place any ad for awareness and change. I'd even design print ads for small rag-sheets and little-nickels and so on. I would do it FREE of charge.

I would want the ads to achieve one thing, get people to visit this and other forums like it. Then Id ask the forum owners to research and then post action steps. The attitude about the christian faith is so appalling that it could grow to become a giant monster. Doesn't the bible say that people will be be-headed for holding fast their faith.

Jared.
Hoping for action, prayer wont work, never has, never will.

Jared wrote:In other posts I made I have had an overtone of bitterness because of some circumstances I've been made aware of that have made me a little bitter. I've outright called God a coward. I see so much anti-christian behavior I'm just wondering why? Isn't God, still God?
...
Hoping for action, prayer wont work, never has, never will.

I agree with your posts about the foundation of the country and Christians coming under attack.

But these two statements have me puzzled. Could you clarify them for me? Calling God a coward sits uneasily with me - how many times are we told to fear the Lord? And in reference to prayer:

Matthew 21:21-22
Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.”

Matthew 17:20
"... I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”[a]

This is Jesus who is saying this. Please explain to me what you meant by those statements - because given that Jesus is God, He is also Truth.

Felgar

But these two statements have me puzzled. Could you clarify them for me? Calling God a coward sits uneasily with me - how many times are we told to fear the Lord? And in reference to prayer:

I agree Felgar, Some bitterness is still in my heart. I use to fear God, use to be a much stronger christian. I found through 9 1/2 years of being a christian that I was completely blinded by a national, global plague that affects all churches and that plague is believing that Gods plan is somehow flawless.

I've had more success in the past year of my life using the power of belief and self-image and goal setting than I ever did with faith in God. I give God the respect for being God. I don't respect His decisions.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If I were to allow my daughters to fall prey to harm knowing in advance I could prevent it or advert it, and I don't, I'm a lousy cowardly parent.

If my daughters came to me with a just, un-selfish and honest request and it was within my ability to grant that request, I would.

Prayer;
People tend to gravitate toward what works. Thats one of those psychological truisms. So if prayer after prayer fails, is it any wonder why Jesus asked if He would find faith when He returns. People don't go to God for healing, the church will just tell them in Gods timing, they go to the doctor. They don't go to God for money, the church mis-quotes the bible and says "money is the root of all evil", they gamble, get a loan, commit a crime, work harder. The list goes on and on. Prayer does wonders for your soul and almost nothing in your life on earth: Gods timing, God is eternal, I have the blink of an eye here on earth. I'm not dealing with Gods time in my life. With my soul, sure, everything else is UP TO ME.

Jared.

Jared wrote:that plague is believing that Gods plan is somehow flawless.
...
I don't respect His decisions.
...
Prayer does wonders for your soul and almost nothing in your life on earth

Jared, I fear for you.

There are so many passages that come to mind I don't even know where to start. My first thought was to attack your position with ferver, and to even question whether you are a Christian. But having thought about it further I feel it would be best to offer encouragement if I can.

Matthew 7:33
But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

jared,

super cool anti-abortion ad. try it again.

Jared,

As much as the situation in the world looks bad for the christian, it is to be that way. Book of revelations reveals to us that before Christ comes, the world will be as it was before the flood with rampant sin and Christians are too be persecuted. Armenians suffered a genocide for essentially being Christian and ever since, Armenia has weakened in faith from the once vibrant Christian Nation it was. However a revitalization of the country's faith is occurring and let this be an example! When the world seems hopeless and strikes you down as a Christian , pick yourself back up and prepare for the coming of the Lord.

All this separate but equal stuff really sometimes gets on my nerves too, but i trust in God and his plan which from what i can see is happening before our eyes.

I've asked myself in the past of the significance of prayer, if God already knows what I'm going to pray for. Then I learnt - Prayer is God's way of getting God's will done on earth. So, God has His agenda and He knows what it is. He also knows what we're going to ask Him. If its in accordance with His agenda, it will be fulfilled. One evangelist has also dared to say that 'God does nothing without prayer'. (Think it was D Moody). I believe that God also reveals His agenda to people through the Holy Spirit, then its up to us to pray it out to fulfil it.

Jared, I strongly recommend Dutch Sheets' book: Intercessory Prayer. It is excellent in explaining what prayer is, and how to make it more powerful. You can find it at Amazon, or at http://www.Dutchsheets.org.

All the things you mentioned about goal-setting and self belief is great, God helps those who help themselves. Prayer without action does not accomplish much.

Keep the faith.

Hello;

Jared: super cool anti-abortion ad. try it again.

Try my latest. NEEDS REFINING but you get the picture.

Scene opens as two separate luxury cars pull up in a dark alley. The alley is cold, with steaming street drains, dim lights, garbage piled up and the faint sounds of big city in the background. (maybe Chicago or New York)
They meet;
Paul: "Lets go with the routine on this one, strictly textbook if you know what I mean"
Unknown: "Sure, but it will take time and MONEY! after all its murder"
Paul: "We don't have time! (in frustration) billions of dollars could be lost, that hurts us, it hurts America" pauses while pacing two steps in both directions "What do you have planned?"
Unknown: "The usual, propaganda, mass brain washing, your remember Orson Welles - War of The World don't you?"
Paul: "Certainly! But that caused wide spread panic...."
Unknown: Interrupting by holding his hand as if to say calm down. "It was a test Paul; a well orchestrated test that proved people believe and act on what they hear in the news, you know this, its been used in politics from the beginning"
Paul: "But were talking about changing the attitude toward the mass murder of infants and further....!" Interupted!

Mildly startled, both men hear clatter of a tin can haven been tripped over and rustling sounds.
Paul: Now off screen as focus is towards a dempster "I thought you said we'd be alone"
Out of the shadows a young woman appears, with camera in hand and starts running.
Unknown: Calm, calculating and in control he commands "Get her!, NOW!"
Two bodyguards previously standing in the shadows next to the cars give chase.
Paul: a bit suprised in his voice "Who was that!"
Unknown: he chuckles "Anti-Abortion Activist, they just don't get it"

Commercial Ends.

============================================

About the rest of your responses; I met with some progress in Understanding Last Evening just after midnight.

Heres what Ive been able to conclude after some careful thought and talking with another christian I respect:

I had showed my friend your forum and your posts above and he asked what my problem was. I said, that I cant argue with what I know to be true in my heart. I believe God has no power except the power we give Him the same way we give value to paper and call it money.
I was shocked when my friend said he agreed.

My friend said.
"Faith "IS" belief in something to which you have no evidence other than faith itself, faith is evidence as valid as a deed, a car title, or any other thing that declares you possess it."

As my friend went on he said "God truly has no power except the power you give Him...." paused and then said "In Your Life" "Gods not a rapist that He would force His will upon you, He's your best pal a friend and a POTENTIAL Father if you let Him be." He went on to point out and confirm what I've known for years in psychology about faith and beliefs. (Details are lengthy so I'll spare you.)

Again he said "When the bible declares something, you will notice a pattern through out it that its stated in terms of completion" "By His stripes you WERE healed" past tense, already done. "So faith in prayer" he stated "is coming to believe and accept what has already been done" "as a gift or inheritance, you rob yourself by not accepting whats already been done."

Interesting; How could I have missed that.


Jared.