Evidence for God from Science

I call myself a Christian, I read the Bible, I pray, I have asked Jesus to Come into my heart.

Yet I have these doubts. I still fear death. What if there is no after-life?

I guess it start about 2 years ago when I spent 5 days in hospital with Pneumonia (was a smoker at that time). I guess it had to do with some side-effects of all the drugs I was on, but I was so very afraid I was going to die. Having Pneumonia breath felt difficult and I just felt like if I sleep I won't wake-up. I don't think I slept much those 5 days.

Now when I get to feeling bad, being sick I get afraid.
I mean I have so much I want and need to keep living for. Mainly I wouldn't want to leave my family especially my two little boys.

Like right now I am sick , I think its something minor , like a virus. However, the Doctor wasn't sure what it is and a test came back negative. I think , feel , hope , pray, its getting better on its own.
It just the doubts and the fears that play trick with your mind.

Like Cancer just scares me so much sometimes. A friend of my wife who was a Christian, about my age, just lost his fight with cancer.
Why?

How do I get rid of my doubts? How do I trust in God? How do I hear him and feel he is with me? I want to feel the Holy Spirit (again?) . I wish Jesus would come again now. I want to know in my heart 100% that death is not the end.

I feel sometimes like I have been a pretender , wannabe Christian ,
a fraud, a fake. My heart is troubled. I need Jesus right now.

Michael
Thomas

I like my name Michael "close to God" but the doubting Thomas has its grips on me now.

God Bless you all!

Michael,

Thanks for being so honest.

I understand this very much. I had cancer when I was 23 and underwent surgery and radiation treatment at that time. I've had to undergo radiation treatment again at the age of 30. Since that time I've struggled with clinical depression on occasion. My Dad died of cancer on Christmas morning of 2004. I've also in some of my service as a pastor been a chaplain for the American Cancer Society and ministered to many individuals and families of people who were terminal and seemingly without hope.

Fear is real. Death is an enemy and the experience and what lays on the other side is an unknown to a certain degree even for Christians. I'm not minimizing what faith and hope we have as Christians by saying this. I'm simply being honest. We do not have to fear death as people without hope. We know certain things and know Jesus who went before us and conquered death. All that is true and takes the sting from death. But, there is still some elements of uncertainty as to what it will be like, when and how it will happen and there is a very human instinct of self-preservation that I believe is instinctual within us. Christians want to go to heaven; we just don't necessarily want to go right now!

Here's what I've learned and what I would suggest.

1. Spend some time in the Word and do a study on the word "hope" in the New Testament. The vast majority of the time "hope" is used in the New Testament it is in the context of our hope as Christians that Christ has conquered death and is going to return. It is in Christ Himself, and the hope that we harbor, that peace is found and fear diminishes. Like any relationship, the answer is time and building the relationship. We do that in Scripture, in prayer and in meditation.

2. If opportunity allows, spend some time volunteering in hospice care, hospital visitation or some other venue dealing with the sick and dying. This may sound like an off-the-wall suggestion, but you will never be the same again. I've learned more observing how people die and face tragedy in this area than I think I have learned in studying the issue in books and journals. Here's what I've learned:

a. In general, those people who accept, face and talk about death with their family, friends and loved ones do much better than those who are isolated and try to go it alone..

b. Those who act in denial of the reality of death and suffering, even their own, may seem pious, but they are usually not facing reality and they usually don't do as well as others. There's a fine line between faith and hope, and denial. True faith and hope hold fast to Christ and His promises but is not afraid to face reality, not only for themselves, but they realize that their family and loved ones need to talk about their hurts and fears. They look to the one dying for permission to do this. If the person is in denial then they talk outside the room and a golden opportunity is missed for the loved one affected to both minister and be ministered to. I have seen this time and time again and it is very true.

3. Realize you're normal. All of us to some degree fear death, if not for the reasons Christ has removed by his sacrifice for us, then at least for the sense of loss of relationship with those we love, and a fear of some element of the unknown. If you find that this is a growing fear and is debilitating you in terms of your ability to rejoice in and enjoy the life Christ has given you now, then consider in addition to the suggestions above, seeing a good Christian counselor or a pastor. It is Biblical to bring such burdens to others to share and in the sharing to learn and grow.

I hope this helps. I can go back and proof-text much of this for any who wish. I'm simply speaking from my heart in this regard primarily from experience but also from Scripture.

If you or anyone else would like to private message me on this or any other matter, you are welcome to do so.

God's blessings upon you. First and foremost the antidote to fear is Love. Perfect love is found in God through Christ. The stronger our relationship with Him, the more real our hope is to us. Hope takes the sting from death and grasps victory even from the grave. These are important words and concepts to grasp. I find I've learned more about them in the trenches with the sick and dying then I have in the ivory towers of learning and intellectualizing things.

Blessings,

Bart

Hi Michael,

I think Bart gave you some excellent suggestions that should help you refocus on Christ and what he means to us all, i.e. the triumph of life over death.

I will share with you some personal things. I also have 2 boys and my older one (13 years, who happens to be a Michael as well), was diagnosed from early on with ADD, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and most recently with OCD and very low hormonal levels. Throughout all of this, my wife and I have managed to keep things in perspective and of course, we've always turned to God for guidance. But when Michael started talking about death and what it was like, questing when it will happen to him, that's when I pretty much almost lost it (with God). It was ok for me to be tried like that, I can handle it. But why in the world would God try a child in this manner? Why is it that all my prayers to take his pains and his doubts away from him and upon myself haven't been answered? I was anguished beyond belief. A couple of weeks ago Michael came to me and wanted to talk about Christmas and I'm like, what? It's summer Mike, what brought Christmas to mind at this time? And he told me that he's been thinking about other kids who are less fortunate and how he'd like to do something about it through the Toys For Tots organization. He said he wanted to reserve a part of allowance for a donation and also see about volunteering for them. And I thought to myself you know, I'm a moron. Here I am feeling sorry for him and doubting God in the process, and here he is teaching me a lesson in humility and selflessness.

Michael, I really don't know why I'm telling you all this. I don't have any words of wisdom, just this abbreviated personal story of my son. I hope somehow you find it helpful.

God bless,

John.

thanks for your replys . I am starting to feel better. Still don't the cause though. At least I amon medication now that I hope/pray will work.

It seem you may have all gone through much worse than me and yet your faith seems stronger.

I think my strong brain gets in the way of my spiritual side.
I understand what I read in the Bible well and the changes in the way I live my life are making good progress.

I am still searching for that really good Church. It seems Satan has put some blocks in path in checking out this one community church. I hope this Sunday I will feel well enough to go.

I think when I lived that wild life I didn't have much fear of death.
Part of me was busy thinking I was having fun from the effect of drugs and drinking. Another maybe would have welcomed death to end the hidden pain inside.

Now I have so much to live for and don't want to leave that behind.
Why would God give me so much to be happy for and then take it all away? I pray/hope that he won't allow it.



Michael
Thomas

Hey Bluey, thanks for sharing.. I have my doubts too. I too was a smoker and one time I had to go to the emergency room because I was coughing up blood. I thought, am I going to die? So they did some x-rays and everything was cool. I just had bronchitis. So I stopped smoking and started watching my diet as well.... I feel a lot better now and excercise every week. Perhaps that would be something I would recommend as well.. (along with reading scripture).

To get your mind off it I would also recommend reading a good book or watch a good movie or listen to some good music... And don't forget to LAUGH... Laughter cures many hearts.

I always remember that Forest Gump movie... Just run Forest, just runnn...!!

We all will have to face it some day in our lives... It's inevitable and God knows it.. Hopefully Christ will come soon so we don't even have to go through it.

Take care,

Gerald

Its the unknown of it that occupies the mind. Searching the internet for a possible cause which doesn't help.

As we all age most of will face a serious illness and It would be nice to have a stronger faith in the after-life.

I don't so much care what or how is on the other-side just know 100% for sure there is an after-life is all I really need.

Its that little bit of doubt of God existence , that little bit of doubt that Jesus is real .

Even if I was left behind in a rapture at least I would know for sure by such a sign.

God talked to Adam, Moses had the Burning Bush, before Jesus were all the prophets, and during Jesus time there was the healing and miracles.
If only Jesus showed me his wound like he did for Thomas.

We live in a time without prophets and where are the great miracles and signs to help us believe.

Michael
Thomas

Michael, Got ya... Well I guess when someone confronts me about God and says "Where's the proof" I always say "We have proof", and one way I believe we can see God's proof is in nature... I always refer them to Romans 1:20.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse.

When you look at the complexity of this planet, there is just NO WAY that it came by a random chance. It is sooo complex that scientists today are starting to admit that life couldn't come from nothing. Something had to be there to start it in motion. Of course they think it was an alien or E.T. or something, not God per say, by they are now starting to realize that it had some type of intervention.

Hope this helps,

G -

I have read most all the Lee Strobel books. So I know most the evidence.
I am thinking Satan is play tricks with me and trying to take me from Jesus.
Its at a time when my faith was really starting to grow.
Then I have been going through some stress with work and now this.
Maybe It just some really bad blues or a little depression.

I think the evidence I need is the Holy Ghost.

Michael Thomas

bluesman wrote:I have read most all the Lee Strobel books. So I know most the evidence.
I am thinking Satan is play tricks with me and trying to take me from Jesus.
Its at a time when my faith was really starting to grow.
Then I have been going through some stress with work and now this.
Maybe It just some really bad blues or a little depression.

I think the evidence I need is the Holy Ghost.

Michael Thomas

Your Faith always comes under attack when it Grows! It is the way you know that Satan does not like what God is doing in your life! That is when you want to persevere and move along. Instead of waiting take the Step. Step out in Faith and go to Church this Sunday instead of saying next week or after I feel Better. The Devil is not going to stop attacking you so you have to fight back by using that Faith to step out. Remember Faith comes through Believing and Believing through the Word of God.

God Bless You

bluesman wrote:I have read most all the Lee Strobel books. So I know most the evidence.
I am thinking Satan is play tricks with me and trying to take me from Jesus.
Its at a time when my faith was really starting to grow.
Then I have been going through some stress with work and now this.
Maybe It just some really bad blues or a little depression.

I think the evidence I need is the Holy Ghost.

Michael Thomas

Hi Michael,
I am well acquainted with depression. I feel for you. As a matter of fact I was feeling pretty down the other day and our resident Catholic Byblos encouraged me. He is a blessing. When we get like this and start looking inward things will obviously look dark, especially if you're the type like me who over thinks things.

Look to Jesus the author and finisher of your faith. He is right there with you in the valley, even if it seems so dark that you feel like you can't see or hear Him. Talk to Him and praise Him even when you don't feel like it, and then praise Him some more.

I know you're a big Lee Strobel fan. I'm reading "A case for faith" right now. I got a lot out of the first chapter where he was talking to his christian philosopher friend about why God allows suffering. The bottom line is that it brings us closer to Him. Jesus felt and endured every bit of that suffering on the cross. We could never fathom the depth of suffering and sin that was poured on Him, and yet for the joy that was set before Him He willingly endured it. It wasn't easy. It's not supposed to be or it wouldn't be suffering, but there is joy at the other side.

Satan may or may not be doing his work on you. I wouldn't put it past him. You have nothing to fear from him, he's been declawed and toothless since Calvary, and cheap shots and lies are all he can do, but greater is He who is in you than he that is in the world. I like what Martin Luther said when Satan appeared before him in his study one day. Luther just looked at him calmly and said "oh, it's you" and ignored him and went back to work.

Take care
John

FFC wrote:

bluesman wrote:I have read most all the Lee Strobel books. So I know most the evidence.
I am thinking Satan is play tricks with me and trying to take me from Jesus.
Its at a time when my faith was really starting to grow.
Then I have been going through some stress with work and now this.
Maybe It just some really bad blues or a little depression.

I think the evidence I need is the Holy Ghost.

Michael Thomas

Hi Michael,
I am well acquainted with depression. I feel for you. As a matter of fact I was feeling pretty down the other day and our resident Catholic Byblos encouraged me. He is a blessing. When we get like this and start looking inward things will obviously look dark, especially if you're the type like me who over thinks things.

Look to Jesus the author and finisher of your faith. He is right there with you in the valley, even if it seems so dark that you feel like you can't see or hear Him. Talk to Him and praise Him even when you don't feel like it, and then praise Him some more.

I know you're a big Lee Strobel fan. I'm reading "A case for faith" right now. I got a lot out of the first chapter where he was talking to his christian philosopher friend about why God allows suffering. The bottom line is that it brings us closer to Him. Jesus felt and endured every bit of that suffering on the cross. We could never fathom the depth of suffering and sin that was poured on Him, and yet for the joy that was set before Him He willingly endured it. It wasn't easy. It's not supposed to be or it wouldn't be suffering, but there is joy at the other side.

Satan may or may not be doing his work on you. I wouldn't put it past him. You have nothing to fear from him, he's been declawed and toothless since Calvary, and cheap shots and lies are all he can do, but greater is He who is in you than he that is in the world. I like what Martin Luther said when Satan appeared before him in his study one day. Luther just looked at him calmly and said "oh, it's you" and ignored him and went back to work.

Take care
John

My cure for Depression:

1. Do all that I know to be doing:
a. Am I eating healthy?
b. Am I getting enough sleep?
c. Am I exercising?
d. Am I using depressants such as alcohol that I don't need?

2. Am I spending time with God? - Devotions make a difference for me. If I am not at peace with God, then I often am not at peace with myself and this contributes to depression for me.

3. Am I spending time with others in right relationship? Isolating from my wife, my children or my friends is a sure sign something is out of balance. I need these people.

4. Am I harboring known sin in my life? This will affect my relationship with God and others. I can't afford to be caught in a private life that I try to hide from God, those who love me or myself.

If I still have problems (and remember, I've had a major gland removed from my body and had cancer in the past) then I see a doctor or a counsellor. I don't mind sharing that I've had difficulty in my past with suicidal thoughts and major depression. I've learned the time to address issues in my life is when they are little chicks. Waiting until full-grown chickens come home to roost is too dangerous for me to entertain.

Bart

Canuckster1127 wrote:

FFC wrote:

bluesman wrote:I have read most all the Lee Strobel books. So I know most the evidence.
I am thinking Satan is play tricks with me and trying to take me from Jesus.
Its at a time when my faith was really starting to grow.
Then I have been going through some stress with work and now this.
Maybe It just some really bad blues or a little depression.

I think the evidence I need is the Holy Ghost.

Michael Thomas

Hi Michael,
I am well acquainted with depression. I feel for you. As a matter of fact I was feeling pretty down the other day and our resident Catholic Byblos encouraged me. He is a blessing. When we get like this and start looking inward things will obviously look dark, especially if you're the type like me who over thinks things.

Look to Jesus the author and finisher of your faith. He is right there with you in the valley, even if it seems so dark that you feel like you can't see or hear Him. Talk to Him and praise Him even when you don't feel like it, and then praise Him some more.

I know you're a big Lee Strobel fan. I'm reading "A case for faith" right now. I got a lot out of the first chapter where he was talking to his christian philosopher friend about why God allows suffering. The bottom line is that it brings us closer to Him. Jesus felt and endured every bit of that suffering on the cross. We could never fathom the depth of suffering and sin that was poured on Him, and yet for the joy that was set before Him He willingly endured it. It wasn't easy. It's not supposed to be or it wouldn't be suffering, but there is joy at the other side.

Satan may or may not be doing his work on you. I wouldn't put it past him. You have nothing to fear from him, he's been declawed and toothless since Calvary, and cheap shots and lies are all he can do, but greater is He who is in you than he that is in the world. I like what Martin Luther said when Satan appeared before him in his study one day. Luther just looked at him calmly and said "oh, it's you" and ignored him and went back to work.

Take care
John

My cure for Depression:

1. Do all that I know to be doing:
a. Am I eating healthy?
b. Am I getting enough sleep?
c. Am I exercising?
d. Am I using depressants such as alcohol that I don't need?

2. Am I spending time with God? - Devotions make a difference for me. If I am not at peace with God, then I often am not at peace with myself and this contributes to depression for me.

3. Am I spending time with others in right relationship? Isolating from my wife, my children or my friends is a sure sign something is out of balance. I need these people.

4. Am I harboring known sin in my life? This will affect my relationship with God and others. I can't afford to be caught in a private life that I try to hide from God, those who love me or myself.

If I still have problems (and remember, I've had a major gland removed from my body and had cancer in the past) then I see a doctor or a counsellor. I don't mind sharing that I've had difficulty in my past with suicidal thoughts and major depression. I've learned the time to address issues in my life is when they are little chicks. Waiting until full-grown chickens come home to roost is too dangerous for me to entertain.

Bart

We definately have to consider who we are as whole as you have pointed out.

When I feel like it is a physiological depression I use 5-hpt for a couple of months. It's an all natural form of the amino acid tryptophan. I sleep great, have the best dreams and replenish my serotonin. In Germany this is prescribed more often than prozac and has virtually no side effects.

Actually I have started taking St. John's Wort which is Hypericum perforatum. Don't know if that what your referring to or not.
I heard that in Germany they do prescribe it.
Here they now keep it behind the counter because it affects the birth control pill. I told the pharmacist that I don't think I have that problem.

I was in the past on Paxcil for maybe a week before I wanted and went off it.
Very strong drug, but I wasn't suicidal so I didn't need its side-effects.
Wellbutrin is a much better choice and it can help you stop smoking too.
Funny when your depressed the Doctor tells you not to quit smoking.

What I also took some is some motion sick pills and they sure helped me to sleep. Lack of sleep sure has some bad effects on mind and body.

I do believe that I am getting better, must be some crazy virus.
I just hate the way my mood freaked out because we don't know what is the cause.

I know with my increasing age and just life that more crisis and worse ones will come. I need to have more personal strength in these times.

My wife , a much stronger person of faith, sure helps me a lot. Bless her heart. She has worked as a nurses aid in the past. Some with people that were terminal from aids and such. She has told me some storys that seem right out of that movie "Ghost". Like people that lived bad lives without Christ had visions of evil black spirits coming for them. The people with Christ had good visions and such. However, this is all her story to tell.
She is a strong believer in gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Thats why and other reason want to feel this Holy Spirit (again?).
I do believe once I felt it quite strong. After coming home from the hospital recovering from pneumonia. My Mother prayed for Jesus to lay his healing hands on me. (My Mom and Dad are quite active members of Church).
Well it was right away that I was much more at peace.
I was able to take a sleeping pill that previous I was too afraid to take.
Got a good nights sleep and felt so much better the next day.
Some might say it was just the power of a Mother, but I believe that it was the Holy Spirit/Jesus/God.

So would anybody like to share their experience or thoughts on the Holy Ghost or on hearing/feeling God?

Michael
Thomas

Thanks everyone for your help, its been very helpful.
God Bless

FFC wrote:Satan may or may not be doing his work on you. I wouldn't put it past him. You have nothing to fear from him, he's been declawed and toothless since Calvary, and cheap shots and lies are all he can do, but greater is He who is in you than he that is in the world. I like what Martin Luther said when Satan appeared before him in his study one day. Luther just looked at him calmly and said "oh, it's you" and ignored him and went back to work.

Strange, I heard he threw an ink pot at Satan.

Anyway, there is a Bible text that always helps me in my doubts, James 1:5-6.

'If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.'

This text clearly says that if you need wisdom...and you believe God wants to give you wisdom...you will receive it.
And of course God wants to give you wisdom. And He can do so, too. So what's going to stop Him?

Turgy wrote:Strange, I heard he threw an ink pot at Satan.

Yeah, you may be right. Maybe he threw the ink pot when he wouldn't leave.