Evidence for God from Science

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 88,00.html

Posted without comment.

Any thoughts or responses to the message of this article?

it sounds like a lot of speculation at this point. I'm just glad I don't have any older brothers.

I read one article on this yesterday and when I read the headlines I thought they were going to conclude that having a big brother would be an envirnmental factor and therefore homosexuals are not born that way but choose that because of life factors. They chose however to conclude that this was a 'genetic' factor and therefore supports them being born that way. I think it is just more grasping at straws for a 'genetic factor'. I always like to back to twin studies. If homosexuality was genetic, then you could not have identical twins with one homosexual and one heterosexual. This happens often so since their genes are identical it must be a choice and not genetic.

Ray

ray wrote:I always like to back to twin studies. If homosexuality was genetic, then you could not have identical twins with one homosexual and one heterosexual. This happens often so since their genes are identical it must be a choice and not genetic.

Ray

No this is incorrect, for something to be linked to genetics the odds of something occurring with twins only needs to be significantly higher statistically than the rest of the population.

This is because both genetics and environment effect the outcome. Genetic traits have been shown to lead to tendancies not exact outcomes. Only certain things like eye color are absolutely dictated by genetic factors, most traits are variable due to the environment such as breast cancer succeptibility.

So going back to a study lets say identical twins have a 25% chance of sharing a trait while fraternal twins show only 14% and normal siblings and complete strangers have a 5% chance of sharing a trait. In this case we can safely say that genetics has an influence on this trait.

In this case we can safely say that genetics has an influence on this trait.

What trait are you refering too? Traits in general or the homosexual trait?

Gman wrote:

In this case we can safely say that genetics has an influence on this trait.

What trait are you refering too? Traits in general or the homosexual trait?

Traits in general.

For instance lets say we did a study on food preferences. Lets say we have four groups. Twins who grew up together(Group A), twins separated at birth(Group B), non-twin siblings(Group C), and perfect strangers(Group D).

Lets say we have 100 pairs in each group.
We poll each individual for which kinds of foods they prefer the most. They have a choice between sweet, and salty.

The results come back as follows.

Group A
49% chose the same choice
Group B
51% chose the same choice
Group C
28% chose the same choice
Group D
22% chose the same choice

We can see that genetics does indeed seem to be a factor in food preference.

And how does this relate to the homosexual trait?

If homosexuality is genetic and the person has no choice at all in the matter then both twins from one egg will be homosexual or heterosexual, the same way both twins from one egg must be either male or female. This does not happen so there is a choice involved in homosexuality.

Ray

This does not happen so there is a choice involved in homosexuality.

Ok, got ya... Agreed.

ray wrote:If homosexuality is genetic and the person has no choice at all in the matter then both twins from one egg will be homosexual or heterosexual, the same way both twins from one egg must be either male or female. This does not happen so there is a choice involved in homosexuality.

Ray

That's one way of looking at what BGood was saying. Another way would be that genetics do play a role in homosexuality but it's not the only role. It's a combination of both genetic and environmental factors. I could be wrong but I believe that's what he was driving at.

Byblos wrote:

ray wrote:If homosexuality is genetic and the person has no choice at all in the matter then both twins from one egg will be homosexual or heterosexual, the same way both twins from one egg must be either male or female. This does not happen so there is a choice involved in homosexuality.

Ray

That's one way of looking at what BGood was saying. Another way would be that genetics do play a role in homosexuality but it's not the only role. It's a combination of both genetic and environmental factors. I could be wrong but I believe that's what he was driving at.

That's my view. I believe that there are genetic factors that may incline someone in that direction more than others. However, it's not an absolute and there are factors of environment and choice that play into it as well.

Canuckster1127 wrote:

Byblos wrote:

ray wrote:If homosexuality is genetic and the person has no choice at all in the matter then both twins from one egg will be homosexual or heterosexual, the same way both twins from one egg must be either male or female. This does not happen so there is a choice involved in homosexuality.

Ray

That's one way of looking at what BGood was saying. Another way would be that genetics do play a role in homosexuality but it's not the only role. It's a combination of both genetic and environmental factors. I could be wrong but I believe that's what he was driving at.

That's my view. I believe that there are genetic factors that may incline someone in that direction more than others. However, it's not an absolute and there are factors of environment and choice that play into it as well.

And on top of all that there is the sin factor. We are all born with all the seeds of every sin in us. Maybe some are more "genetically" presupposed to certain sins than others, but there isn't one of us who couldn't fall into any of them.

Romans 7

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.