Evidence for God from Science

I am having a discussion with a Mormon Pastor...
Interesting enough our Discussion led into the Celesial Bodies (Earth, Moon, Sun, Venus etc) having Spirits basically being our Spirit Brother. We finally got down to Matter cannot be Destroyed nor Created.

It came to the Point that Matter is Eternally Existent. So I said then Matter is then God? Of course he denied that but I went further saying that if Matter was not created by God then it must be an equal to God then. He said that God and Matter Eternally Existed but God had more of a Foreknowledge and used Matter to Create. Any Scriptures can I use to prove the point of Matter being created by God? Especially to a Mormon?

Thanks

It's not enough that God created light as well as the heavens? Both those things combined would pretty much account for all matter wouldn't you say? Actually light IS matter, as shown by Einstein and also by nuclear conversions that change matter into energy. As for the heavens, if heavens means the celestial bodies then it's pretty obvious, or if it just means space-time itself then clearly matter could not exist without it. Does the book of mormon have an account of Genesis?

Seems this guy's science is a real mess. BTW if it's argued that light isn't matter, then he has to concede that matter can be destroyed in the form on nuclear reactions. Either light is matter and God's creation of light accounts for it, or else matter is not eternal; he can't have it both ways.

Felgar wrote:It's not enough that God created light as well as the heavens? Both those things combined would pretty much account for all matter wouldn't you say? Actually light IS matter, as shown by Einstein and also by nuclear conversions that change matter into energy. As for the heavens, if heavens means the celestial bodies then it's pretty obvious, or if it just means space-time itself then clearly matter could not exist without it. Does the book of mormon have an account of Genesis?

Seems this guy's science is a real mess. BTW if it's argued that light isn't matter, then he has to concede that matter can be destroyed in the form on nuclear reactions. Either light is matter and God's creation of light accounts for it, or else matter is not eternal; he can't have it both ways.

Even more interesting is that He believes The Earth is a Spirit as with all things created by God. We also were all born as spirits before the Beginning of the World then sent down to Earth. Yet another in the Book of Abraham he says that the Earth is like a Grain of Sand. So multiple Dimensions oh boy this will be an interesting Conversation.

Yikes! In such conversations I'm of the opinion that what one is looking for is external validation of one's beliefs (i.e. validation through science). If you don't want to resort to an external source of data then there is really no discussion because each can have their faith completely aside from science or anything else. Where is there any scientific evidence of a rock possessing a spirit?

I wonder if he would care of shear numbers. Being that we have about 6 billion people on Earth and maybe as many throughout history it would make say, 10 billion souls total? Compared with celestial bodies we have: 400 billion stars (solar systems) in our galaxy, and possibly about 130 billion galaxies. Which makes for 50,000 billion billion solar systems, each of which containing how many spirit-containing planets/moons, etc? We are talking about each person being complemented by about 5 trillion solar systems. Not sure if that will have an impact on him but maybe it will. Here's a link about the estimates: http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~gmackie/billions.html

Felgar wrote:Yikes! In such conversations I'm of the opinion that what one is looking for is external validation of one's beliefs (i.e. validation through science). If you don't want to resort to an external source of data then there is really no discussion because each can have their faith completely aside from science or anything else. Where is there any scientific evidence of a rock possessing a spirit?

I wonder if he would care of shear numbers. Being that we have about 6 billion people on Earth and maybe as many throughout history it would make say, 10 billion souls total? Compared with celestial bodies we have: 400 billion stars (solar systems) in our galaxy, and possibly about 130 billion galaxies. Which makes for 50,000 billion billion solar systems, each of which containing how many spirit-containing planets/moons, etc? We are talking about each person being complemented by about 5 trillion solar systems. Not sure if that will have an impact on him but maybe it will. Here's a link about the estimates: http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~gmackie/billions.html

Also on top there might be people on those other Earths

bizzt wrote:

Felgar wrote:Yikes! In such conversations I'm of the opinion that what one is looking for is external validation of one's beliefs (i.e. validation through science). If you don't want to resort to an external source of data then there is really no discussion because each can have their faith completely aside from science or anything else. Where is there any scientific evidence of a rock possessing a spirit?

I wonder if he would care of shear numbers. Being that we have about 6 billion people on Earth and maybe as many throughout history it would make say, 10 billion souls total? Compared with celestial bodies we have: 400 billion stars (solar systems) in our galaxy, and possibly about 130 billion galaxies. Which makes for 50,000 billion billion solar systems, each of which containing how many spirit-containing planets/moons, etc? We are talking about each person being complemented by about 5 trillion solar systems. Not sure if that will have an impact on him but maybe it will. Here's a link about the estimates: http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~gmackie/billions.html

Also on top there might be people on those other Earths

Their founder and prophet Joseph smith claimed that there were Mormons living on the moon. They are all an average of 6 feet tall, live to be 1000 years old, and dress in the Quaker style. I'm picturing the guy from the Quaker Oats box.

Must have been a bummer for them when no one came out to meet the Americans eh? lol

Is that the key to living 1000 years? Stop breathing?

Felgar wrote:Must have been a bummer for them when no one came out to meet the Americans eh? lol

Maybe they sleep for month's at a time and forgot to set their alarms.

Felgar wrote:Is that the key to living 1000 years? Stop breathing?

And wear funny hats.

Also on top there might be people on those other Earths

You mean you didn't talk to him about Kolob or how black people got their black skin? And you Canadians didn't think you had any problems...

Just an fyi, as I'm writing this I have an LDS commercial running in the background on my t.v.. I'm being invaded... A coincidence I guess?

G -

It is definately Weird. They get most of the stuff from a seperate Book or shall we say Testament of Jesus Christ. It is definately weird but intriguing at the same time. I shall have many more conversations with him!

Can't resist ......

A Southern Baptist walked into a grocery store with mormon proprietors.

The Baptist asked for maters, taters, and melons.

The Mormons said, "Hey, you're a Baptist aren't you?"

He replied, "Yes. How did ya know?"

They said they knew by the way he talked.

After the Baptist left, the two mormons agreed to go to a store run by a Baptist and talk like them to see if they could fool them.

So the next day the two Mormons went into a store and asked the Baptist owner if they could get some maters, taters, and melons.

The owner questioned, "Your Mormons ain't ya?"

With astonishment they said, "Yes we are. We used our best accent. How could you tell?"

He said, "Cause boys...this here is a hardware store."

Canuckster1127 wrote:Can't resist ......

A Southern Baptist walked into a grocery store with mormon proprietors.

The Baptist asked for maters, taters, and melons.

The Mormons said, "Hey, you're a Baptist aren't you?"

He replied, "Yes. How did ya know?"

They said they knew by the way he talked.

After the Baptist left, the two mormons agreed to go to a store run by a Baptist and talk like them to see if they could fool them.

So the next day the two Mormons went into a store and asked the Baptist owner if they could get some maters, taters, and melons.

The owner questioned, "Your Mormons ain't ya?"

With astonishment they said, "Yes we are. We used our best accent. How could you tell?"

He said, "Cause boys...this here is a hardware store."