I have a question about the Tower of Babel. I am on another Forum and I got asked this question or series of questions.
"Here's my idea/question: The tower of Babble!!!?
Why would "God" have done this, knowing it added confusion to "spreading the Gospel", or even the pursuit of the Gospel!!! And how can we explain the "different" languages of native peoples on the American Continents! And of the Aboriginees Peoples on the Australian Continent! They weren't even AT the tower of Babble!?"
I know the basic answer why God wanted to do this is because Man was getting a little shall we say "over sure" of themselves or doing something like Satan did in Isaiah 14. If it was not a Global Flood then others elsewhere would have had Different Languages as well!
I think it would be natural over time for any populations isolated from each other to develop different/new languages. All the native peoples in America could have started out with the same language.
More generally regarding the tower, and on the subject of why God would do that... Note that with the same language (and apperance?) they were acting as one nation/people.
Genesis 11:6
The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.
Consider what would be possible for mankind if we never fought wars; if we were perfectly unified. On first reaction, one probably thinks "that sounds great, why would God stop that?"
Honestly I don't know the answer, but I've given it some thought. Perhaps it was that unless God interfered mankind would progress too quickly - and nuclear weapons at the time of Christ must not have fit into God's plan. So perhaps the tower was just God guiding us according to His merficul plan for all.
And before you start doubting why God would actually want people not to be rich, not to be so powerful, and not to be so knowleadgeable consider: “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!” (Mark 10:23)
And we see evidence of the very same thing today. We as a culture get so caught up in relativitism, in scientific pursuits, etc. that we lose sight of fundamental truths. How many people are saved within our culture today vs. 200 years ago? Is the church saving more souls right now in China or in America?
Thanks I have been on the website quite a bit and throughly Enjoy it!
Felgar wrote:
I think it would be natural over time for any populations isolated from each other to develop different/new languages. All the native peoples in America could have started out with the same language.
More generally regarding the tower, and on the subject of why God would do that... Note that with the same language (and apperance?) they were acting as one nation/people.
Genesis 11:6
The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.
Consider what would be possible for mankind if we never fought wars; if we were perfectly unified. On first reaction, one probably thinks "that sounds great, why would God stop that?"
Honestly I don't know the answer, but I've given it some thought. Perhaps it was that unless God interfered mankind would progress too quickly - and nuclear weapons at the time of Christ must not have fit into God's plan. So perhaps the tower was just God guiding us according to His merficul plan for all.
And before you start doubting why God would actually want people not to be rich, not to be so powerful, and not to be so knowleadgeable consider: “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!” (Mark 10:23)
And we see evidence of the very same thing today. We as a culture get so caught up in relativitism, in scientific pursuits, etc. that we lose sight of fundamental truths. How many people are saved within our culture today vs. 200 years ago? Is the church saving more souls right now in China or in America?
Let me ask a bigger Question... Were all People Gathered at the Tower of Babel?
I believe God did that because they were following in Satan's footsteps. First build a tower to reach God, and as their audacity grew, they would likely attempt to surpass God. Knowing this, God put an end to their actions before they could damn themselves.
bizzt wrote:Let me ask a bigger Question... Were all People Gathered at the Tower of Babel?
Without studying the whole passage in-depth (and also because I'm more interested in where you're going with this than in the question itself) I'll answer quickly.
I'd say that most were, being it the center of activity at that time. Most people were, but not all were.
bizzt wrote:Let me ask a bigger Question... Were all People Gathered at the Tower of Babel?
Without studying the whole passage in-depth (and also because I'm more interested in where you're going with this than in the question itself) I'll answer quickly.
I'd say that most were, being it the center of activity at that time. Most people were, but not all were.
LOL
You caught me! I was basically trying to understand was this part of Scripture (being in Genesis and all) taken to be a commandment over all Mankind or Israel (although Israel was not BORN- so to speak as of yet). Based on Evolutionary Theory there were many people all over the world by the time of the Tower of Babel If that were true then was this a Global Judgement or Localized as we believe the Flood was?
bizzt wrote:Based on Evolutionary Theory there were many people all over the world by the time of the Tower of Babel If that were true then was this a Global Judgement or Localized as we believe the Flood was?
Well I'm not sure I agree with either Evolutionary Theory or the Localized flood, so I can't really comment here.
Regardless of whether the whole Earth was covered in water, or just the Middle East, I would maintain the belief that the entire human population was reduced to Noah and his family. The tower happens at some point after the flood, and I would imagine that most of the population of the world was around or near the tower - not having yet had time to spread out across the world.
In fact I had always thought that God spreading the people was the only reasonable answer for why we see indiginous peoples on small remote islands (like Hawaii) - and all over the world.
bizzt wrote:Based on Evolutionary Theory there were many people all over the world by the time of the Tower of Babel If that were true then was this a Global Judgement or Localized as we believe the Flood was?
Well I'm not sure I agree with either Evolutionary Theory or the Localized flood, so I can't really comment here.
Regardless of whether the whole Earth was covered in water, or just the Middle East, I would maintain the belief that the entire human population was reduced to Noah and his family. The tower happens at some point after the flood, and I would imagine that most of the population of the world was around or near the tower - not having yet had time to spread out across the world.
In fact I had always thought that God spreading the people was the only reasonable answer for why we see indiginous peoples on small remote islands (like Hawaii) - and all over the world.
Comments?
This is where i get Confused! If the Entire Human Pop was reduced to Noah and his Family when did they Live? As per Dating via RadioMetric, Carbon etc... humans were located in many different areas of the world! It kind of hangs on whether Noah really was the only one left, a Global Flood, or Localized Flood!
bizzt wrote:This is where i get Confused! If the Entire Human Pop was reduced to Noah and his Family when did they Live? As per Dating via RadioMetric, Carbon etc... humans were located in many different areas of the world! It kind of hangs on whether Noah really was the only one left, a Global Flood, or Localized Flood!
I'll just keep answering my own ideas until someone shoots me down.
God said "I will destroy every living creature on the ground." Now I could maybe accept that God meant only people, and so I'd buy a localized flood theory under the condition that the people were also localized and were all killed - but I don't accept that any people (native Americans) for instance were sparred from the flood.
In fact I'm claiming that the reason we see people having lived everywhere is they were moved there during the tower episode. How would a primitive people construct ocean-worthy boats and navigate the Pacific to land on Hawaii?
With regards to dating techniques, I don't believe the case to support very old life is very convincing. Carbon dating is suspect and also prone to error.
Now if you show me 5000 examples of dating from various points all pointing to the same age then I'll start buying into it, but in reality I believe those dates are few and far between - not a convincing tale. Incidently I'd say that the evidence supporting an old Earth (4.5 billion years) based on radioactive dating is scientifically far more convincing than fossil dating.
Genesis 1:28 says, "God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it."
Genesis 9:1 says, "Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth."
There is reason to believe the people before the flood also disobeyed these commands to spread out, and as such a lot of evil was forth-coming, which resulting in the flood. Scripture only refers to Mesopotamia region before the flood, and God after the flood, right after mentioning the value of human life, says to multiply across the earth and increase in number (Genesis 9:6-7). Increasing in number is an obvious safeguard against humanity being wiped out (as they're increasing). It could be said that being multiplied across the earth is also a safeguard against evil by men having greater reign. For example, having separate nations means one can become the conscience of another, even judge in reaction to moral atrocities being committed within another nation.
Then we come to the tower scenario, and in Genesis 11:4 we find mankind goes directly against God's commandment: 'Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth."'
Kurieuo.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
Co-operation and communication between humans is at an all time high in recorded history. These have led to amazing technological developments these days. We are now having ethical debates about cloning and designer babies. Was this what God was preventing when He sent lingual confusion? Were those 'primitives' building a spaceship to colonise other planets or even travel to heavenly dimensions? I don't know..
RGeeB wrote:Co-operation and communication between humans is at an all time high in recorded history. These have led to amazing technological developments these days. We are now having ethical debates about cloning and designer babies. Was this what God was preventing when He sent lingual confusion? Were those 'primitives' building a spaceship to colonise other planets or even travel to heavenly dimensions? I don't know..
Well, I would doubt that they were at that point yet; but it's all about the curve. Once you start up that steep slope that we're on now, advancement is so rapid. Think about what would be possible in 1000 years - considering that we figured out airplanes and then less than 70 years later we landed on the moon. How many centuries did God set the world back? Tough to know really, but a number at least I'd say.
Think back even 10 years. My bro was just starting college, and he could not do programming work from home. A year later they installed dial-up, and within 3 more years every computer lab in the college and the University had broadband internet.
One place I'm really disappointed about our advancement is with space exploration. Looking forward to Hyugens; but we shoud have been able to do more in the past 30 years.
A lot is spent on defense research. It just takes a while for those benefits to materialise for the common man. Maybe the cold war and the motivation for space exploration is just not the same anymore. The emphasis in research has also now shifted towards personal satisfaction from common good of mankind. Still, when nations co-operate to advance, God has and will have a say in it.
Kurieuo wrote:Genesis 1:28 says, "God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it."
Genesis 9:1 says, "Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth."
There is reason to believe the people before the flood also disobeyed these commands to spread out, and as such a lot of evil was forth-coming, which resulting in the flood. Scripture only refers to Mesopotamia region before the flood, and God after the flood, right after mentioning the value of human life, says to multiply across the earth and increase in number (Genesis 9:6-7). Increasing in number is an obvious safeguard against humanity being wiped out (as they're increasing). It could be said that being multiplied across the earth is also a safeguard against evil by men having greater reign. For example, having separate nations means one can become the conscience of another, even judge in reaction to moral atrocities being committed within another nation.
Then we come to the tower scenario, and in Genesis 11:4 we find mankind goes directly against God's commandment: 'Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth."'
Kurieuo.
Forgot to Mention Thanks Kurieuo. That makes a lot of sense!
Do we know the time when the Flood Happened?
