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Evil

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:53 am
by Live@theLevelOfChoice
"Does Evil exist?"

Hey all,

My name is Steven and I have just recently stumbled upon this website and liked it so much I linked it on my Blog. The Scientific approach to Christianity is a great tool for combating questioning non-believers. It is often much easier for people to initially relate to Scientific Facts. Anyway...I read the guidelines of this site for discussions, and felt it would be a great way to generate new thought on topics I am searching for a deeper understanding of. I will convey my thoughts if asked, but in a Christ-Like way.

I am not necessarily looking for the answer to this question of Evil, but rather need to affirm my own thoughts on the subject of Evil. I do believe it exists....Cause and affect are the real kickers.

Any thoughts on this subject? :wink:

Evil

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:23 pm
by Live@theLevelOfChoice
Alright....Let me put it this way.

Are the things we view as Evil affecting our personal lives, actually just that, or is it the result of our "Spiritual Condition"?

Re: Evil

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:31 pm
by FFC
Steven R. Lewandowski wrote:Alright....Let me put it this way.

Are the things we view as Evil affecting our personal lives, actually just that, or is it the result of our "Spiritual Condition"?
If you are pondering as to whether evil is relative, I would disagree, knowing right from wrong and good from evil is universal, in addition to that it's not just our spiritual condition that perpetuates evil, it's also perpetuated by The evil one himself, the father of lies and accuser of the brethren. Satan himself.

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:17 pm
by Live@tLeveloChoice
I was specific to our personal lives with this question not to generalize evil. Do you think that Satan causes the "evil" we experience in our lives?

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:27 pm
by Live@theLevelOfChoice
Live@tLeveloChoice wrote:I was specific to our personal lives with this question not to generalize evil. Do you think that Satan causes the "evil" we experience in our lives?
FFC...by the way...My user name has changed to represent a theme of mine.
This reply was from Steven.

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:29 pm
by Canuckster1127
Define evil. ;)

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:37 pm
by FFC
Live@theLevelOfChoice wrote:
Live@tLeveloChoice wrote:I was specific to our personal lives with this question not to generalize evil. Do you think that Satan causes the "evil" we experience in our lives?
Hi Steven, not entirely, there is also our sin nature and the world (the evil system) in which the Devil has his domain.

Bart, off the top of my head I would define evil as anything that is opposed to God and His purposes.

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:51 pm
by Live@theLevelOfChoice
Canuckster1127 wrote:Define evil. ;)
Moral evil is any deviation of a moral agent from the rules of conduct prescribed to him by God....Seems to characterize sin.

I'll go ahead and give you my thoughts on this subject of "Evil"...please let me know what you think.

There is External Evil and Internal Sin. The greater, or deeper our personal relationship with Jesus Christ is, ie... Faith, Prayer, Dependence, Love....the less we will allow External Evil to affect us. I believe External Evil can, and probably is one of Gods tools to strengthen our Faith which will in turn have a direct impact on our Internal Sin. Because of these "Choices" we will make based on our individual desire to follow Christ...we will sin less, not be sinless, but sin less....so on a personal level
Less sin = Less evil"

--SRL

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:57 pm
by Live@theLevelOfChoice
FFC wrote:
Live@theLevelOfChoice wrote:
Live@tLeveloChoice wrote:I was specific to our personal lives with this question not to generalize evil. Do you think that Satan causes the "evil" we experience in our lives?
Hi Steven, not entirely, there is also our sin nature and the world (the evil system) in which the Devil has his domain.

Bart, off the top of my head I would define evil as anything that is opposed to God and His purposes.
I am going to have to say that my position would be Satan is not, nor can be the cause of the repercussions of sin we experience in our lives as a result of of our choices.

Watta Think? :wink:

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:32 pm
by Canuckster1127
Live@theLevelOfChoice wrote:
FFC wrote:
Live@theLevelOfChoice wrote:
Live@tLeveloChoice wrote:I was specific to our personal lives with this question not to generalize evil. Do you think that Satan causes the "evil" we experience in our lives?
Hi Steven, not entirely, there is also our sin nature and the world (the evil system) in which the Devil has his domain.

Bart, off the top of my head I would define evil as anything that is opposed to God and His purposes.
I am going to have to say that my position would be Satan is not, nor can be the cause of the repercussions of sin we experience in our lives as a result of of our choices.

Watta Think? :wink:
I think what you are saying is that Humans are independently capable of and responsible for evil, apart from Satan.

I believe that is an accurate position.

What do you believe Scripture says with reference to that?

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:35 am
by Live@theLevelOfChoice
Canuckster1127 wrote:
Live@theLevelOfChoice wrote:
Live@tLeveloChoice wrote:I was specific to our personal lives with this question not to generalize evil. Do you think that Satan causes the "evil" we experience in our lives?

I am going to have to say that my position would be Satan is not, nor can be the cause of the repercussions of sin we experience in our lives as a result of of our choices.

Watta Think? :wink:
I think what you are saying is that Humans are independently capable of and responsible for evil, apart from Satan.

I believe that is an accurate position.

What do you believe Scripture says with reference to that?


I was raised in a Bible Based environment (My Father was a Baptist Minister in New England) and I memorized lots of scripture, but have only recently began to "dig" while trying to develop "LLC" I must answer you honestly, so off the top of my head I can not provide Scriptural support to my statement. It is the result of my intuitiveness on the subject as well as much discussion with a few I consider wiser than I. It is also the position I believe to have the most Positive affect on my life...I choose not to get into the semantics of all the "possible" cause and effect scenarios of evil...It just does not seem like good "Time Management"

I would appreciate sporting scripture if you would oblige :?:

Practical understanding of Eviiiiil

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 4:41 pm
by identity_in_development
Would people here agree that "evil" could be characterized as something destructive?

It seems that's essentially what the Ten Commandments, along with what Christ says, are all trying to protect against "destruction" as a general concept, right?

Killing: Destroys life.
Stealing: Destroys relationships and trust.
Lying: Destroys relationships and trust.
Adultery: Destroys relationships and trust.
Covet: Destroys trust.
Others (Labor, Lords name,etc): N/A

Is that a fair statement?

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:55 am
by Turgonian
Almost, but not quite. I don't agree with the 'N/A' part.

Breaking the first four Commandments destroy one's relationship with and trust in God. Additionally, not observing the Sabbath destroys one's peace of mind and therefore one's common sense. ;)

Re: Practical understanding of Eviiiiil

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:14 am
by Canuckster1127
identity_in_development wrote:Would people here agree that "evil" could be characterized as something destructive?

It seems that's essentially what the Ten Commandments, along with what Christ says, are all trying to protect against "destruction" as a general concept, right?

Killing: Destroys life.
Stealing: Destroys relationships and trust.
Lying: Destroys relationships and trust.
Adultery: Destroys relationships and trust.
Covet: Destroys trust.
Others (Labor, Lords name,etc): N/A

Is that a fair statement?
"Killing" in terms of destroying life, I'd not completely agree with. The admonition in the 10 commandments carries the idea of murder, in terms of taking a life without the benefit of law and justice, in the sense of a vendetta or with malice.

Evil as I understand it in Scripture carries with it the idea sin which ties more into the concept of missing the mark with the analogy of an archer aiming at a target and not hitting it. As such it is less than perfect or it is a distortian or twisting of something.

It's a fine distinction perhaps, but an important one I believe.

The New Testament does release or lessen some of the human interaction laws in terms of many of the levitical laws as they were established and enforced in the context of Israeli society. In all of them, I believe there remains some tie to an eternal principle that remains true and worthwhile to examine and respect. The literal enforcement of the Sabbath was certainly reduced by Christ's teaching and example and he criticized the Pharisees for the use of the law as a millstone about peoples necks.

The law serves several purposes, some tied into the Justice and Holiness of God. Some in terms of demonstrating to people their incapability of adhering to that standard and thus their need for an intercessor or mediator between them and God. The law however serves no direct purpose in terms of salvation as no-one has ever been able to keep it perfectly except Christ and that is part of the basis by which salvation is available through Him. The issue for Christians in terms of law following their salvation is one of response to God in gratitude for what he has done, rather than seeking to adhere to it in order to win God's Grace or favor. Those issues have already been resolved.

Re: Practical understanding of Eviiiiil

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:21 pm
by identity_in_development
[quote="Canuckster1127"]
"Killing" in terms of destroying life, I'd not completely agree with. The admonition in the 10 commandments carries the idea of murder, in terms of taking a life without the benefit of law and justice, in the sense of a vendetta or with malice.[/quote]

- - - -

So by the Levitical law and Ten Commands, when God gives Moses the instructions of "Thou shalt not kill," that is actually interpreted as, "Thou shalt not kill unless thou doest it in the name of justice, self-defense, or war. Thou shalt be culturally aware and enforce what I dost say only in abortion, stem cell research, and wence a person doth kill with malice on thy mind. " (Taken from current Christian positions). :shock: (Someone PLEASE say that "this isn't an accurate portrayal". Please.)

That's a rich example of hermaneutics and a complaint I have about fundamentalist Christians (those who beleive that the Bible is the inerrent word of God), where commonly their Biblical interpretations stress allegorical readings, frequently at the expense of the texts' literal meaning, while they read other bits of the Bible as literal at the expense of a potentially meaningful allegory. Why? Maybe to derive deeper meaning from the text.... maybe for the purpose of deriving an applicable lesson and teaching of morality.

Thus enters the hermeneutic circle! (Yay, my favorite!) Friedrich Schleiermacher, in his works on philosophy and theology, stressed the importance of the interpreter in the process of interpretation as well as the importance of the interpreter actually understanding the text as a necessary stage to interpreting it. Understanding, for Schleiermacher, does not simply come from reading the text, but involves knowledge of the historical context of the text and the psychology of the author -- Which describes the process of understanding a text hermeneutically ("Friedrich").

The Hermeneutic circle refers to the idea that one's understanding of the text as a whole is established by reference to the individual parts and one's understanding of each individual part by reference to the whole. Neither the whole text nor any individual part can be understood without reference to one another, and hence, it is a circle. However, this circular character of interpretation does not make it impossible to interpret a text, rather, it stresses that the meaning of text must be found within its cultural, historical, and literary context ("Hermeneutic Circle").

So here also is where I question the constant contradictions within the interpretations of the Bible - a more correct position as a fundamentalist, it seems to me, in order to avoid contradictions, should be to litterally not support any kind of killing. But since that is a maladaptive position to hold in this society (e.g., via war not being supported), the church has picked a stance, though inconsistant, and stuck with it blindly. I also feel it necessary to bring to mind how the churches mindset of "killing for the sake of justice" has been pretty bad for the world in the past 1000 years. But I do forget sometimes that Protestants have disconnected themselves from this past by blaming everything on the Catholics - my-oh-my how our minds slip. :wink:

"Hermeneutic Circle". Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaneutics on December 2, 2006.

"Friedrich Daniel Ernst Schleiermacher". Retrieved from http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/schleiermacher/ on December 2, 2006