Evidence for God from Science

I just had a question about a passage in Genesis 1:27 which most have heard of.

"And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

This means that God created man in his own mind. It makes sense to me, that in this case, in Gods image and in Gods mind, overall, would have the same meaning.


What does it mean exactly when it says "in his own image"?

Could this mean that God created man in the image of Gods own physical characteristics?

No. The hebrew word "image" here is the same word translated elsewhere as "idol." In the same way the gold and silver idols were supposed to be the physical representation of spiritual "gods," so man is to be the physical representation of Yahweh here on earth. The point is that Man is designed to rule with God's authority of Creation. That's why the Fall is such a tremendous event, but it is also why man is redeemable, unlike any other creature.

Thank you for clearing that up for me

Jac3510 wrote:No. The hebrew word "image" here is the same word translated elsewhere as "idol." In the same way the gold and silver idols were supposed to be the physical representation of spiritual "gods," so man is to be the physical representation of Yahweh here on earth. The point is that Man is designed to rule with God's authority of Creation. That's why the Fall is such a tremendous event, but it is also why man is redeemable, unlike any other creature.

Jac, would you say that before the fall man and God, howbeit on a lesser scale, were in total accord as far as emotion, will, and intellect goes? I never quite understood the extent of this.

I would say the extent was total with exception to the fact that it was an unconfirmed situation. Man did exactly as God asked, as Man was the representative of God on earth. That is why Jesus is known as the "last Adam." When we are raised in Him, we will be like Him, and we will be confirmed in the type of relationship that Adam once had, and was meant to have.

That's may take anyway . . . hooray for biblical anthropology, lol

Jac3510 wrote:I would say the extent was total with exception to the fact that it was an unconfirmed situation. Man did exactly as God asked, as Man was the representative of God on earth. That is why Jesus is known as the "last Adam." When we are raised in Him, we will be like Him, and we will be confirmed in the type of relationship that Adam once had, and was meant to have.

That's may take anyway . . . hooray for biblical anthropology, lol

Okay I got ya. We are/were an image of God like in a mirror. A reflection of his Holiness and attributes in order for us to be His representation on earth. So, do we really have to wait to be raised with Jesus to be His image again or as new creatures in Christ who are forgiven and made righteous and sanctified... in His image now?

Jac3510 wrote:No. The hebrew word "image" here is the same word translated elsewhere as "idol."

Would you kindly provide sources for your statement?

I understand the word for idols in Hebrew is

Hebrew: Teraphim, plural, meaning: "images;" "a family idol". These were family gods (penates) worshipped by Abram's kindred (Josh. 24:14 - "put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt"). "Teraphim" are mentioned by name six times in the Bible: Judg. 17:5; 18:14, 17,18,20; Hosea 3:4. Michal put one in David's bed (1 Sam. 19:13).

What Hebew word is used in Genesis to refer to man being made in God's image? Is it tselem? If so, this word is used for images, and forms, not idols, if I'm not mistaken.

Kerux wrote:

Jac3510 wrote:No. The hebrew word "image" here is the same word translated elsewhere as "idol."

Would you kindly provide sources for your statement?

From Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, Vol. 2 (Moody Press, 1980), edited by Harris, Archer, and Waltke, p. 1923:

The TWOT wrote:selem
Used sixteen times. The Aramaic is used similarly in Dan 2 and 3. The word basically refers to a representation, a likeness. Five times it is used of man as created in the image of God. Twice it is used of the golden copies of the mice and swellings that afflicted the Philistines (I Sam. 6:5, 11 and see 'opel). Mostly it refers to an idol.
There are a number of words used for idol (see under gillul and 'asab). SOme, like gillul, refer to their shape; others, like hebel, (KJV vanity) may be just a derogatory substitute (Deut 32:21; Jer 8:19 NIV). selem refers to the image as a representation of the deity. As such, images were strictly forbidden. Notice, not all sculpture was forbidden (cf. the golden cherubim), only the idols.
Man was made in God's image (selem) and likeness (demut) which is then explained as his having dominion over God's creation as vice-regent. Ps 8:5-8 [H 6-9] is similar citing man's God-given glory, honor and rule. God's image obviously does not consist in man's body which was formed from earthly matter, but in his spiritual, intellectual, moral likeness to God from whom his animating breath came. The emphasis of the prohibition of idols is that they are all material created things. God is non-material, the creator (Deut 4:15-19). This spiritual aspect of man has been damaged by the fall and is daily tarnished by sin. But it was seen in perfection in Christ and will be made perfect in us when salvation is complete (Heb 2:6-15).

FFC wrote:Okay I got ya. We are/were an image of God like in a mirror. A reflection of his Holiness and attributes in order for us to be His representation on earth. So, do we really have to wait to be raised with Jesus to be His image again or as new creatures in Christ who are forgiven and made righteous and sanctified... in His image now?

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to this, FFC. I've gotten seriously bogged down the past few days . . .

Anyway, your summarization is absolutely perfect here. As for the question regarding our resurrection, a few comments are in order:

1) Fallen man is still in the image of God. That image, though, is tarnished. To use your analogy, it would be as if we were looking into a broken mirror. The short answer to your question, from this perspective, is that we have to wait until our resurrection to be the perfect representation again.

2) There is a deeper issue here that deals with the doctrine of federal headship. All men are born into the Adamic race and thus are in his image. That, however, is a broken image of God. Jesus Christ, however, was and is the perfect representation of God, and thus is the last Adam. When we are born again, we are born into Christ, and we are therefore no longer "in Adam" but rather "in Christ." Being in Christ, we have a new nature, and indeed are new creations. We are children of God through Christ, but we are still awaiting our redemption, adoption, and glorification. Thus, while we have the benefits of direct communion with God, and while we represent Him on earth to the extent that we abide in Christ (that is, living the sanctified, holy life), we do not yet fully represent Him as "vice-regents" on earth in the same since the first Adam, or Jesus today, does. Hope this helps.

God bless

Jac3510 wrote:

Kerux wrote:

Jac3510 wrote:No. The hebrew word "image" here is the same word translated elsewhere as "idol."

Would you kindly provide sources for your statement?

From Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, Vol. 2 (Moody Press, 1980), edited by Harris, Archer, and Waltke, p. 1923:

The TWOT wrote:selem
Used sixteen times. The Aramaic is used similarly in Dan 2 and 3. The word basically refers to a representation, a likeness. Five times it is used of man as created in the image of God. Twice it is used of the golden copies of the mice and swellings that afflicted the Philistines (I Sam. 6:5, 11 and see 'opel). Mostly it refers to an idol.
There are a number of words used for idol (see under gillul and 'asab). SOme, like gillul, refer to their shape; others, like hebel, (KJV vanity) may be just a derogatory substitute (Deut 32:21; Jer 8:19 NIV). selem refers to the image as a representation of the deity. As such, images were strictly forbidden. Notice, not all sculpture was forbidden (cf. the golden cherubim), only the idols.
Man was made in God's image (selem) and likeness (demut) which is then explained as his having dominion over God's creation as vice-regent. Ps 8:5-8 [H 6-9] is similar citing man's God-given glory, honor and rule. God's image obviously does not consist in man's body which was formed from earthly matter, but in his spiritual, intellectual, moral likeness to God from whom his animating breath came. The emphasis of the prohibition of idols is that they are all material created things. God is non-material, the creator (Deut 4:15-19). This spiritual aspect of man has been damaged by the fall and is daily tarnished by sin. But it was seen in perfection in Christ and will be made perfect in us when salvation is complete (Heb 2:6-15).

FFC wrote:Okay I got ya. We are/were an image of God like in a mirror. A reflection of his Holiness and attributes in order for us to be His representation on earth. So, do we really have to wait to be raised with Jesus to be His image again or as new creatures in Christ who are forgiven and made righteous and sanctified... in His image now?

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to this, FFC. I've gotten seriously bogged down the past few days . . .

Anyway, your summarization is absolutely perfect here. As for the question regarding our resurrection, a few comments are in order:

1) Fallen man is still in the image of God. That image, though, is tarnished. To use your analogy, it would be as if we were looking into a broken mirror. The short answer to your question, from this perspective, is that we have to wait until our resurrection to be the perfect representation again.

2) There is a deeper issue here that deals with the doctrine of federal headship. All men are born into the Adamic race and thus are in his image. That, however, is a broken image of God. Jesus Christ, however, was and is the perfect representation of God, and thus is the last Adam. When we are born again, we are born into Christ, and we are therefore no longer "in Adam" but rather "in Christ." Being in Christ, we have a new nature, and indeed are new creations. We are children of God through Christ, but we are still awaiting our redemption, adoption, and glorification. Thus, while we have the benefits of direct communion with God, and while we represent Him on earth to the extent that we abide in Christ (that is, living the sanctified, holy life), we do not yet fully represent Him as "vice-regents" on earth in the same since the first Adam, or Jesus today, does. Hope this helps.

God bless

Yes it does, Jac, thank you.

jac wrote:We are children of God through Christ, but we are still awaiting our redemption, adoption, and glorification.

Actually, we have already been redeemed, (1) and adopted, (2) and are only awaiting the glorification of our bodies.

1. Christ redeemed [past tense] us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

"He redeemed [past tense] us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit."

"For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed [past tense] from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers,"

2. 14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received [past tense] the Spirit of sonship (ie. adoption KJV). And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

NAS: For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received [past tense] a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"

so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

We do, however await the redemption of our bodies:

Romans 8:23 refers to the adoption of our physical bodies.

NIV:
23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, (as adopted sons) groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

ASV: And not only so, but ourselves also, who have the first-fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for [our] adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.

Kerux wrote:

jac wrote:We are children of God through Christ, but we are still awaiting our redemption, adoption, and glorification.

Actually, we have already been redeemed, (1) and adopted, (2) and are only awaiting the glorification of our bodies.

1. Christ redeemed [past tense] us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

"He redeemed [past tense] us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit."

"For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed [past tense] from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers,"

2. 14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received [past tense] the Spirit of sonship (ie. adoption KJV). And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

NAS: For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received [past tense] a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"

so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

We do, however await the redemption of our bodies:

Romans 8:23 refers to the adoption of our physical bodies.

NIV:
23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, (as adopted sons) groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

ASV: And not only so, but ourselves also, who have the first-fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for [our] adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.

That is not always clear.

It is evident that there is an immediate sense in which we pass from death to life spiritually and this is generally known as Justification by most Christian traditions. There is also a sense in which our soul begins a process of changing into the image of Christ by the continual progressive work of the Holy Spirit and our own discipleship submitteing to that work of this Spirit to which we add our efforts in terms of odedience and self-discipline. This is generally known as Sanctification and there are varying understandings of it in terms of crisis points or progression. Often confusion arises too with justification. My position, which I can elaborate on more if needed is that there are both crisis elements as well as an overall progression that takes place and we do not reach practical perfection in this life.

Perfection comes with glorification which is the final redemtption after death or possibly after rapture should we be part of the generation that sees Christ's physical return. At that time the sin nature will be eliminated and to full inheritence realized in terms of what God has already declared we positionally have.

That is not always clear.

What is not always clear?

The fact is, as God has clearly pointed out in the various Scriptures I posted, that we are already redeemed and adopted as sons, and only wait the redemption of our bodies. Maybe it is not yet clear to you.

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free."

Kerux wrote:

That is not always clear.

What is not always clear?

The fact is, as God has clearly pointed out in the various Scriptures I posted, that we are already redeemed and adopted as sons, and only wait the redemption of our bodies. Maybe it is not yet clear to you.

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free."

Hasty words posted up and maybe I wasn't clear.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you.

I'm simply noting that there are distinctions between Justification positionally and Sanctification in terms of a process..

I agree glorification is yet to happen.

Are you suggesting that anyone has achieved perfection in terms of a practical Christian Walk and is fully sanctified here and now?

No. We have yet to discuss santification.

Neither were we discussing justification.

I thought we were discussing redemption, adoption and glorification.

Kerux wrote:No. We have yet to discuss santification.

Neither were we discussing justification.

I thought we were discussing redemption, adoption and glorification.

You're suggesting redemption and adoption are not included in Justification?

Further, if your going to leap from there to glorification, it seems sanctification should fall somewhere in there, doesn't it.