Evidence for God from Science

Since Mary was espoused to Joseph, which, at that time, was as good as being married, did God sin in making another man's wife pregnant?

Err, no... The law strictly forbids "sexual" relationships between men and women in various forms accept in marriage Lev. 18:6-29. Since God is a spirit (John 4:24) it is impossible for him to have sexual relationships between the sexes... God merely created seed inside the woman (Mary) to get her pregnant..

Actually this myth that God is a male is not scripturally sound either... God made men and women after his own image, (Gen 1:27). Therefore God has male and FEMALE attributes, but is not physically one or the other...

G -

That wasn't the question.

Did God sin in getting Mary pregnant?

And God is male that is why He is referred to as Father. Never called a female Father even once in my life.

Image refers to emotional attributes or characteristics, not physical.

Kerux wrote:Since Mary was espoused to Joseph, which, at that time, was as good as being married, did God sin in making another man's wife pregnant?

No, God can do whatever He wants to do. He established law and is not under it, but in fact is above it. God stands on his own name.

Secondly, God is ultimately the creator of every living creature regardless of whether it is through the seed of a man or a direct miraculous conception.

Thirdly, God can not sin.

That's how I see it anyway.

I'm only asking because I was asked recently and wanted to see how other Christians would respond to the same question.

I never thought about it before.

Did God sin in getting Mary pregnant?

Nope.. The law forbids sexual relationships (outside of marriage), and not condemning the children themselves (or the by product of that act).. Since God doesn't possess sexual organs, he can't have sex and therefore isn't doing anything immoral (sinful) here. Please read on...

And God is male that is why He is referred to as Father. Never called a female Father even once in my life.

Image refers to emotional attributes or characteristics, not physical.

Nope.. Again God again has male and female attributes.. (Gen:. 1:27). He is known in the male (that's true..), but this doesn't mean he doesn't possess female qualities as well. Example, God is called a mother hen in Matt 23:37.. Isaiah 42:14 has God saying, “I cry out like a travailing woman,” and In Isaiah 66:13, God promised: “As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you.” God is simply spirit possessing both male and female attributes... He is more known in his male attributes, but is not physically either male or female for that matter.

I'll quote Rich Deem here:

"Does God have male sexual organs? Surprisingly, the Bible does address this question indirectly, through a number of different statements about the nature of God and what He is like. Jesus said that God is "spirit."8 Although not defined extensively in the Bible, a spirit is an entity that has no physical body. After His resurrection, Jesus told His disciples that He had returned in bodily form, saying, "a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."9 If God is a spirit as the Bible says, and a spirit has no flesh or bones, then God cannot be male in physical form. God is not male, since He is not a physical, but a spiritual, being."

It's all here:

http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/male.html

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Gman wrote:

Nope.. Again God again has male and female attributes.. (Gen:. 1:27). He is known in the male (that's true..), but this doesn't mean he doesn't possess female qualities as well. Example, God is called a mother hen in Matt 23:37.. Isaiah 42:14 has God saying, “I cry out like a travailing woman,” and In Isaiah 66:13, God promised: “As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you.” God is simply spirit possessing both male and female attributes... He is more known in his male attributes, but is not physically either male or female for that matter.

Just because God's care for his Creation is compared (through the use of similies) to that of a mother hen to its chicks, doesn't mean God is a female personage.
Dito a mother's comfort.

God possesses emotional/spiritual attributes that are possessed by both males and females. Some of those attributes are best represented by characteristics of a female, ie. the care of a mother hen for it's children, but doesn't necessarily indicate both [equa]l female/male personage.

Are those the two best Scriptures you can find to support the idea that God has both female and male characteristics? You'll have to do better than that to overcome all the references to God being a Father.

"If you have seen me you have seen the Father." Not the Mother.

"Our Father who is in heaven...." Not our Mother.

"I and the Father are one."

"I go to my Father and your Father."

"....that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven."

"...that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous." Not She.

Come up with a verse that says that God is a Mother and I might start to be persuaded.

As far as quoting Rich Deem, what Mr. Deem thinks is in no way on equal footing with Scripture.

Gman wrote:Actually this myth that God is a male is not scripturally sound either... God made men and women after his own image, (Gen 1:27). Therefore God has male and FEMALE attributes, but is not physically one or the other...

I think you're confusing God creating male and female and giving them His emotional attributes ie love, hate, compassion, mercy, etc. with God being both male and female.

God is a Father, not a Mother.

The Lord is my Shepherd, not my Shepherdess.

The Prince of peace, not Princess.

The Everlasting Father, not Everlasting Mother.

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Are those the two best Scriptures you can find to support the idea that God has both female and male characteristics? You'll have to do better than that to overcome all the references to God being a Father.

Two? You mean four... 1) Gen. 1:27, 2) Matt 23:37 3) Isaiah 42:14 4) Isaiah 66:13.. Hey look, those darn things keep mutiplying... 5) 1 Corinthians 11:11-12 6) Genesis 5:1-2 7) Genesis 2:21-24.. 8 ) Philippians 2:4-11...

God possesses emotional/spiritual attributes that are possessed by both males and females. Some of those attributes are best represented by characteristics of a female, ie. the care of a mother hen for it's children, but doesn't necessarily indicate both [equa]l female/male personage.

So what is your interpretation of Genesis 1:27? What is really God's image? Is it 90/10, 80/20, 70/30 male/female? Why didn't he say he just created man in his image? You seem to think you have this one solved.

I think you're confusing God creating male and female and giving them His emotional attributes ie love, hate, compassion, mercy, etc. with God being both male and female.

I think you are confused about the spirit of God... Do you really read scripture? Have you accepted Christ as your personal savior in your heart yet?

God is a Father, not a Mother.

The Lord is my Shepherd, not my Shepherdess.

The Prince of peace, not Princess.

The Everlasting Father, not Everlasting Mother.

As I have stated before, God is mainly known in the authoritative male characteristic throughout the Bible after the curse that man placed on himself... Who is to say that these verses above are not addressing him in the male personality only...? Where is your scriptural proof of God's image outside of Genesis 1:27 or 5:1-2?

Evolution 1:2

Hope this helps..

G -

I must have hit a nerve, as you've resorted to questioning my salvation because I question your interpretation of Scripture.

"If you have seen me, you have seen the Mother."

"I and the Mother are one."

"Our Mother who art in heaven...."

"In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Mother in heaven."

"43 "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Mother in heaven. She causes her sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. "

"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Mother is perfect."

"But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Mother, who is unseen. Then your Mother, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

"Do not be like them, for your Mother knows what you need before you ask her."

"Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Mother feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?"

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Mother who is in heaven."

"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Mother in heaven."

Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Mother."

"At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Mother, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children."

"Yes, Mother, for this was your good pleasure."

"All things have been committed to me by my Mother. No one knows the Son except the Mother, and no one knows the Mother except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."

"Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Mother. He who has ears, let him hear."

He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Mother has not planted will be pulled up by the roots."

Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Mother in heaven."

"See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Mother in heaven.

In the same way your Mother in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost."

Need more?

I already answered yours... Can't answer my questions huh?

Evolution 1:3. I'm two up on you now..

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Kerux wrote:Since Mary was espoused to Joseph, which, at that time, was as good as being married, did God sin in making another man's wife pregnant?

Welcome Kerux.

No God did not Sin.

God made Mary with Child by the Holy Spirit.

Anthropomorphizing God makes assumptions that are circular and creates absurdities such as this attempt. Mary, as are we all, is a created being, created by God. God's plan to utilize her in the manner included her consent, and God's communicating to Joseph a confirmation of this plan.

Now, you'll need to establish that God is a human and subject to human law in this regard to support your assertion.

Go right ahead if you are so inclined.

Welcome to our board.

Please make sure you check the discussion guidelines at the top and abide by them. Feel free to pm me or any of the other moderators if you have questions or need clarification.

Bart

Many of you keep missing the point.

The [unsaved] people asking me this question seem to get it.

I understand that God did not have sex with Mary.

The issue is God got a betrothed woman pregnant. Is someone else getting essentially a married woman pregnant a sin?

If not, why not?

It's not okay to have sex but is it okay to get another man's wife pregnant?

Why didn't God choose a single woman instead of Mary, who was engaged?

[Already answered my own question, almost before I finished writing the question] at least in part. With Mary, who was engaged to Joseph, the baby, in this case Jesus Christ, would have a human father to take care of him. And Mary would not be getting pregnant out of wedlock, so to speak.

God's plan to utilize her in the manner included her consent...

It did?

Now, you'll need to establish that God is a human and subject to human law in this regard to support your assertion.

Why? God can break His laws?

What assertion? I haven't made one yet. I'm just asking a question that has been asked of me.

Kerux,

Your explanation sounds reasonable.

However, as it does not in itself draw from the text and God did not choose to share his thinking in this regard, all you are offering is conjecture. That said, your points seem reasonable to me.

In terms of Mary's assent, it is subtle, but when the angel appeared to Mary before the incarnation she ends with agreement as shown in this passage.

Her consent was not asked per se, and that wasn't my point. The point is that when she was told in advance of God's design, she agreed and consented.

Luke 1

26 Now in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin's name was Mary.

28 Having come in, the angel said to her, "Rejoice, you highly favored one! The Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women!"

29 But when she saw him, she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered what kind of salutation this might be.

30 The angel said to her, "Don't be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.

31 Behold, you will conceive in your womb, and bring forth a son, and will call his name'Jesus.'

32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father, David,

33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever. There will be no end to his Kingdom."

34 Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, seeing I am a virgin?"

35 The angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore also the holy one who is born from you will be called the Son of God.

36 Behold, Elizabeth, your relative, also has conceived a son in her old age; and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren.

37 For everything spoken by God is possible."

38 Mary said, "Behold, the handmaid of the Lord; be it to me according to your word." The angel departed from her.

Hi Kerux,

Much much clearer now... Hmmm, I actually don't really know. No points for me here. Ok Bart, here is where your pastoral experience kicks in.

All is cool here on my side...

G -