Birdie wrote:Canuckster1127 wrote:
No, just because something is logical doesn't make it more likely to be true. The only thing that matters in this regard is the truth of the premises upon which the logic rests. It isn't a matter of odds or statistics. It simply is or isn't true. That's it.
So in other words, no one exaggerated anything in the Bible, or the Old Testament stories, and it is what it says. Or you just saying that if any of the human writers tried to exaggerated the truth the story probably wouldn't go though editing (God)
.
No. There are exagerations or hyperbole in some portions of scripture where it is used as a literary device to make a particularly strong point. The standard example for this would be in the Sermon of the Mount in Matt 5:29-30 where Christ makes the statement:
29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it away from you. For it is more profitable for you that one of your members should perish, than for your whole body to be cast into Gehenna.
30 If your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off, and throw it away from you. For it is more profitable for you that one of your members should perish, than for your whole body to be cast into Gehenna.
Christ here is using exageration or hyperbole to make a very strong statement that needs to be examined in the context of the entire passage. There are those through Church History who have taken this literally and engaged in self-mutilation based upon their applying a "literal" hermeneutic. "Literal" does not always mean taking the simplest reading of a passage and accepting that as the meaning of the text. Especially when you are reading that passage in English and bringing to the reading of that text your own culture, experience and presuppositions.
Now, often the simplest rendering of the text IS indeed the meaning and the translators have done a good job. The point is, that care needs to be exercised to examine Scripture thoroughly, carefully and thoughtfully to take into consideration the original language, the culture of the original audience and such unique things as idioms and colloquialisms.
So back to your comments, the use of exageration is not a common literary device in the Old Testament when it comes to Historical writings. The use of metaphores is perhaps common where an eyewitness described what he is seeing and describes it in terms of what he knows and is familiar with, like Moses describing the burning bush. THat is what it looked like to him and how he could best describe it, but it would be reading in the text to say it was a real burning bush in the sense that any of us would look at it.
Obviously poetry, such as in Psalms, is a different form of writing and you would need to take into consideration the difference in form and would approach understanding passages there a little differently than you would the history of Chronicles, for example.
The concept of plenary inspiration does include recognition that God did not supress the personality, experience and writing style of the writer of Scripture. It does recognize as well, the inspiration of Scripture by the Holy Spirit which did in fact keep it from error in the original documents.
We don't have those documents so there are some textual issues that have arisen and require careful study and examination in order to determine what the original stated. Thankfully, in most instances these are fairly easy to examine and there is consensus among many, even from different points of view, as to what that original was.
Now Birdie, I've just given you a pretty thorough and I hope thoughtful answer.
If you are here to interact as an honest, open minded seeker, then I would appreciate the same from you.
Frankly, it's becoming evident to me in examining your interaction, that you are here moreso, to simply argue, present your doubts and mock what you've already rejected.
I hope I'm wrong. You'll have to show me otherwise however.
Please take a look at the discussion guidelines above. If you're not here to interact with some level of open-mindedness and respect, then there are other boards that provide for debate of the nature you are apparently looking to find. This is a Christian Apologetics site committed to being a place for Christians to discuss apologetics, reconciliation with scientific issues, and also for honest seekers to interact with questions they may have.
I'm hearing your questions. I'm not seeing a lot of interaction that leads me to believe that is your purpose here, but as I've said, you can show me otherwise. Mocking and ridicule of Scripture doesn't impress me all that much as honest seeking.
), but in the Old Testament everything seems scattered. It's like all of the older prophets could be Jesus if they claimed it when they're making the sea split apart or being taken up into the heavens in a fiery chariot. So is there any facts to make the Old Testament seem more logical?
Well actually I think some did, lol... 