Calvinism and Arminianism

[Canuckster1127]

First, I'm not looking to start a debate on this thread. There are some excellent discussions in other threads going into depth.

It occured to me in reading those, that many here may not fully grasp what the conversation is all about and so, this thread is presented with the express purpose of helping those who may not have the background or understanding to know what all the "fuss" is about.

Perhaps, moving forward, when these type of discussions go on (and they will ....) a link here can help those viewing those discussions understand the issues better.

Here is a link to a site that contrasts the 5 points of Calvinism with the corresponding 5 points of Arminianism.
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http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atlanti ... vepoin.htm

The "Five Points" of Arminianism The "Five Points" of Calvinism

1. Free Will or Human Ability (Arminianism)

Although human nature was seriously affected by the fall, man has not been left in a state of total spiritual helplessness. God graciously enables every sinner to repent and believe, but He does not interfere with man's freedom. Each sinner possesses a free will, and his eternal destiny depends on how he uses it. Man's freedom consists of his ability to choose good over evil in spiritual matters; his will is not enslaved to his sinful nature. The sinner has the power to either cooperate with God's Spirit and be regenerated or resist God's grace and perish. The lost sinner needs the Spirit's assistance, but he does not have to be regenerated by the Spirit before he can believe, for faith is man's act and precedes the new birth. Faith is the sinner's gift to God; it is man's contribution to salvation.

1. Total Inability or Total Depravity (Calvinism)

Because of the fall, man is unable of himself to savingly believe the gospel. The sinner is dead, blind, and deaf to the things of God; his heart is deceitful and desperately corrupt. His will is not free, it is in bondage to his evil nature, therefore, he will not--indeed he cannot--choose good over evil in the spiritual realm. Consequently, it takes much more than the Spirit's assistance to bring a sinner to Christ--it takes regeneration by which the Spirit makes the sinner alive and gives him a new nature. Faith is not something man contributes to salvation but is itself a part of God's gift of salvation--it is God's gift to the sinner, not the sinner's gift to God.

2. Conditional Election (Arminianism)

God's choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world was based upon His foreseeing that they would respond to His call. He selected only those whom He knew would of themselves freely believe the gospel. Election therefore was determined by or conditioned upon what man would do. The faith which God foresaw and upon which He based His choice was not given to the sinner by God (it was not created by the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit) but resulted solely from man's will. It was left entirely up to man as to who would believe and therefore as to who would be elected unto salvation. God chose those whom He knew would, of their own free will, choose Christ. Thus the sinner's choice of Christ, not God's choice of the sinner, is the ultimate cause of salvation.

2. Unconditional Election (Calvinism)

God's choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world rested solely in His own sovereign will. His choice of particular sinners was not based on any foreseen response or obedience on their part, such as faith, repentance, etc. On the contrary, God gives faith and repentance to each individual whom He selected. These acts are the result, not the cause of God's choice. Election therefore was not determined by or conditioned upon any virtuous quality or act foreseen in man. Those whom God sovereignly elected He brings through the power of the Spirit to a willing acceptance of Christ. Thus God's choice of the sinner, not the sinner's choice of Christ, is the ultimate cause of salvation.

3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement (Arminianism)

Christ's redeeming work made it possible for everyone to be saved but did not actually secure the salvation of anyone. Although Christ died for all men and for every man, only those who believe on Him are saved. His death enabled God to pardon sinners on the condition that they believe, but it did not actually put away anyone's sins. Christ's redemption becomes effective only if man chooses to accept it.

3. Limited Atonement or Particular Redemption (Calvinism)

Christ's redeeming work was intended to save the elect only and actually secured salvation for them. His death was a substitutionary endurance of the penalty of sin in the place of certain specified sinners. In addition to putting away the sins of His people, Christ's redemption secured everything necessary for their salvation, including faith which unites them to Him. The gift of faith is infallibly applied by the Spirit to all for whom Christ died, therefore guaranteeing their salvation.

4. The Holy Spirit Can be Effectually Resisted (Arminianism)

The Spirit calls inwardly all those who are called outwardly by the gospel invitation; He does all that He can to bring every sinner to salvation. But inasmuch as man is free, he can successfully resist the Spirit's call. The Spirit cannot regenerate the sinner until he believes; faith (which is man's contribution) precedes and makes possible the new birth. Thus, man's free will limits the Spirit in the application of Christ's saving work. The Holy Spirit can only draw to Christ those who allow Him to have His way with them. Until the sinner responds, the Spirit cannot give life. God's grace, therefore, is not invincible; it can be, and often is, resisted and thwarted by man.

4. Irresistible Grace or The Efficacious Call of the Spirit (Calvinism)

In addition to the outward general call to salvation which is made to everyone who hears the gospel, the Holy Spirit extends to the elect a special inward call that inevitably brings them to salvation. The external call (which is made to all without distinction) can be, and often is, rejected; whereas the internal call (which is made only to the elect) cannot be rejected; it always results in conversion. By means of this special call the Spirit irresistibly draws sinners to Christ. He is not limited in His work of applying salvation by man's will, nor is He dependent upon man's cooperation for success. The Spirit graciously causes the elect sinner to cooperate, to believe, to repent, to come freely and willingly to Christ. God's grace, therefore, is invincible; it never fails to result in the salvation of those to whom it is extended.

5. Falling from Grace (Arminianism)

Those who believe and are truly saved can lose their salvation by failing to keep up their faith, etc.

All Arminians have not been agreed on this point; some have held that believers are eternally secure in Christ--that once a sinner is regenerated, he can never be lost.

5. Perseverance of the Saints (Calvinism)

All who are chosen by God, redeemed by Christ, and given faith by the Spirit are eternally saved. They are kept in faith by the power of Almighty God and thus persevere to the end
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This particular list is obviously not exhaustive; nor do all Calvinists or Arminians hold absolutely to these points in every instance. It is a good general reference however and based in history. These are the points contested in Holland from about 1610 - 1620 in what came to be known as the Synod of Dort. That synod affirmed Calvinism. That in and of itself doesn't prove anything, as the final arbiter is Scripture.

Anyway, hope this helps. As others find material that contrasts and helps to explain the two systems, in a manner that people unfamiliar with the debate can use to increase their understanding of these issues, I'd encourage you to post those resources here.

Debate lines arguing the merits of the two will be moved to other threads, to help keep this as an informational resource.

Bart

[bizzt]

Thanks Bart!

[Oriental]

It's good job. So many school of thoughts have emerged around the belief but interestingly, they are not yet looked at as heresy; I know "heresy" a term condemning some stances on the belief deadly serious. Are they heresy?


Oriental.

[Canuckster1127]

It's good job. So many school of thoughts have emerged around the belief but interestingly, they are not yet looked at as heresy; I know "heresy" a term condemning some stances on the belief deadly serious. Are they heresy?


Oriental.

No. I don't believe that disagreement in this area extends to heresy, although some may disagree and there are some extreme positions at both ends of the spectrum.

These are positions drawn from the Scriptures in which there is an attempt to systematize or make standard to the satisfaction of a logical, consistent observer, the nature of God and the mechanics of how salvation is accomplished..

I could say more, but in keeping with my own request at the beginning of this post, the intent here is information not debate. There are several threads active which address this very in depth with rich discussion and scriptural analysis on both ends of the spectrum for that.

[Canuckster1127]

Article from the main boad in this area.

http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/p ... ation.html

Predestination vs. Free Will - Is It One or the Other?
by Rich Deem

Introduction

One of the major controversies among Christians is the extent of predestination that God has ordained. At the extremes are those who claim that God uses only one to the exclusion of the other. Either extreme is wrong, since the Bible clearly indicates that both are in operation.
Predestination

In order to fulfill His prophecies, God must predestine history to a certain degree. The Bible clearly indicates that God predestined redemptive history, specifically, the coming of the Messiah. Jesus clearly indicated that His coming was planned, including His death:

* But He said to them, "I must preach the kingdom of God to the other cities also, for I was sent for this purpose." (Luke 4:43)
* "Now My soul has become troubled; and what shall I say, 'Father, save Me from this hour'? But for this purpose I came to this hour. (John 12:27)

Redemptive history

Other verses indicate that the crucifixion of Jesus Christ was "predetermined" and "foreknown" by God1 and fulfilled part of God's eternal purpose.2

The Bible indicates that God's role in redemptive history extends beyond the Messiah to God's role in the redemption of Israel. Isaiah and Jeremiah claim that God used foreign rulers to alter history and free the Jews from Babylonian captivity:

* Declaring the end from the beginning And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, 'My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure'; Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man of My purpose from a far country. Truly I have spoken; truly I will bring it to pass. I have planned it, surely I will do it. (Isaiah 46:10-11)
* Sharpen the arrows, fill the quivers! The LORD has aroused the spirit of the kings of the Medes, Because His purpose is against Babylon to destroy it; For it is the vengeance of the LORD, vengeance for His temple. (Jeremiah 51:11)

People chosen by God for salvation

The Bible indicates that certain people are chosen by God for His purposes. Examples include King David,3 the Levites as the priests of God,4 Abraham,5 and the tribe of Judah.6

The New Testament says that God has elected or chosen people for salvation. Jesus used the Greek word eklektos7 to refer to those who were chosen by God during the end times.8 Jesus indicated that He chose the apostles for God's work and that it was not their own choice.9

Paul also uses the term "elect" to describe those who follow Jesus Christ.10 Paul tells us that we were chosen "before the foundation of the world,"11 which is reaffirmed by John in the book of Revelation.12 Paul also tells us that we were predestined by God to follow Jesus Christ.13 In addition, good works were prepared for us "that we might walk in them."14 Jesus Himself indicated that He had chosen Paul as a minister of the gospel.15 James indicates that God has chosen the poor people of the world for salvation.16
Evil people chosen to fulfill God's purposes

Some Christians claim that God predestines people for hell. This concept is never stated directly, although the Bible indicates that God does use evil people to accomplish His purposes.17 Paul indicates in the book of Romans that evil Pharaoh was "raised up" to demonstrate God's power.18 Paul goes on to say that God chose Jacob over his brother Esau,19 and that He chooses to have mercy on some people over others.20 John says that God will give the kingdom of Israel to the beast to fulfill His word.21

Jesus indicated that He chose the apostles, including the one who would betray Him.22 Even Judas, as a worker of evil, was fulfilling part of the redemptive purpose of God. Luke, in the book of Acts indicates that evil Herod and Pontius Pilate, who condemned Jesus, were serving God's purposes.23

Presumably, evil people who are predestined to serve the purposes of God through their evil will eventually go to hell. However, they still possessed free will and would have done evil under any circumstances. So, the Bible indicates that God placed them in history to fulfill His purposes, knowing that they would do evil. God did not cause them to do evil, since God is not the author of evil. James says not to blame God for temptation:

Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. (James 1:13)

Free will

There are many verses that specifically state that people have free will to execute their own choices. In the book of Deuteronomy, God Himself tells the people to choose to follow Him to receive His blessings:

"I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants, (Deuteronomy 30:19)

Joshua tells the people to choose to serve God or the idols of their neighbors.

"And if it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." (Joshua 24:15)

Many other Old Testament verses tell us to choose to follow the Lord.24 Obviously, choice is not possible if everything is predestined.

Besides the verses that tells us directly to make choices, there are hundreds of verses that tell us how we are to live. Obviously, following this advice requires free will and the ability to choose. So, the Bible indicates pretty clearly that we are to make choices. If everything is predestined, then choice is not possible.
Christ died for some?

Some in the radical predestination camp claim that Jesus Christ died only for the elect. However, the Bible teaches quite clearly that Jesus Christ died for all people and wants all people to come to repentance:

* "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. (John 3:16)
* "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself." (John 12:32)
* For the death that He died, He died to sin, once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. (Romans 6:10)
* For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive. (1 Corinthians 15:22)
* For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; and He died for all, that they who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf. (2 Corinthians 5:15)
* For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. (1 Timothy 4:10)
* For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, (Titus 2:11)
* For it was fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens; who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins, and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. (Hebrews 7:26-27)
* But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. (Hebrews 9:11-12)
* By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. (Hebrews 10:10)
* The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)
* For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, in order that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; (1 Peter 3:18)

Conclusion

I have tried to present a balanced examination of the issues regarding free will and predestination. It is obvious that the Bible teaches both concepts. Ultimately, I believe that God directs history. However, I do not believe that He micro-manages history. In other words, I think God places people in history so that His will is accomplished. This includes putting His followers, in addition to those who oppose Him, at strategic points in history. The Bible encourages us to use our free will to choose good over evil.

...as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." (Joshua 24:15)

[Canuckster1127]

Article from Main Board in this area.

http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/forgiveness.html

Does God Offer Forgiveness of Sin to All People or Just Believers
by Rich Deem
Introduction

Christian thought on the role of free will and predestination often permeates discussions of Christian theology. One camp (Arminianism) says that people have complete free will, whereas the other (Calvinism) says that God predestines everything. The Bible actually supports both positions, so complete exclusion of either free will or predestination is a non-scriptural position. God's role in salvation is also debated. Some say that God chooses whether or not people are even offered salvation. This page examines the true scope of God's offer of salvation, citing verses not usually found in Cavinists' Bibles.1
Choose!

In the Old Testament, God told His people to choose whether or not they would follow Him. The reward for such choice was life and blessings.2 In the New Testament, the choice is whether or not to seek Jesus, God's Messiah.3 The choice was based upon faith - both in the Old Testament4 and New Testament,5 since it is impossible to please God without faith.6
Whoever believes

The offer of salvation through faith is given to all who believe. This belief results in eternal salvation:

* "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. (John 3:16)
* "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." (John 6:40)

God's desire is for all to be saved:

* This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:3-4)
* The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)

The scriptures specifically state that God is the Savior of all:

* For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. (1 Timothy 4:10)
* For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, (Titus 2:11)

The scriptures also indicate that Jesus' act of redemption is sufficient to justify all:

* "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself." (John 12:32)
* So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. (Romans 5:18)
* For the death that He died, He died to sin, once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. (Romans 6:10)
* For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive. (1 Corinthians 15:22)
* For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; and He died for all, that they who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf. (2 Corinthians 5:15)
* For it was fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens; who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins, and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. (Hebrews 7:26-27)
* But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. (Hebrews 9:11-12)
* By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. (Hebrews 10:10)
* For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, in order that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; (1 Peter 3:18)

Conclusion

God does predestine redemptive history so that His will is accomplished. He uses both the righteous and unrighteous to sanctify His children. Although God's desire is for all to be saved, most choose to reject God's love and to live solely for themselves. However, God brings His offer of salvation to all people and calls us, His followers, to proclaim this offer to all, so that they may experience God's love and peace for themselves. May we be faithful to our calling to love others as we have been loved.

[Canuckster1127]

Another Article in this area from our main board.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/destined.html

Why Would God Create a Person Who Would be Destined for Hell?
by Rich Deem
Introduction

Christianity claims that God knows everything. The theological term is "omniscience." There are some implications of this doctrine that non-believers find troubling or even unacceptable to the concept of a loving God. If God knows everything, then He knows that some people whom He creates will end up in hell. Why would God create people who are destined for hell? It turns out that there are many unstated assumptions in this question, which are not valid for Christianity. A related question, "Why wouldn't God just create everyone to enjoy the glory of heaven?" will also be answered.
Destined for hell ≠ Predestined for hell

The first, and most prevalent, incorrect assumption is that a person who is destined for hell has been predestined for hell by God. This is false. People choose to go to hell rather than submit their lives to God. You have absolute free will within the confines of your personal ability. You can prove this to yourself. Determine two possible courses of action. They don't have to be big decisions, just any two possible actions. Assign each action to either "heads" or "tails." Flip the coin and do what whatever course chance decided. You can do this as many times as needed to determine that you do, indeed, have free will. Occasionally, do the opposite of what the coins tell you. Has God prevented you from doing anything? No!
God alone created you

The second incorrect assumption is that God alone has created you. You are the product of choices made by your parents. Therefore, God has not predestined you to be born at all. How can you blame Him for creating you to send you to hell?
People destined for hell have no earthly purpose

The third incorrect assumption is that a person destined for hell has no purpose in this life. This is also false. All people living have a purpose. Some people destined for hell will save other's lives, either intentionally or unintentionally. Others destined for hell will be helped, encouraged, and witnessed to by others who are destined for heaven. Those who follow God's plan are provided opportunities to help others in their spiritual path. If all people were on the same spiritual path, there would be nobody for God's people to help. God says that all are without excuse, so He provides witnesses of his plan to give them a chance to change their minds.
Rewards and punishment

Another possible assumption is that the only purpose of this life is to choose to follow God or reject Him. This is also false. This life is used as a measure of reward and punishment. All who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior will go to heaven, but the amount of reward in heaven will be directly related to how closely one followed God's will in his life. Likewise, all those who reject Jesus Christ will go to hell and will be punished to the degree of how much evil they committed in their life. This is why God allows people to make their own choices.
Why wouldn't God just create everyone to enjoy the glory of heaven?

Skeptics might claim that God, in knowing all the choices a person would make, would not need to create all the people who would end up in hell. This question also has some underlying assumptions. The assumption is that since God knows all the answers, He would have no need of "running the experiment."
Just put the good people directly into heaven?

The assumption that God could just put the good people directly into heaven seems to be valid for God, but has some problems when applied to humans. For some reason, skeptics leave themselves out of the equation. They want God to run the thought experiment and put those souls who would make the right choice (believe in Jesus Christ) directly into heaven and not even create those who reject Him. The problem is that God would then be liable to the accusation of rewarding some people more than others, since reward is proportional to good deeds done in life. Since there was no real life, how could God hand out rewards? Should He tell people what they would have done and let them be content with that? How would those souls know anything about life, goodness, and doing the right thing if they had never lived before? God could be considered to be unjust, since His actions would not be based upon choices made by real characters. Would God just put those fake memories into their heads? If He did so, God would be creating deceptions, which contradicts His perfect character.

When people think deeply about their "perfect" plan about what God "should have done," they realize that there are logical problems. What most people would create, as god, would be robots, since they would have no choice at all. Ever try loving your computer? It is not a very satisfying relationship. So it would be with the robots that skeptics would send directly into heaven.
Conclusion

The "problems" about the loving God of Christianity posed by the skeptics rests on invalid assumptions. Based on an invalid understanding of God's foreknowledge, they seek to avoid the consequences of their free will choice by offering a "solution" that violates the character of God. Therefore, the "solution" would not be a valid solution for the God of Christianity.

[Canuckster1127]

Note, although the position of the founder of the board is reasonably clear from these three articles, that doesn't mean that articles refuting or addressing these issues are not welcome.

Those with differing views and articles helping to explain how these concerns are addressed are welcome to put them up here.

Again, let's try, in this thread to keep things to source articles so that someone seeking to understand more about the history and philosophy behind the debate can take a look and get information here and maybe better understand the other debate threads already active.

As we have a few articles on our main board, it seems appropriate to place them here for that purpose.

[Canuckster1127]

Calvin's Institutes available online for those who want to read this great and important classic.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/institutes.html

[Canuckster1127]

John Wesley's Answer to the Question, "What is an Arminian"

http://new.gbgm-umc.org/umhistory/wesley/arminian/

Strong online library of Weslyan theology with a lot of historical documents related to James Arminius.

http://wesley.nnu.edu/Arminianism/Arminius/

[Canuckster1127]

Interesting article from Christianity Today in 1992 entitled,

What Calvinism and Arminianism have in Common.

http://www.edwardfudge.com/written/article1text.html

[Canuckster1127]

Very Strong Calvinist site that equates Arminianism with Pelagianism and Semi-Pelagianism and declares it to be heresy.

http://www.apuritansmind.com/Arminianis ... ianism.htm

SImilar extreme from the Arminian Perspective labeling Calvinism as a heresy and drawing strongly in terms of Calvin's personal life to attack his doctrine.

http://www.biblelife.org/calvinism.htm

*Note: The purpose of these links are not to promote either extreme but to illustrate where camps are formed and opposition or disagreement labelled as heresy. Neither side of the argument has an exclusive claim to extremes in this regard, no matter how sincere.*

[Byblos]

A close friend sent me the following link that I think offers yet another viewpoint of both Calvinism and Arminianism's doctrine of election and addresses where each skews from biblical truth (as per the author). His take on Romans 8:29,30 caught my attention in particular. It is well worth the time to read.

Any comments, please start another thread related to the article so as to leave this thread for references only.

(PL, if you would like to offer any insight, you can do it in your response thread rather than starting a new one, up to you).

A Biblical Explanation of the Doctrine of Election.
By Cooper P. Abrams, III


God bless,

John.

[Gman]

Very interesting guys, thanks... My favorite happens to be this one..

http://www3.calvarychapel.com/cheyenne/ ... inism.html

As it states: It is imperative to remember that both Calvinism and Arminianism are systems of theology devised by godly, devout, Bible-believing men in the 1600's. Both systems are based on the Word of God, and both contain essential elements of truth. The Apostolic church knew nothing of either system, they simply believed what God had revealed. The difficulty arises when it seems that some of what God has revealed contradicts something else He revealed. How can man be absolutely free and God absolutely sovereign and directive simultaneously? How can salvation be entirely God's work, yet require the cooperation of mere men simultaneously? These are unanswerable questions ultimately. The Bible teaches both the sovereignty of God and the free will of man. It teaches what appears to be unconditional perseverance in some places and conditional perseverance in others. These things can never be intellectually reconciled because God is simply too big for us to understand. Both systems of theology emphasize one set of Scriptures while either ignoring or drastically twisting and explaining away others.

Amen to that...

[Canuckster1127]

Note,

I peeled the posts on this thread discussing issues to a new thread to keep this as a resource.

New Thread Title is Calvinism/Arminism Interaction