Evidence for God from Science

Don't know if this is the right place to post this, but...

If someone who believes in Jesus and everything that goes with that commits suicide, does that person go to hell? what if that person doesn't believe, and just wants to end it all?

T

timboo wrote:Don't know if this is the right place to post this, but...

If someone who believes in Jesus and everything that goes with that commits suicide, does that person go to hell? what if that person doesn't believe, and just wants to end it all?

T

Only God knows the answer as to whether any person is a true believer and going to heaven.

Im not aware of anything in scripture that indicates that suicide is the unpardonable sin. So, I believe that if a believer were to commit suicide, God would still save them.

Further, if the person were not a believer, then they would face an eternity apart from God.

That said, suicide is a remarkably selfish act and one that elevates one's own pain and angst, over the power of God to heal, and the care and love of other people.

I know some of this pain, as I've struggled most of my adult life with clinical depression that was compounded by cancer surgery when I was 23. I've experienced and been tempted at points in my life to where I can understand why someone would commit suicide.

That said, I've been fortunate to have enough support around me and the sense to know when to reach out to it when I begin to slip down that path.

A good passage to read on this, in the Bible, that I relate to very strongly is I Kings 19 where Elijah wrestles with what has every appearance of suicidal depression.

What has always stuck out to me is the following:

1. God does not rebuke Elijah for his depression and suicidal feelings.

2. God ministers to Elijah's needs in the area of food, rest and safety.

3. God shows Elijah more of Himself, drawing closer to Elijah in the process.

4. God provides a friend for Elijah in Elisha who also ministers to his needs in many ways.

What do I draw from this?

God has often used people who suffer great inner pain and depression. Elijah is one. David is one (read the psalms ... they are very graphic in the pain David feels.)

A good pattern to learn in coping with depression is to focus early on, in getting your life in balance, getting enough sleep, eating well and getting exercise.

God has a special place in His heart and loves those who want to know more of Him. Knowing more of Him in the sense of developing a realtionship, not just gaining information, brings peace and lessens depression. God gives us others in our lives to reach out to and minister to, and also to draw on for strnegth and friendship.

This is a starting place. Beyond this there are counsellors who are skilled and can help. I personally believe medication is appropriate at times as well, when there are physical causes and roots to depression.

You don't mention if this is a concern for you personally or for a loved one.

Either way, know that there is hope and joy to be had, even when it looks otherwise. God does care and I hope this post may help in a small way to encourage you ro give you a message of hope for others.

Blessings,

Bart

hi canuckster.

well its me. i tried to off myself 6 years ago, was very close to death but pulled through. at the time i was an atheist, and didn't expect anything to happen when i died.

since then i have got a lot closer to my sister, who is a christian. i have read some of the bible, been on an alpha course and been to church too. but i am still a sceptic, i find it very hard to believe in god.

so i don't know what will happen, i fear that when i do die it will be by suicide, because i am only 27 and i have been depressed as long as i can remember. i am not scared of death really.
what if i try to believe in god but i just can't?

timboo wrote:hi canuckster.

well its me. i tried to off myself 6 years ago, was very close to death but pulled through. at the time i was an atheist, and didn't expect anything to happen when i died.

since then i have got a lot closer to my sister, who is a christian. i have read some of the bible, been on an alpha course and been to church too. but i am still a sceptic, i find it very hard to believe in god.

so i don't know what will happen, i fear that when i do die it will be by suicide, because i am only 27 and i have been depressed as long as i can remember. i am not scared of death really.
what if i try to believe in god but i just can't?

Timboo,

I'm honored that you would trust to reveal that here and let me assure you, that while I don't know your specific situation and hurt, I have a little understanding of what it like to reach that kind of point of deep depression and desperation.

I think it's great you have a sister who loves you and is close to God. That is a great resource to have.

What did you think of what I wrote above? Are you doing the things I mentioned in terms of sleeping regularly, eating right and using the friends and support you have around you?

Something that has helped me a lot, is to realize the importance to get out of my head and looking at the world as if it revolved around me. I do some volunteer work with cancer patients that helps me to stay in focus.

Suicide may not be the unpardonable sin, but it really is a sin nonetheless.

Have you asked God to show himself to you? Church is great. But knowing God is personal. Any other friend you'd want to get closer to would require time, commitment, sacrifice and communication. It is the same with God.

How can we help you here?

Bart

This is the exact (well almost exact) reason I really started to question my faith. A great friend and mentor took his own life (yes a very selfich act, but since i feel not unlike christianity) and every christian friend I had told me that he would never be accepted into the kingdom of god. Needless to say
I could not accept that.

Regardless of my own belief, DO NOT do it. Every life is worth more than that. We must do what we can to make the most of the time we have left on the face of this earth. Nothing is that bad and please find help, not that i am the voice of reason but please email me and i will talk.

Hi again. yes i read the part of the bible you mentioned. I have been thinking that even if do accept god into my life i have done too many bad things in my life. my list of sins is quite long,

1 attempted murder (suicide)
2 theft
3 lying
4 impure thoughts about women
5 hateful thoughts

most of these recent too, apart from theft. i even stole from one of my best friends, not once but systematically over a long period of time. i feel like i need to repent. sometimes i feel like calling him up and letting him know, and repaying him in some way.

do you think god can forgive someone like me?

t

timboo wrote:Hi again. yes i read the part of the bible you mentioned. I have been thinking that even if do accept god into my life i have done too many bad things in my life. my list of sins is quite long,

1 attempted murder (suicide)
2 theft
3 lying
4 impure thoughts about women
5 hateful thoughts

most of these recent too, apart from theft. i even stole from one of my best friends, not once but systematically over a long period of time. i feel like i need to repent. sometimes i feel like calling him up and letting him know, and repaying him in some way.

do you think god can forgive someone like me?

t

Timboo,

Yes. God can forgive someone like you. I know, because he has has forgiven someone like me, and there are abundant examples of God's forgiveness in the Bible for people just like the both of us.

Paul, the apostle carried throughout his life a keen awareness for the grace of God. You might be familiar, but before Paul became a Christian, his name was Saul, and he not only pesecuted people who believed in Jesus, but he actually worked to have people put to death. When Stephen, the first Martyr recorded in Acts 7 was stoned to death we see Saul there, approving and watching the coats of the people who stoned Stephen to death.

Yet, God called Paul out, forgave him and used him mightily as an apostle and preserver of the word of God.

David in the Old Testament is a similar story. David disobeyed God and grieved Him in many ways. The height of David's sine was when he saw another man's wife, desired her and used his power as king to commit adultery with her. He then tried to cover it up, by having the man, his name was Uriah, come home on military leave so he would sleep with his wife and David's sin be covered up, as the woman was pregnant. When the man refused to do so, David had him moved into the highest part of battle so he would die. David then married the woman, Bath-Sheba.

David, when confronted with his sin, greived and mourned and repented. God forgave him but there were still consequences for his sin.

Paul, referred often to his sense of guilt and recognition of God's foregiveness for him. In I Tim 1:16 Paul referred to himself as the worst of sinners. He was very mindful of just how much God had forgiven him.

Timboo, God absolutely can forgive you. What is necessary is for you to to ask Jesus Christ into your life as your savior and to accept the gift of salvation that He has purchased on your behalf when He died upon the cross.

There may still be some consequences humanly speaking for the past decision you have made. While, God's foregiveness does not depend upon you making restitution to people you have wronged, there is good reason to go to those you have sinned against, confess and where you can to make things right. That is a very difficult thing, but it is very freeing as well.

God knows exactly what you have done, and yet he still loves you. He knows exactly what I have done and what I've thought and yet He still loves me.

Please be encouraged and hopeful. There is peace and joy for such as you and me in the cross of Christ.

Please feel free to pm or e-mail me if I can help further.

Here is a link to our main board where it outlines how you can accept Christ as your personal savior.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/gospel.html

Bart

timboo wrote:Hi again. yes i read the part of the bible you mentioned. I have been thinking that even if do accept god into my life i have done too many bad things in my life. my list of sins is quite long,

1 attempted murder (suicide)
2 theft
3 lying
4 impure thoughts about women
5 hateful thoughts

most of these recent too, apart from theft. i even stole from one of my best friends, not once but systematically over a long period of time. i feel like i need to repent. sometimes i feel like calling him up and letting him know, and repaying him in some way.

do you think god can forgive someone like me?

t

Timboo, you are more of a saint than me if this is all you have on your list... If God can forgive me, I'll bet anything he will forgive you...

You are on the right path my friend... It's people like you that make up some of the most powerful Christians...

God bless,

G -

timboo wrote:Hi again. yes i read the part of the bible you mentioned. I have been thinking that even if do accept god into my life i have done too many bad things in my life. my list of sins is quite long,

1 attempted murder (suicide)
2 theft
3 lying
4 impure thoughts about women
5 hateful thoughts

most of these recent too, apart from theft. i even stole from one of my best friends, not once but systematically over a long period of time. i feel like i need to repent. sometimes i feel like calling him up and letting him know, and repaying him in some way.

do you think god can forgive someone like me?

t

Hi Timboo,
I've thought about committing suicide too, but I didn't because I always thought in the back of my mind that things had to get better...and they did. It wasn't easy but they did.

I got help from telling my problems to psychologists and trusted friends. I also poured over God's word in search of His hope and love and deliverance from the dark thoughts. God was faithful and led me out of the darkness and gave me peace.

God will do the same for you too. Don't be afraid to trust Him. There is no sin too big for Him. Do you think there is any sin that you have ever done that He didn't know you would do beforehand? This is the whole reason Jesus died on the cross...to take all our sins upon Himself. If you can trust God and believe that He sent His son to die on the cross to take away your sins you can be a child of God. It's promised in the bible.

Do you want that, Timboo? Do you have enough faith to surrender your life to Christ so that you can have eternal life?

As for the rest of your list, I've done all those things before I gave my life to Christ and after. I'm not proud of it and I ask forgiveness every time I sin, but the point is God is faithful and extends mercy to all who come to Him in faith. I'm glad because if He didn't I don't know where I'd be.

Don't give up!

I've thought about suicide and I think it's natural for a person in maturing to struggle with it on a moral level.

Since I've become a sort of trial-based-member-christian ( ) I've found that I feel silly thinking depressed thoughts. I feel that I'm being selfish in focusing on bad things rather than good things. Thinking about God fills me with humility and love and this throws all doubt and depression out of the window.

I interpret "Do unto others as you would have them do to you" to cast away all inflation of our egos for the sake of harmony between people. If we're depressed we might be able to help someone in need and find ourselves useful rather than useless. By Christ's teachings we have to humble ourselves as best we can and help others to the best of our abilities.

Atticus Finch wrote:I've thought about suicide and I think it's natural for a person in maturing to struggle with it on a moral level.

Since I've become a sort of trial-based-member-christian ( ) I've found that I feel silly thinking depressed thoughts. I feel that I'm being selfish in focusing on bad things rather than good things. Thinking about God fills me with humility and love and this throws all doubt and depression out of the window.

I interpret "Do unto others as you would have them do to you" to cast away all inflation of our egos for the sake of harmony between people. If we're depressed we might be able to help someone in need and find ourselves useful rather than useless. By Christ's teachings we have to humble ourselves as best we can and help others to the best of our abilities.

Atticus,

There is some good insight there. There is a paradox in Christianity that Jesus clearly taught and modelled that is really a key in getting away from selfishness.

If you want to be rich, give away all you have.

If you want to find joy, sacrifice your own desires to make someone else happy.

It's a profound truth and unfortunately, not all Christians ever really get it, beyond their minds and into practice

Bart

Atticus Finch wrote: I interpret "Do unto others as you would have them do to you" to cast away all inflation of our egos for the sake of harmony between people.

A good speech. .... - "for the sake of harmony between people"

Timboo wrote:Hi again. yes i read the part of the bible you mentioned. I have been thinking that even if do accept god into my life i have done too many bad things in my life. my list of sins is quite long,

1 attempted murder (suicide)
2 theft
3 lying
4 impure thoughts about women
5 hateful thoughts

most of these recent too, apart from theft. i even stole from one of my best friends, not once but systematically over a long period of time. i feel like i need to repent. sometimes i feel like calling him up and letting him know, and repaying him in some way.

do you think god can forgive someone like me?

Timboo,

Sorry for my going straight to the jugular it occurs to me it is the old self that worries you so much to think of committing suicide. when I read the following words, here are what I think:

1 attempted murder (suicide) - you may not want to go on living on earth to evade something which is virtually torturing that you find suicide sound less agonized than keeping living onward, may you? What these "something" do we want to evade?

2 theft - we usually lack sufficient possession that drives us to steal; the real question, however, is not how many things do we possess that we find unfair we don't have enough to steal, but what desire prompts us to steal things? greed, or shame?

3 lying - there must be someone to lie against or we fear ethical accusation, or lying feeds our appetite to obtain gratifying results but virtually, what is in our hearts that drive us to lie?

4 impure thoughts about women - suppose we have a woman to have sex with (probably she's our girls or wives), does it mean we stop having impurity about women? Or else we have unusual desire for lust that goes beyond our control?

5 hateful thoughts - why should there be someones that we hate? why should there be always something that enrages us?

A down-to-earth analysis to psycho I bet we have to heed. The miserable things to me is: imagine we get all things we once desired to have, money, women, dignity, possessions... we may find ourselves, still a prey, to greedy appetite for everything, never satisfactory but continually longing for...

It is the "old self" which haunts our heart to commit suicide, in spite of the mercy that the almighty God can have on us; its true for us to trust on Him for repentance and conversion, it is essential for us to be aware what causes all these things in the first place.

Trust in God is the first thing to do, to make us aware of these, before everything else does.

Oriental