Evidence for God from Science

Hello to all,

Some of you may know that I speak to Muslims on discussion boards. I have tried to understand them and I have tried to correct their misunderstandings of Christianity.

There is a particular Muslim who I have known for 3 years now. He has read the Bible and he considers himself an expert at interpreting Scriptures. I considered him a friend, but right now I don't like him very much. His last post is just too much for me to handle. I'm too angry. Could some of you give me some advice on how to answer him? The problem is that since he has read the Bible, other Christians and Muslims listen to him, as he can be very charming. He is addressing a Christian who said this:

I even like his bible interpretations, as they come from the heart and not from profesional bible courses.

This is the Muslim's response to the quote above:

Thanks & I appreciate your comments on my ability to interpret the true meanings of the Bible which my noble Christian friends here, appreciate.

They feel surprised that a Muslim can explain the true meanings of their own Scripture to them. Instead of asking them to hold their right earlobe with the fingers of their right hand, they are made to cross over the left hand to the right ear followed by the criss crossing at the back of the head, till their hands get locked. That is the way a preacher teaches people.

It is so hard and diffult to believe in One God. How to explain? Analogies are created, references are made to the conversion of water to steam to ice, etc. Yet people are unable to understand fully. When I tell them about One God, the Only God, it sounds so simple, straight and clear that all the confusion vanishes. The Buddhists have the best example: "If you want to look at the moon, do not point a finger and look at the finger. Look at the moon direct" (From the Zen Masters who were not taught at all by the Master).

When I explain to them about: Love thy God, I tell them that you cannot tear up God into three personalities and expect to love each with the same vigor. They sit silent and flabbergasted first but when they realize what I said, they start talking and discussing.

After that, I ask them a simple question: Why do you love Jesus so much more than God? Shouldn't God be loved more than Jesus? They usually agree.

Jesus said, "Hear O Israel, Your God is one." He did not say, " Hear O Israel, Your God is me and my father and an Spirit (belongs to who)"

They sit down and reflect upon the point "Whose spirit anyway"? God's own spirit or Jesus' own spirit. But then there would be two spirits. The triune God would then have to have a fourth spirit and if we are Talking about the spirit as a Spirit on it's one, that makes it five in the trinity. So people start querying why isn't called a Pentagon?

After all people are reading the best-ever translations done which took two thousand years and these translations should be able to convey the message, not confound it.

Another example I quote is on the names of God.

Yahweh: Just a pronoun in Semitic language but turned into a proper noun and soem guys as usual were so frightened that they dared not call the pronoun in full so had to seek Greek's help in Tetragramming it to YHWH, just make it vowel-less because Hebrew has no vowels. By the way Yahweh simply means He, the one who or he who is. If we write yaweh God, then it would mean He is God. That is all to it.

Then comes the big one: Before Abraham I am, should have been "Before Abraham was". "I am" became a proper noun. Then the Israelite knows well about Moses before God. Lord! What shall I tell them your name is? God said "I am that I am" So this also became a proper noun of God.

When I explain in this argumentative manner, the Christians listen but the Jew, you know, will never listen because he has never listened even to Moses, who suffered miserably at the hand of Jew.

Thank you, once again for giving me this opportunity to explain how I teach Bible to Christians.

If I ever write a book it would be titled: "The obstinate Jew & the Impertinent Israel" but I will have to do it by writing for forty days and forty nights, when I get that chance.

Signed (Muslim)

This man is very well educated.

What is your advice? I wish I had more Christians on this site to help me out, but I don't.

Thank you all any may God Bless us all

He doesn't even understand the basic concept of the trinity. It doesn't matter how many persons God has, He is still one. He asks who do you love more, Jesus or God? But to us they are the same! Jesus IS God, and this question is as stupid as asking "Who do you love more, your mother or your mommy?" In addition, there is one instance in the bible in which Jesus says "Me and the Father are One". Maybe somebody who remembers the verse can help you out.

Mastermind,

I think that this guy really does understand the Trinity, but that he rejects it because he has to reject it because he is a Muslim.

this question is as stupid as asking "Who do you love more, your mother or your mommy?"

You craked me up with this one. lol

In addition, there is one instance in the bible in which Jesus says "Me and the Father are One". Maybe somebody who remembers the verse can help you out.

It is, "The Father and I are One."

My concern is that he will sway other Christians to his way of thinking because He claims to be able to interpret Bible Scriptures better than Christians. The sad fact is that Christians do not know the Scriptures as they should.

I am thinking of asking him to interpret some verses. Like this one:

Matthew 12:8 - 'For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath." Who can be the Lord of the Sabbath, but God Himself?

or this one:

Matthew 17:22,23 - "When they came together in Galilee, he said to them, 'The Son of Man is going to be betrayed into the hands of men. They will kill him, and on the third day he will be raised to life.' And the disciples were filled with grief." Muslims do not believe that Jesus died on the cross, so how can they explain this verse?

Anyway, thank you for your response.

God bless.

Christian2

I think that this guy really does understand the Trinity, but that he rejects it because he has to reject it because he is a Muslim.

Well, I am a Christian and I definitely reject the Trinity. There are more reasons to reject the trinity than merely being a Muslim - I know, I was a Muslim first - years ago.

There are 2 in the GodHead according to the Bible - Jesus and the Father. All their angels are spirits.

My $0.02.

Your muslim friend is pretty bad at interpreting scripture. Anyway he reminds me of the Know-it-alls that Paul warned us from becoming or the Sadducees who rejected the resurrection yet Jesus easily proved them wrong using Scripture which they claimed or at least believed they were experts in. The Trinity can be a fairly hard to understand at first, since Jesus tries to hide the fact that he's God so that people realize this on their own. For example remember the skeptical Thomas who after seeing Jesus's wounds after his resurrection says. "my Lord and my God!". In the scripture its suttle yet its there.

Hi Elishyah,

Well, I am a Christian and I definitely reject the Trinity. There are more reasons to reject the trinity than merely being a Muslim - I know, I was a Muslim first - years ago.

The fact that you are a former Muslim is interesting. If it is not too personal why did you finally reject Islam?

There are 2 in the GodHead according to the Bible - Jesus and the Father. All their angels are spirits.

I disagree with you here. What about the Holy Spirit? The Spirit of God?

Thanks,

God bless

The fact that you are a former Muslim is interesting. If it is not too personal why did you finally reject Islam?

When I read the Koran it speaks about the books before it like Revelation, The Torah(first 5 books). It also makes reference to the word given to Moses and Israel as being THE WORD. So, I read my Bible a little more and found out that ALL the prophets and Apostles were Israelites and that this was a decree from GOD. From this, the logical conclusion was that Mohammed COULD NEVER have been a prophet sent by GOD, being an Ishmaelite - at least according to GOD. Also, Mohammed is said to be of the seed of Kedar - a seed that God has marked for punishment. SO I chose to focus on the writings of the people that GOD said He gave His word to - and to totally disregard everyone else.

John 4:22
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Seems to me anyone wanting salvation would heed this.

Quote:
There are 2 in the GodHead according to the Bible - Jesus and the Father. All their angels are spirits.

I disagree with you here. What about the Holy Spirit? The Spirit of God?

Heb 1
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

The spirit, in this context, is an angel - The Comforter, a Holy Angel. Which is a Holy Spirit. The angels that fell with Satan are evil Spirits. There are only 2 things in the creation:
Spirit - The Father, The Son, The Angels
Flesh - Man and everything else that comes from the Earth

The term "spirit" has other meanings in other contexts.
Remember, The Spirit is to guide you into truth.

john 16
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

So, The Father give the word to The Son. The Son gives it to the Spirit. The Spirit will show it to the servants of God.

Now lets look at this in action:

Rev 1
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

This is an example of The Spirit of Truth doing his job.

Other things are called spirit like: The Word of GOD, The thougths of ones mind, and also, the breath you breath.

Well Demons are described as spirits, anyway God is referred to by Jesus as being Spirit, the very definition of it and all spirit's are of course stemming from God. The Holy Spirit is this spirit of God that indwells in people. The Holy Spirit, The Father, and The Son are all of the essence of God. However God needs these 3 forms to fully function in all locations. For example when God came as the man Jesus, he also needed to take on the form of the Holy Spirit so that God could be able to peform miracles in the mortal body. Essentially when God is in us its in the form of the Holy Spirit as God is spirit.

All thru out history men have been trying to interput the Bible. I tell you the truth that you can go to 10 different sermons and get 10 different view points on what the scripture means. It is also said in the Bible that there will be many false prophets in the end days. My suggestion to all my brothers and sisters in Christ is if you have truely been saved and the Holy Spirit is within you then trust your heart and in the directed faith that you have in God. The Love that you have for the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit are all one in the same. These people who try to question or dispute the Holy Word of God will be judged in time. When you are not clear on a scripture or verse discuss it with other believers and then pray and keep praying until you find what you are looking for.
One thing about religion is that they all believe in a God it is how to get to heaven that they disagree on. We as christians believe that the only way to get to heaven is through accepting Jesus Christ as our personal Saviour. I, as a Christian who believes in the Fact that Jesus is the Son of God and he died for our sins, because God was, is and always will be perfect. The only way for God to allow us into Heaven was to give us an out for our sins. This out was Jesus dying on the cross. This was the only way for a perfect God to forgive our imperfect lives. He knew that man would always sin in some form or another. This does not give us the right to live our lives in constant sin, but does forgive us for our slip ups.

For my advise to you respect the muslim as a person but I think that it is very difficult for him to interput the Holy Bible without having the Holy Spirit within him. This is said thruout the Bible that them that do not recieve Jesus will not hear or understand, this is why Jesus often spoke in parables.

Hope this helps

Bill