Evidence for God from Science

This is i think quite interesting in knowing whether God requires us to love ALL the people, and love them all EQUALLY. I know we cant be unfair, but i think everyone has preferences which people they prefer or like more. I know we shouldnt hate anyone but does the Bible say we have to love everyone equally? Eg some are nicer than others, and so on. This is an example:
Imagine there are lots of people in an accident etc, all sorts, all different nations, races, evil, good, young, your best friend/s, your greates enemies etc and you know you can only save one person. Who do you choose? Wouldnt it mean the person you choose is the one you love the most? I think most would choose the person they love the most rather then their greatest enemy. Dunno if this was a good example but can we prefer some people over others? I know Christ doesnt but were just ordinary people.
(I am not asking for the type of love - eg diffeent to your wife/husband than a friend etc but the amount of love and having preferences.)

ANd do we have to love ourselves? I know we shouldnt damage our health etc but... the idea of salvation just "so that I will be happy, forever in joy"... doesnt it sound a bit selfish? Because if we want to be saved and do good and things for God and people dont we do it because of our selfishness to be saved? I mean, if there was no salvation whatsoever, would we do it anyway? So doesnt "because I, MYSELF want to be saved" sound selfish? It kinda does. But if we are to love oursleves as well as others then probably no... or maeybe i am compleyely wrong dont know.

Or giving life for someone? Does it have to be from 100% love or can it be partly for example because we know if we do it God will have mercy for us even if we really dont care about that person? Or eg we want to commit suicide so we sacrifice our life for someone. IS this correct?? We'll stop suffering and help someone. Not for nothing, but for a life - but more to get rid of our own than to help. IS this acceptable?

Hi Mad,
When I first got saved I had all the same questions about love. Like how is a person supposed to love their enemies? As I read a lot of good Christian books on love I discovered that the kind of love that the bible talks about is very different from the romantic or feeling filled love that we think of when we think of love. The main thing I learned is that love is not a feeling. You don't even have to like someone to love them. The love we see in the bible is in verb form.

In John 3:16 “God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son” is better translated “God loved the world in this manner that He gave His one and only Son…”

Romans 5:8 “God demonstrated his love towards us in that while we were yet sinner Christ died for us”

1st John 3:1 “Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us that we should be called the children of God…”

Ephesians 2:5 “And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.”

Do you see the pattern here? True Godly love is an act of the will. Giving, providing, caring for needs apart from feelings and sometimes despite them. If it wasn't for God loving us spiritually depraved sinners, who basically have no redeeming qualities we could never be His children, and He did this by giving us His son.

I like this verse as a good example of Godly love:

Rom 12:20 “Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.”

madscientist wrote:This is i think quite interesting in knowing whether God requires us to love ALL the people, and love them all EQUALLY. I know we cant be unfair, but i think everyone has preferences which people they prefer or like more. I know we shouldnt hate anyone but does the Bible say we have to love everyone equally? Eg some are nicer than others, and so on. This is an example:
Imagine there are lots of people in an accident etc, all sorts, all different nations, races, evil, good, young, your best friend/s, your greates enemies etc and you know you can only save one person. Who do you choose? Wouldnt it mean the person you choose is the one you love the most? I think most would choose the person they love the most rather then their greatest enemy. Dunno if this was a good example but can we prefer some people over others? I know Christ doesnt but were just ordinary people.
(I am not asking for the type of love - eg diffeent to your wife/husband than a friend etc but the amount of love and having preferences.)

Martin,

We have to be no respector of persons just like God is.. We are commanded to do this... And love them unconditionally just like Christ too..

Ephesians 6:9. And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

However, we still need to stand against evil principalities... That's ok to do..

Ephesians 6:12. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

ANd do we have to love ourselves? I know we shouldnt damage our health etc but... the idea of salvation just "so that I will be happy, forever in joy"... doesnt it sound a bit selfish? Because if we want to be saved and do good and things for God and people dont we do it because of our selfishness to be saved? I mean, if there was no salvation whatsoever, would we do it anyway? So doesnt "because I, MYSELF want to be saved" sound selfish? It kinda does. But if we are to love oursleves as well as others then probably no... or maeybe i am compleyely wrong dont know.

I think we can sum this up by NOT having a GOOD self image of yourself, but instead have an ACCURATE image of yourself. You need to love and respect yourself if you want to love and respect others.. But you also need to have an accurate love and respect of yourself. By focusing on God and his goodness we can achieve this more in our lives, but realize that we can still be fallible as well... Does this help?

Or giving life for someone? Does it have to be from 100% love or can it be partly for example because we know if we do it God will have mercy for us even if we really dont care about that person? Or eg we want to commit suicide so we sacrifice our life for someone. IS this correct?? We'll stop suffering and help someone. Not for nothing, but for a life - but more to get rid of our own than to help. IS this acceptable?

This is something you need to lift to God... God can only help us measure our love or the amount needed.

Take care and God bless..

G -

Thx for replies but its still unclear whether the idea of wanting to be saved is selfish or not.
ANs what exactly did you mean by "respect" to yourself and that there is no respect of persons with him [The Master]? Iquite never understood what exactrly that means. Treat yourself as fairly as others?
ANd 1 more question... is it okay to treat yourself less superior than others?

madscientist wrote:Thx for replies but its still unclear whether the idea of wanting to be saved is selfish or not.

No I wouldn't think that the idea of wanting to be saved would be selfish. In fact, the Bible makes it clear that God wants EVERYONE to be saved.. That means you too..

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

ANs what exactly did you mean by "respect" to yourself and that there is no respect of persons with him [The Master]? Iquite never understood what exactrly that means. Treat yourself as fairly as others?

We need to be accurate and honest with ourselves and others.. We need to realize that we can do good things in the eyes of God, but that we can do bad things as well. We need to realize that we need God, we can't always do it ourselves (love and respect) but sometimes we need to do it with the guidance of God. When we look to God, that is where we will find the respect and love of God which then transfers to ourselves and to others. Chirst is our example of perfect love...

In others words, we should realize the good and bad in all of ourselves. Once you realize this, I think this is where the love comes in.. We are all fallible and need God's love. When we focus on God's love and it's purity, it transfers to humans as well. Just be aware, that when you love a human, that love may not come back to you. With God though, he sees the whole show and knows our love better than we do and rewards it in his own way. In other words, don't keep a score card. Let God keep the score card... Does that make better sense?

ANd 1 more question... is it okay to treat yourself less superior than others?

Yes, actually we need to put others in front of ourselves. As Christ himself says, in order to be first sometimes we need to go last.. Just put the thinking in reverse of how the world see's it, and you should get it right every time...

Matthew 19:30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

Luke 13:29-31 People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. 30Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last.

Romans 12:10 Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves.

Hope this helps..

madscientist wrote:Thx for replies but its still unclear whether the idea of wanting to be saved is selfish or not.
ANs what exactly did you mean by "respect" to yourself and that there is no respect of persons with him [The Master]? Iquite never understood what exactrly that means. Treat yourself as fairly as others?
ANd 1 more question... is it okay to treat yourself less superior than others?

We need to have a healthy love and respect for ourselves and others. Not thinking too highly of ourselves and not despising ourselves. This for a Christian is being Christ centered. It's also something that definately needs the work of the Spirit in our lives.

Thx for answers kinda clearer now. But then can we have preferences over some people? Eg with the saving peolle example i put above. I know its maybe not the best but it kindof shows who you love most. I knwo trhat Christian love is not jusr a feeling but its something like an attitude or dunno how to put it in other words.
Ah.. and this just came to my mind - imagine there's your friend you like plotting something bad (for example, on a person yoy both hate) he tells you and trusts you not to tell anyone. Now if you know if you tell he'll be angry but you may save others. Would it be treason? He may feel betrayed by you. SO what is right? I'd feel betrayed even if i knew i was doing evil. SO what would be correct? Or same with seeing criminal acts etc. You are supposed to tell but if it is someone you like and you know if you tell he'd done it he might not like you. personally, that would be how I would feel... ANyone help pls? Another thing bothering me with this love for others thing... What would be right?

madscientist wrote:Thx for answers kinda clearer now. But then can we have preferences over some people? Eg with the saving peolle example i put above. I know its maybe not the best but it kindof shows who you love most. I knwo trhat Christian love is not jusr a feeling but its something like an attitude or dunno how to put it in other words.

I would say that is probably both an attitude and a feeling. Love is a powerful word that can mean many things..

Check these links out about love:

http://www.godandscience.org/love/biblicallove.html
http://www.godandscience.org/love/greatest.html

No, I wouldn't be partial to any group of people or person. A person that you may not know could very well be your spiritual brother.. We all have a partiality to friends and our loved ones, thats true, be we all need to see the world and it's people with the eye's of Christ...

Rich Deem wrote:If you have tried loving others through your own ability to be nice, you have probably discovered that there are certain people who are "impossible" to love. However, God loves the entire world,4 not just the ones who are "easy" to love. Only by abiding in Christ can we fulfill the perfect love of God in our own lives.

I pray that out of His glorious riches He may strengthen you with power through His Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge--that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God. (Ephesians 3:16-19)

http://www.godandscience.org/love/new.html

madscientist wrote:Ah.. and this just came to my mind - imagine there's your friend you like plotting something bad (for example, on a person yoy both hate) he tells you and trusts you not to tell anyone. Now if you know if you tell he'll be angry but you may save others. Would it be treason? He may feel betrayed by you. SO what is right? I'd feel betrayed even if i knew i was doing evil. SO what would be correct? Or same with seeing criminal acts etc. You are supposed to tell but if it is someone you like and you know if you tell he'd done it he might not like you. personally, that would be how I would feel... ANyone help pls? Another thing bothering me with this love for others thing... What would be right?

I think Galatians 6 might help here... Even if you both hate the guy, justice MUST come first in every situation even if it might cost you the relationship between you and your friend.. Therefore you have to do what is right in the eyes of God, even though your friend may not agree with it or may resent you for it.. What would Jesus do?

Galatians 6:1-10

Doing Good to All

1Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. 2Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. 3If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4Each one should test his own actions. Then he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else, 5for each one should carry his own load.

6Anyone who receives instruction in the word must share all good things with his instructor.

7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

Also I would recommend telling his sin in front of him first before you go tell others... As Christ states in Matthew 18...

Matthew 18:15-18

15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Hope this helps...

G -

I think it is possible to love someone without having feelings of "love" for them. I think God demonstrated this to us when He died for us selfish sinful spiritually depraved human beings. True, He had compassion and pity and He showed us mercy by the act of love that He did in sending His only Son, but feelings of love? How do you have feelings of love for an enemy? I'll take compassion and mercy over feelings any time.

FFC wrote:I think it is possible to love someone without having feelings of "love" for them. I think God demonstrated this to us when He died for us selfish sinful spiritually depraved human beings. True, He had compassion and pity and He showed us mercy by the act of love that He did in sending His only Son, but feelings of love? How do you have feelings of love for an enemy? I'll take compassion and mercy over feelings any time.

Well, for me anyways, love can be intertwined with feelings (whatever degree it might be)... For me God is "all" encompassing... He takes on all our hearts, minds, and souls. Everything about our being... In other words the "whole enchilada" (or person) including their emotions.. Call me sentimental...

God wants us to express both phileo love and agape love...

http://www.godandscience.org/love/biblicallove.html

G -

Gman wrote: God wants us to express both phileo love and agape love...

He does? I thought agape was the only one necessary. God shows us agape. But what does the not expecting back anything mean? I mean, God loves us and he wants to love him back. ANd its also nice when the people you love love you back. So why shouldnt we expect them to love us back?
And one more thing... is the reason why we should love people because they are EQUAL to us, GOD'S BEINGS who have FEELINGS and can SUFFER or experience joy and because they weere created in God's image like i was AND HAVE FREE WILL? Is it because of this? Becasue we cant really like things that are DEAD but we can love livinf things...

madscientist wrote:He does? I thought agape was the only one necessary. God shows us agape.

No, God expects both.. Quote from Rich: "Peter was quite proficient at expressing phileo love, and was probably very popular because of his dynamic character. However, God wants us to express both phileo love and agape love. Peter expressed this idea in his first epistle:

Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a sincere love [phileo] of the brethren, fervently love [agape] one another from the heart, (1 Peter 1:22)

Believers in the churches of Asia Minor had already expressed phileo love, but Peter was encouraging them to fervently express agape love as well. If you are a Christian, you are encouraged to express both soulish, familiar love and spirit-led unconditional love."

But what does the not expecting back anything mean? I mean, God loves us and he wants to love him back. ANd its also nice when the people you love love you back. So why shouldnt we expect them to love us back?

Good question... Yes, it is nice and appropriate to get love back (or even expect it back). It just needs to be given without any hooks.. Here is a question for you, when you love someone, does it always come back to you..? In other words, are you going to love someone only if they give their love back to you? That seems more like a conditional love than a real love... If you love someone, set them free.. (Sting from the Police).

And if you don't get your love back, God will see it and pay it back somehow, (I don't know how because I'm not God). Anyways that is why I said not to keep a score card. Love may not come back to you. Especially when we are talking about humans.. If we can understand that, I think it allows us to love people more.. Love people without expectations or conditions and you will have a more powerful love...

And one more thing... is the reason why we should love people because they are EQUAL to us, GOD'S BEINGS who have FEELINGS and can SUFFER or experience joy and because they weere created in God's image like i was AND HAVE FREE WILL? Is it because of this? Becasue we cant really like things that are DEAD but we can love livinf things...

Not sure if I understand the question here... We should do things out of love... From my understanding we should love all people because they are made in the image of God.. We all have feelings, emotions, sufferings, etc... In other words, when you do things (whatever they might be) unto people, you are actually doing it to God... I wouldn't get caught up on who is equal or not, we are all the same in God's eyes... God doesn't show favoritism to people neither should we... It's that simple... Matthew 25 is a good example of doing things to all..

Matthew 25:35-37

35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

Hope this helps..

G -

1John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

We love first and foremost because we are commanded to as representatives of Christ. The kind of agape love that we are to love each other with is impossible without the power and spirit of God...who is love.

We are to love people whether they deserve it or not, or even whether they are capable emotionally to love us back...just like when God demonstrated his love for us when we were spiritually dead.

FFC wrote:1John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you..

Excellent verses FFC (and your words too).. Now why didn't I say that?

You would make a good Californian with that talk...

G -

Gman wrote:Excellent verses FFC (and your words too).. Now why didn't I say that?

I think you already did, I just gave the Cliff notes.

Gman wrote:You would make a good Californian with that talk...

I'm not sure what that means but thank you.

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