Evidence for God from Science

Oriental wrote:Whenever I run into people or read document in English about the second world war, I was never told about the atrocity that the Japanese troops have done on China. On reading the following link, I note that when discussing where the evil comes from, only Holocaust, Russian Stalin massacre etc are mentioned

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/spiritual.html

I bet the massacre during the Japanese invasion into Asian countries cost so many lives no less in number than the Holocaust and Russian totalitarian rule have brought about. Are the plight in the Asian countries understated?

I can speak as a Canadian who now lives in the US.

I'm aware of some of the attrocities commited not only by the Japanese, but also prior to WWII by the Chinese to the Japanese. I think the US, like most countries focuses upon those portions of history that support their version of history that makes them look best. We tend to see things more through WWII in Europe than in Asia.

That is to our shame in my opinion.

Canuckster1127 wrote:
I can speak as a Canadian who now lives in the US.

I'm aware of some of the attrocities commited not only by the Japanese, but also prior to WWII by the Chinese to the Japanese. I think the US, like most countries focuses upon those portions of history that support their version of history that makes them look best. We tend to see things more through WWII in Europe than in Asia.

That is to our shame in my opinion.

I understand US government plays influential role among UN countries and its economy can move and impact the global so much. It occurs to me no one ever say a word impartial to the circumstances. A historian, I guess, should balance the significance amidst the portion of history that is significant to mankinds.

Admittedly in science and civilization China lags and lagged behind the G-7 countries these days and those days notably the civil war caused China in chao so much that reform has been late. Nonetheless, China was geographically the key area about Japanese military ambition bypassing it would have made Japaneses almost impossible to conquer the Pacific Oceanic realm. plus ammunition the Japanese workforces were aided by resources they got from China like refinery of iron and steel for cannons, tanks and warplanes. It is scornful when history is so much politically distorted.

I have ill-feeling about the deliberate ignorance of this portion in global history.

It is even disgraceful to talk about the atrocity the Chineses have ever had on Japaneses when the bloodshed in China came first from civil war but not from battles between different countries and different tribe. If Americans tend to ignore the Japanese invasion into China, Americans are barbarians like the Japaneses in those days as well always adhering to nationalism which is actually the cause of wars.

I would like to have those folks in here say something about what actually happened in China during WWII , what do they know and hear? very curious indeed.

Oriental wrote:I have ill-feeling about the deliberate ignorance of this portion in global history.

Hi Oriental, I agree with you. I believe the whole problem boils down to ignorance in the western mind. I don't think it was deliberate though, sometimes we just don't get all the facts or think out of the western box or sphere... When WWII happened, it was also a differnet world back then. We mainly looked at things from our point of view (like the bombing of Pearl Harbor) and not China's. We also didn't have the internet back then either to get the news across as well. People here knew what was happening to China, they just didn't focus on it until it became their problem. Much of Europe was also upset with the U.S. for entering the war so late. By the time the U.S. entered the war, many many Europeans and Jews perished.. In fact, it wasn't until after the war that we knew that so many Jews were killed in the holocaust, (6 million..).

Anyways I'm sad to hear about this bad treatment of the Chinese people back then. I knew about it, but not in much detail. I'm sorry your people were mistreated by the Japanese. I believe China was treated more harshly than the Americans in many ways. From what I understand following the Battle of Lugou Bridge in 1937, the Japanese occupied Shanghai, Nanjing and Southern Shanxi in campaigns involving approximately 350,000 Japanese soldiers, and considerably more Chinese soldiers. Chinese historians estimate as many as 300,000 people perished in the Nanjing Massacre, after the fall of Nanjing.

Some Chinese historians claimed the total military and non-military deaths of the Chinese were at most 35 million. That is amazing...

Today it is different though... We can look up all the wars that have occurred throughout the world for or facts. I usually use Wikipedia for that. This is what it says about the Second Sino-Japanese War (July 7, 1937 - September 9, 1945 ).

Chinese casualties

* The Kuomintang fought in 22 major engagements, most of which involved more than 100,000 troops on both sides, 1,171 minor engagements most of which involved more than 50,000 troops on both sides, and 38,931 skirmishes.
* The CPC mostly fought guerilla attacks in rural area in North China. It would later give them credence to win them support in the Chinese Civil War.
* The Chinese lost approximately 3.22 million soldiers. 9.13 million civilians died in the crossfire, and another 8.4 million as non-military casualties. Some Chinese historians claimed the total military and non-military deaths of the Chinese were at most 35 million.
* Property loss of the Chinese valued up to 383,301.3 million US dollars according to the currency exchange rate in July 1937, roughly 50 times of the GDP of Japan at that time (7,700 million US dollars). [citation needed]
* In addition, the war created ninety-five million refugees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War

If such a calamity happened today I'm sure it would be a different story... On every T.V. channel...

Gman wrote: Hi Oriental, I agree with you. I believe the whole problem boils down to ignorance in the western mind. I don't think it was deliberate though, sometimes we just don't get all the facts or think out of the western box or sphere... When WWII happened, it was also a differnet world back then. We mainly looked at things from our point of view (like the bombing of Pearl Harbor) and not China's. We also didn't have the internet back then either to get the news across as well. People here knew what was happening to China, they just didn't focus on it until it became their problem. Much of Europe was also upset with the U.S. for entering the war so late. By the time the U.S. entered the war, many many Europeans and Jews perished.. In fact, it wasn't until after the war that we knew that so many Jews were killed in the holocaust, (6 million..).

Anyways I'm sad to hear about this bad treatment of the Chinese people back then. I knew about it, but not in much detail. I'm sorry your people were mistreated by the Japanese. I believe China was treated more harshly than the Americans in many ways. From what I understand following the Battle of Lugou Bridge in 1937, the Japanese occupied Shanghai, Nanjing and Southern Shanxi in campaigns involving approximately 350,000 Japanese soldiers, and considerably more Chinese soldiers. Chinese historians estimate as many as 300,000 people perished in the Nanjing Massacre, after the fall of Nanjing.

Some Chinese historians claimed the total military and non-military deaths of the Chinese were at most 35 million. That is amazing...

Today it is different though... We can look up all the wars that have occurred throughout the world for or facts. I usually use Wikipedia for that. This is what it says about the Second Sino-Japanese War (July 7, 1937 - September 9, 1945 ).

Chinese casualties

* The Kuomintang fought in 22 major engagements, most of which involved more than 100,000 troops on both sides, 1,171 minor engagements most of which involved more than 50,000 troops on both sides, and 38,931 skirmishes.
* The CPC mostly fought guerilla attacks in rural area in North China. It would later give them credence to win them support in the Chinese Civil War.
* The Chinese lost approximately 3.22 million soldiers. 9.13 million civilians died in the crossfire, and another 8.4 million as non-military casualties. Some Chinese historians claimed the total military and non-military deaths of the Chinese were at most 35 million.
* Property loss of the Chinese valued up to 383,301.3 million US dollars according to the currency exchange rate in July 1937, roughly 50 times of the GDP of Japan at that time (7,700 million US dollars). [citation needed]
* In addition, the war created ninety-five million refugees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War

If such a calamity happened today I'm sure it would be a different story... On every T.V. channel...

Thanks for your findings.

First of all, it is admissible that the post subject: "is it racism" is sorta sentimental and I do not intend to stir any disgruntle (if any) ..

I understand that this website's thread mentioning the "existence of evil" with reference to omission of Sino-Japanese war is unintentional.

I talk of this omission partly because I was told the Revelation mentions the Evil carrying 200 million soldiers to fight and Chinese government claimed that they have 200 million of...

I don't want to be biased about the Chineses; I am acutely aware of the viewpoints the westerners think about them which I don't wanna defend. Since time is pretty constrained I am in office it can be in intersting topics to talk about them.

Oriental wrote:

Gman wrote: Hi Oriental, I agree with you. I believe the whole problem boils down to ignorance in the western mind. I don't think it was deliberate though, sometimes we just don't get all the facts or think out of the western box or sphere... When WWII happened, it was also a differnet world back then. We mainly looked at things from our point of view (like the bombing of Pearl Harbor) and not China's. We also didn't have the internet back then either to get the news across as well. People here knew what was happening to China, they just didn't focus on it until it became their problem. Much of Europe was also upset with the U.S. for entering the war so late. By the time the U.S. entered the war, many many Europeans and Jews perished.. In fact, it wasn't until after the war that we knew that so many Jews were killed in the holocaust, (6 million..).

Anyways I'm sad to hear about this bad treatment of the Chinese people back then. I knew about it, but not in much detail. I'm sorry your people were mistreated by the Japanese. I believe China was treated more harshly than the Americans in many ways. From what I understand following the Battle of Lugou Bridge in 1937, the Japanese occupied Shanghai, Nanjing and Southern Shanxi in campaigns involving approximately 350,000 Japanese soldiers, and considerably more Chinese soldiers. Chinese historians estimate as many as 300,000 people perished in the Nanjing Massacre, after the fall of Nanjing.

Some Chinese historians claimed the total military and non-military deaths of the Chinese were at most 35 million. That is amazing...

Today it is different though... We can look up all the wars that have occurred throughout the world for or facts. I usually use Wikipedia for that. This is what it says about the Second Sino-Japanese War (July 7, 1937 - September 9, 1945 ).

Chinese casualties

* The Kuomintang fought in 22 major engagements, most of which involved more than 100,000 troops on both sides, 1,171 minor engagements most of which involved more than 50,000 troops on both sides, and 38,931 skirmishes.
* The CPC mostly fought guerilla attacks in rural area in North China. It would later give them credence to win them support in the Chinese Civil War.
* The Chinese lost approximately 3.22 million soldiers. 9.13 million civilians died in the crossfire, and another 8.4 million as non-military casualties. Some Chinese historians claimed the total military and non-military deaths of the Chinese were at most 35 million.
* Property loss of the Chinese valued up to 383,301.3 million US dollars according to the currency exchange rate in July 1937, roughly 50 times of the GDP of Japan at that time (7,700 million US dollars). [citation needed]
* In addition, the war created ninety-five million refugees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War

If such a calamity happened today I'm sure it would be a different story... On every T.V. channel...

Thanks for your findings.

First of all, it is admissible that the post subject: "is it racism" is sorta sentimental and I do not intend to stir any disgruntle (if any) ..

I understand that this website's thread mentioning the "existence of evil" with reference to omission of Sino-Japanese war is unintentional.

I talk of this omission partly because I was told the Revelation mentions the Evil carrying 200 million soldiers to fight and Chinese government claimed that they have 200 million of...

I don't want to be biased about the Chineses; I am acutely aware of the viewpoints the westerners think about them which I don't wanna defend. Since time is pretty constrained I am in office it can be in intersting topics to talk about them.

The point of the article on the main board, as well as many other locations where these examples are cited, is not racial primary.

The point is in reaction to a common criticism of Christianity and religion in general that claims because religious wars have taken place that that invalidates the message and that religion must be inherently intolerant and evil.

The response, which includes China, is not based upon nationality or race, but rather the observation that the societies in which these mentioned atrocities took place at the time were either non-religious, or atheist. In light of that, the list is not exhuastive, but rather appeals to those events that are better known among westerners.

That does not, nor is it intended to indicate that any events omitted are not important.

I hope that observation helps.

Bart

Oriental wrote:Thanks for your findings.

First of all, it is admissible that the post subject: "is it racism" is sorta sentimental and I do not intend to stir any disgruntle (if any) ..

I understand that this website's thread mentioning the "existence of evil" with reference to omission of Sino-Japanese war is unintentional.

I talk of this omission partly because I was told the Revelation mentions the Evil carrying 200 million soldiers to fight and Chinese government claimed that they have 200 million of...

I don't want to be biased about the Chineses; I am acutely aware of the viewpoints the westerners think about them which I don't wanna defend. Since time is pretty constrained I am in office it can be in intersting topics to talk about them.

Hi Oriental... You didn't stir up any problems up with me... I'm very glad you brought this issue up. I never knew the total military and non-military deaths of the Chinese were at most 35 million until I looked it up on Wikipedia. I'm totally amazed at that...

As far as the book of Revelation, I would also be upset if someone said that about my country too. Some take it literally, others don't. To me it is mostly symbolic, so I don't think China has much to do (if any) with some of those prophecies.

Take care,

G -