Evidence for God from Science

Okay, the title was just a joke, but the topic is serious. I am curious about what Christians think about masturbation? Is it a sin? If so how is a young Christian man expected to ignore the sexual energy that is so prominent in a man's life in his middle teens through whenever he gets married? Just curious about your thoughts on this.

GO FOR YOUR LIFE. You'll feel better, you'll be less stressed, it's guilt free, it's quick, you don't have to make idle converation afterwards, it's risk free and it's fun! Best still, you can close your eyes and pretend it's anyone you like!

There is no rational reason to not fill your boots ... if you'll excuse the visual image...

Ray

Hi chomputer,

Allow me to respond without providing a direct answer

Do you think masturbation would be a sin? Also can you explain your reasons why... I think it would be better to work with your reasoning, rather than just provide a "Yes" or "No" which doesn't really say anything about why it might or mightn't be a sin or wrong to do.

Kurieuo.

Well, I don't know whether it's a sin. I feel kind of conflicted about it. It seems harmless, enjoyable, and a safe way to relieve that sexual energy that is a fundamental part of God's design for humans. On the other hand, it does bring about lustful thoughts. But, God created me as a sexual person, so why wouldn't he want me to satisfy those needs? And seeing as it is such a pleasurable way of filling those needs, it seems almost like a gift from God, and like I shouldn't worry about it.

You touched on a few issues I would have brought up, but I don't think one reason you provided in particular was convincing. Your question, "God created me as a sexual person, so why wouldn't he want me to satisfy those needs?" This reason would only be valid if one was fully accepting of the hedonistic cry, "if it feels good, do it." Such could be used to justify any kind of sexual activity, so my response would be that God did give us ways to satisfy those needs, but with everything there is usually a right way of fulfillment and a wrong way. And in my opinion the right way of sexual fulfillment, such as saving yourself for that one person, would be much better than fulfilling those sexual desires in a wrong way.

Yet we're just talking masturbation here, and it seems you've made the distinction yourself between the act of masturbation, and fantasizing about having sex with others (i.e., lustful thoughts). It seems you consider the later wrong and not former, and I would be very agreeable to this view. I personally believe if the first can be devoid of the second, then one should have a totally clean conscience on the matter. But then if one feels their conscience weighing them down, this can make them feel further away from God...

To end, I think masturbation when done in a right way could be a useful method of helping one to conquer their sexual appetite in order to save themselves for marriage. When it comes down to such issues as masturbation being blown out of proportion, I really begin to wonder just how selfish and in ourselves we can become. We will always struggle with sin until the day we die. Yet, it is only Christ who perfects us, and so I think it would be much better trying to show love and help to others (in obedience to the second of the two great commandments Christ gave), rather than to be constantly tied up within our own lives. Look outward more, and not inward as much. If we accept and love Christ, He has promised to be with us and shape us. Trust Him to do this, and then we can perhaps lighten up and focus more on what is external; being a conduit allowing Christ's own love to shine into the lives of others.

<blockquote>16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. (2 Cor. 3:16-18)</blockquote>
Kurieuo.

Blind Electric Ray wrote:GO FOR YOUR LIFE. You'll feel better, you'll be less stressed, it's guilt free, it's quick, you don't have to make idle converation afterwards, it's risk free and it's fun! Best still, you can close your eyes and pretend it's anyone you like!
There is no rational reason to not fill your boots ... if you'll excuse the visual image...

Ray

I'd be careful of Ray's advice.

Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'
Mat 5:28 But now I tell you: anyone who looks at a woman and wants to possess her is guilty of committing adultery with her in his heart.
Mat 5:29 So if your right eye causes you to sin, take it out and throw it away! It is much better for you to lose a part of your body than to have your whole body thrown into hell.
(Good News Bible Translation)

I just think it significant to point out that at the end of Christ's speech on adultery, divorce, oaths and so on in Matthew 5 -- He concludes telling us to "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." That seems like an awfully big task, but is it really possible for us?

Kurieuo.

Hi chomputer,

I a few months ago read "Every Young Man's Battle", and I highly recommend you find yourself a copy.

I struggled with it too. I think that if you can do it without any fantasies or lust, it's probably okay, but it's also cyclical, so it's much better not to. If you starve your sexuality, the temptation eventually goes away for most of the time. By that point, you'll be so clear-hearted and clear-headed about God that when temptation does hit, you'll automatically call to God and not *really* desire things of the flesh--that is, not calling to God but still deep down *wanting* to be lead astray just one more time--and there will be no power in Hell that can keep you from doing well.

If you need someone to talk to as you struggle through it, PM me and I'll be there. Again, though, I really highly recommend you read that book. It doesn't take long to read, it's full of wisdom, and it sinks in quite effectively. (I've read Every Woman's Battle too--if you've got a girlfriend, it's much more illuminating than the chapter they stuck in the end of EYMB.)

May God richly bless your desire for a clean heart and answer your honest questions,

Lack

I'd be careful of Ray's advice.

Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'
Mat 5:28 But now I tell you: anyone who looks at a woman and wants to possess her is guilty of committing adultery with her in his heart.
(Good News Bible Translation)

For argument sake...what if the imagination only extends to a faceless woman & not someone known. Does that still constitute adultery?

I think one can use their own logic to answer your question. I personally believe the thrust of Christ's words in Matthew are being overlooked. It is meant to show just how "holy" we must be if we are to attain God's standard. We must be perfect, pure in thought and deed, to attain God's standard. Impossible? Right.

Yet, through Christ we can be accepted despite our impurities which should become more refined during our life as we walk with Christ. God through Christ is able to work with us where we're at, not when we're at which is impossible.

Kurieuo.

Is it a sin?

Assuming that you know the scriptures so that i do not to look it up.
You know that Jesus said, "to one man it is sin, yet to another, it is Not".

Therefore the real question is, (as was asked by Kurieuo), "Is it sin To You?
To answer that question, is to quote the First commandment.
"I am the God who brings you OUT OF BONDAGE!
You shall have No Other gods Before Me."

New question;

"Am i, in Bondage to this "Thing?"
("thing" being, any one or combination of the following gods;
masterbation, Sex, Drugs, Alchohol, Cigarrettes, Food; Husbands, Wives, Children, ect,ect,ect.)

For if so, then truly, you are in sin.
For as sin is, the setting of one god before another,
Anytime you set one of these "little" gods before the One True God who lives "in You",
then your sin,
is not only against Him,
but against your Self, as well.

More, "you believe", masterbation a sin. And therefore it is.
However, in Reality,
it is your own lack of "Self Control".

In truth (insideyou), you already know this.
That is why you asked; "What is a christian man to do?"
("how do i control myself?")
And then answered yourself, rationalizing; "Sex,is a Gift."

Yes, it is a gift.
Yet, Not, for you.
To you, it is Bondage, and a "faultering" of your own will.
More, it is a betrayal. A Self-betrayal.
As you resolve within yourself, Not, to do it again. And yet, you do.

Normally, i do not give scripture locations.
Yet because i believe you a seeking spirit and an honest soul, Romans 7:15 - 8:14.
There you will find your problem to be more of a gift, and a curse, than you know.


Nonetheless, know that as God has Already forgiven you.
And in fact, thru Christ, "Released you" from even having to think about this problem.
You will never be truly Free,
Until You, have forgiven YourSelf.

Self forgivness.
Which will come.
But only after, you have Control of your self.



And for this purpose, God gave us fasting and prayer, but Especially, the Sabbath.
(note: Man, corrupted this day when he made it a day of bondage. Yet By God, it was made a day of Freedom!)


yours truly,

~afriend


p.s. A word of warning.
Besides the obvious spiritual and emotional effects of sin, there are "physical" effects as well.
Sex outside the norm, will Destroy your Body!
More, even normal sex will destroy the body when desire, becomes obsession.

As it is the spirit that is manifested in the body,
when the spirit becomes corrupt,
so too the flesh.

ok what it boils down to is...its still lust...sin originates in the mind...you therefore have an active thought before you physically do something....how do you know its wrong? because your questioning it...why because the holy spirit is promting you...it doesn't matter if its a faceless individual or not when you fantisize its still lust...ergo a sin.

oh young fellas before you all get embarressed about a female posting on this thread i'm middle age mother of 6...nothing i haven't seen heard about or done at some point.....but if you feel me replying is out of order then just delete the post ok?

Honestly, I can do it without imagining a person at all. Many won't believe this for whatever reason, but it's irrelevant, because lust is lust, whether the object is your own pleasure itself or a human being.

I used to subscribe to the argument that it's good to do it (insofar as it holds you back from seeking to have sex with someone before marriage), but better not to. I still think that has merit, but the more I've abstained, the more I realize--why would I consciously settle for "good"? Do I really want to be luke-warm toward God when He loves me so much, and when *I* am the one standing in the way of our perfect relationship, not Him?

About your being female, speaking for me, I don't really care, 'cause it's online. If you were my mom or something, that would be a different thing to deal with, but still, thanks for posting.

Lack

Lack wrote:Honestly, I can do it without imagining a person at all... it's irrelevant, because lust is lust, whether the object is your own pleasure itself or a human being.

I think Amber was just associating the thought of a headless body (some sickos around ) as lusting after that body, but if you really don't have to picture anything, then how can there be lust if you're not picturing anything? It appears to me that "lust" is somehow being equivocated to a "pleasure" factor, but "lust" according to a dictionary "an intense or obsessive desire." Actually, perhaps this could be relegated to the intense need to masturbate in and of itself (i.e., a lust for masturbation--rather than someone else), but I'm not sure I'd see this as wrong. Which leads me onto the second issue I picked up on.

amber wrote:it doesn't matter if its a faceless individual or not when you fantisize its still lust...ergo a sin.

Correct me if I took your words wrong, but I believe you are essentially saying that "lust" is a sin, plain and simple. Given the belief that lust = sin, allow me to raise the stakes.

Within marriage one can lust after their partner. Is this a sin, or is it the desire being healthily met in a right way? I personally believe God created feelings, such as our sexual feelings and longing for another, to be satisfied within marriage. I do not believe lust is a sin plain and simple, and I do not think lust can be equivocated simply into pleasure. Anyway, I just thought I'd add my own comments on these two issues I picked up on.

Kurieuo.

Lust outside of marriage is a sin, wouldn't you agree? I wouldn't call it lust (because of these very connotations :) ) within marriage--I would just call it healthy desire, even if it feels similar.

It's (caution: very single-faceted analogy coming up) like wanting to drive a sportscar. If it's yours, that's fine. If it's not, you have problems, especially if you act on your want.

"I shall not want."

Lack