Evidence for God from Science

I have wondered why the Bible doesn't mention anyone asking Lazarus what happened to him during those three days he was dead.

After all, that was not just a near-death experience. It was an real-death experience.

One of the great mysteries of life has always been, "What really happens when we die?"

What a great opportunity to get a reliable answer to that quesiton by someone who had actually gone through the process.

What do you think Lazarus would have said?

Don

DonCameron wrote:I have wondered why the Bible doesn't mention anyone asking Lazarus what happened to him during those three days he was dead.

After all, that was not just a near-death experience. It was an real-death experience.

One of the great mysteries of life has always been, "What really happens when we die?"

What a great opportunity to get a reliable answer to that quesiton by someone who had actually gone through the process.

What do you think Lazarus would have said?

Don

I imagine he might have said ..... "Why do you ask?"

Eastern mindsets are very different from western on a lot of things.

Bart,

I would have asked Lazarus if Solomon got it right when he said that when we die we go to "Sheol" or"Hades" where there is "no work, nor devising nor knowledge or wisdom" because "the dead are conscious of nothing at all." - Ecceliastes (9:5,10)

Don

DonCameron wrote:Bart,

I would have asked Lazarus if Solomon got it right when he said that when we die we go to "Sheol" or"Hades" where there is "no work, nor devising nor knowledge or wisdom" because "the dead are conscious of nothing at all." - Ecceliastes (9:5,10)

Don

Probably better to ask Jesus about that. He's been there and back too.

Perhaps the gospels hold the answer for you.

Bart

I wonder if is possible that the reason why the Jews didn't bother asking Lazarus what it was like to be dead because they already knew what it was like to be dead because of what Solomon said about what it was like to be dead. - Ecclesiastes 9:5,10

Don

Don it's all conjecture to me.. But I would probably lean in that direction as well along with Psalms 146:4... The truth of the matter here is that it is only a theory like all the other theories in the Bible. So I wouldn't get too hung up on it nor try to force your opinion on others. To find the real truth I guess we are going to have to die...

Btw, your theory isn't anything new (the dead are not conscious after death). I've heard it taught over 20 years ago..

DonCameron wrote:I wonder if is possible that the reason why the Jews didn't bother asking Lazarus what it was like to be dead because they already knew what it was like to be dead because of what Solomon said about what it was like to be dead. - Ecclesiastes 9:5,10

Don

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Scripture tells us what we need to know.

Ecclesiastes 9: 5-6 (NASB)

5For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten.

6Indeed their love, their hate and their zeal have already perished, and they will no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun.

Does this passage not speak more to a living persons perception of death than the idea of unconsciousness in death? Does that make sense?

FFC,

You asked...

Does (Ecclesiastes 9:5,10) not speak more to a living person's perception of death than the idea of unconsciousness in death?

It's true that people who are dead sure look like they are unconscious. Is the reason they look like they are unconscious is because they really are unconscious - just as Solomon said?

I notice in verse 5 that Solomon said something that we know for a certainty is literally true. He said, "For the living are conscious that they will die."

It doesn't seem unreasonable to me to conclude that since I know that what Solomon said about the living is true, then what he said about the dead is also true.

Don

DonCameron wrote:FFC,

You asked...

Does (Ecclesiastes 9:5,10) not speak more to a living person's perception of death than the idea of unconsciousness in death?

It's true that people who are dead sure look like they are unconscious. Is the reason they look like they are unconscious is because they really are unconscious - just as Solomon said?

I notice in verse 5 that Solomon said something that we know for a certainty is literally true. He said, "For the living are conscious that they will die."

It doesn't seem unreasonable to me to conclude that since I know that what Solomon said about the living is true, then what he said about the dead is also true.

Don

Would Jesus know what he was talking about in this regard? Would it be true?

Bart,

You asked...

Would Jesus know what he was talking about (what happens when we die)? Would it be true?

Sure.

One of the places I see him saying something about this is John 3:16 where he said that those who do not receive everlasting life will "perish."

The word "perish" means, "to become destroyed or ruined : cease to exist."

The word "destroy" means, "to put an end to; to do away with."

Jesus' use of the word "perish" helps to explain to me why "the dead are conscious of nothing at all." - Ecc. 9:5

My understanding is that this is what happens to everything that ends up in "the second death." - Rev. 20:14,15

Don

I would've asked Lazarus, 'How're you doing today?'

DonCameron wrote:Bart,

You asked...

Would Jesus know what he was talking about (what happens when we die)? Would it be true?

Sure.

One of the places I see him saying something about this is John 3:16 where he said that those who do not receive everlasting life will "perish."

The word "perish" means, "to become destroyed or ruined : cease to exist."

The word "destroy" means, "to put an end to; to do away with."

Jesus' use of the word "perish" helps to explain to me why "the dead are conscious of nothing at all." - Ecc. 9:5

My understanding is that this is what happens to everything that ends up in "the second death." - Rev. 20:14,15

Don

Don,

You need to take the entire word of God and evaluate it and not simply pick and choose I also believe passages, which are then corellated together. That's often eisogesis, going to construct an argument looking for the proof you need.

Answer me this.

I believe we agreed that God created Satan and the fallen angels now known as demons correct?

I also believe we agreed that Satan andhis fallen angels would be in the lake of fire for eternity.

On what basis do you separate fallen men who have rejected Christ and mitigate their sentence?

Is God Just in his pronouncement regarding Satan and the Demons? What delineates one for the other in terms of men? Be specific and use Scripture if you would please.

Bart

Hi Gman,

I had forgotten about Psalm 146:4 which also explains what happens when we die...

"His spirit ('ruahh') goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thougts do periish."

There's that word "perish" again. See John 3:16

Where does our "spirit" go when it "goes out"? Solomon said that after death, "The dust returns to the earth...and the spirit returns to God who gave it."

Don

Bart,

You said...

I believe we agreed that God created Satan and the fallen angels now known as demons correct?

I don't feel that God created "Satan the Devil." Rather that He created a perfect angel who later turned himself into Satan the Devil. In the same way, God didn't create "fallen angels." He created perfect angels who later used their free will to turn themselves into demons against God.

I also believe we agreed that Satan and his fallen angels would be in the lake of fire for eternity.

Yes. They will remain in "the second death" forever.

On what basis do you separate fallen men who have rejected Christ and mitigate their sentence?

I don't understand your question. Can you re-word it for me?

Is God Just in his pronouncement regarding Satan and the Demons?

Yes

What delineates one for the other in terms of men?

Sorry Bart but here too, I don't understand what you are asking.

Don