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Re: Calvinism and Arminianism

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:12 am
by Oriental
Canuckster1127 wrote:1. Free Will or Human Ability (Arminianism)

Although human nature was seriously affected by the fall, man has not been left in a state of total spiritual helplessness. God graciously enables every sinner to repent and believe, but He does not interfere with man's freedom. Each sinner possesses a free will, and his eternal destiny depends on how he uses it. Man's freedom consists of his ability to choose good over evil in spiritual matters; his will is not enslaved to his sinful nature. The sinner has the power to either cooperate with God's Spirit and be regenerated or resist God's grace and perish. The lost sinner needs the Spirit's assistance, but he does not have to be regeneratem,d by the Spirit before he can believe, for faith is man's act and precedes the new birth. Faith is the sinner's gift to God; it is man's contribution to salvation.
I am inclined to believe this. I have heard number of people who said we would never lose our Salvation because it is God's gift. On the contrary, I believe that we may lose it if we do not choose and rely on God, even though God is always there awaiting our reliance on Him.

Oriental.


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Re: Calvinism and Arminianism

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:25 am
by Canuckster1127
Oriental wrote:
Canuckster1127 wrote:1. Free Will or Human Ability (Arminianism)

Although human nature was seriously affected by the fall, man has not been left in a state of total spiritual helplessness. God graciously enables every sinner to repent and believe, but He does not interfere with man's freedom. Each sinner possesses a free will, and his eternal destiny depends on how he uses it. Man's freedom consists of his ability to choose good over evil in spiritual matters; his will is not enslaved to his sinful nature. The sinner has the power to either cooperate with God's Spirit and be regenerated or resist God's grace and perish. The lost sinner needs the Spirit's assistance, but he does not have to be regeneratem,d by the Spirit before he can believe, for faith is man's act and precedes the new birth. Faith is the sinner's gift to God; it is man's contribution to salvation.
I am inclined to believe this. I have heard number of people who said we would never lose our Salvation because it is God's gift. On the contrary, I believe that we may lose it if we do not choose and rely on God, even though God is always there awaiting our reliance on Him.

Oriental.


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Thanks for the feedback. If you wish to discuss it with others, let me know and I'll use this to start a new thread. Please keep this thread for resources.

Good thread it is.

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:53 am
by Oriental
Bart,

I'll keep looking when I have spare time on it.


Oriental.



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We can strike a balance between these.

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:01 pm
by Oriental
I think God's sovereignty doesn't mean that He proactively dominates and controls and ordains everything. There is slight difference conceptually. For instance, one has the ability to kill a cockcroach not permitting it contaminating the living rooms. It doesn't mean that he will, must, and is bound to, exercise or execute his ability to kill. He may still let the cockcroach run around; the cockcroach has freewill to go anywhere it likes or senses. I find no problem about this.

Oriental.



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Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:12 pm
by Gman
Nicely put Oriental.. And yes I agree with you.. :P

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:50 pm
by puritan lad
Byblos,

I dealt with much of the Scriptural objections in my response thread. However, I'll briefly correct a few historical errors made by Mr. Abrams.

1.) "John Calvin, the Swiss reformer (1509-1564) and theologian, drafted this system in Soteriology (study of salvation) that bears his name. The term "Calvinism" refers to doctrines and practices stemmed from the works of John Calvin and his followers, which became the distinguishing characteristic of the Reformed churches. Calvinism is often called the "Doctrine of Grace" which is a problem, because Calvinism denies God's grace to most of mankind."

First of all, Calvin was French, not Swiss.

Second, Abrams fails to provide a link or a reference to this system in Soteriology that Calvin drafted. As far as I know, Calvin never drafted any "system of Soteriology", or at least anything different from that which was taught by his peers and predecessors. Calvinism did not originate with Calvin. It was the theology of Luther, of the Reformers, of Augustine, and, dare I say, Paul.

Third, the name "Doctrine of Grace" is not a problem at all. It can more accurately be called the "Doctrine of Sovereign Grace", as it agrees with Paul in Romans 9:18, " So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills."

2.) "This controversy began during the Reformation in the 16th Century".

No so. It began in the 4th Century with the Pelagian Heresy. . (Whenever I debate diehard Catholics in this area, I always refer to St. Augustine of Hippo.) Luther and Erasmus debated the same issue a generation before Calvin. Also, keep in mind that the so-called "Five Points of Calvinism" were a biblical response to the "Five Points of Arminianism" presented by the Remonstrance at the Synod of Dort in 1618, 54 years after Calvin's death.

3.) Such men as Charles Spurgeon, one of the greatest preachers in resent times, dealt with the matter by alternately preaching both salvation by grace and man's responsibility to respond to God's offer of redemption. He would preach election, that salvation was of God on one Sunday and the next Sunday preach that man must exercise his will and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Again, Abrams makes a generalized statement and offers no reference to support it. When did Spurgeon ever teach that "man must exercise his will and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ". Spurgeon did not "alternately preach" anything. Spurgeon was a diehard 5-point Calvinist, who said that "I do not serve the god of the Arminians at all; I have nothing to do with him, and I do not bow down before the Baal they have set up; he is not my God, nor shall he ever be; I fear him not, nor tremble at his presence...The God that saith today and denieth tomorrow, that justifieth today and condemns the next...is no relation to my God in the least degree. He may be a relation of Ashtaroth or Baal, but Jehovah never was or can be his name." (I can't see an alternating preaching here.) Spurgeon adamantly preached against Arminianism, and rather than give you a linst of a hundred sermons or so to prove this, I'll simply refer you to this article and you can check the references for yourself. You can also browse through Spurgeon's Sermons to see such titles as "Free Will: A Slave", "The Immutability of God", "Particular Redemption", "Human Inability", and many others.

God Bless,

PL

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:54 pm
by puritan lad
puritan lad wrote:First of all, Calvin was French, not Swiss.
:oops: I need more sleep.

Calvin was indeed a Swiss Reformer :roll:

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:28 pm
by FFC
puritan lad wrote:
puritan lad wrote:First of all, Calvin was French, not Swiss.
:oops: I need more sleep.

Calvin was indeed a Swiss Reformer :roll:
Image

He just looks more French than Swiss. :wink:

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:33 pm
by Gman
With that nose, perhaps.. Maybe he was a frenchman that ate swiss cheese... :wink:

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:37 pm
by FFC
Gman wrote:With that nose, perhaps.. Maybe he ate swiss cheese... :wink:
Actually, PL was right. Calvin was a French theologian. Theopedia has the words "French/Swiss French Reformation" over his picture. It's all so confusing. :lol:

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:50 pm
by Gman

Probably his forefather migrated.

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:02 pm
by Oriental
I've got no clue except the possibility that Calvin was French in blood but Swiss in national identity, or the reverse. Probably his forefather migrated once.

Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:33 am
by puritan lad
Calvin was French. However, he was a Swiss Reformer, ie. He led the movement to Reform the Swiss Church, pastoring for a long time in Geneva. (I misread the original article).