Evidence for God from Science

didn't God put him to death?

Deuteronomy 18:20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."

21 You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?" 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

Thank you.

Christian2 wrote:didn't God put him to death?

Deuteronomy 18:20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."

21 You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?" 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

Thank you.

The commands of Duet 18:20 are in the context of the Israelite Community.

Mohammed was not in that community or subject to its laws. There was no Jewish/Christian community to which he was subject.

God does not strike down every false prophet. He warns his people to be wary of them and discerning to know which are true and which are false.

If God were to strike down every false prophet directly it would impact a lot of areas including the degree of free will and responsibility for one's own actions, that appear to have value and to be a motivator for why God allows things to happen in the manner he does.

Canuckster1127 wrote:

Christian2 wrote:didn't God put him to death?

Deuteronomy 18:20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."

21 You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?" 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

Thank you.

The commands of Duet 18:20 are in the context of the Israelite Community.

Mohammed was not in that community or subject to its laws. There was no Jewish/Christian community to which he was subject.

God does not strike down every false prophet. He warns his people to be wary of them and discerning to know which are true and which are false.

If God were to strike down every false prophet directly it would impact a lot of areas including the degree of free will and responsibility for one's own actions, that appear to have value and to be a motivator for why God allows things to happen in the manner he does.

Thank you for your response.

See bold above. I never would have thought of that.

I guess if we took the Scriptures literally, then Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell, Ellen G. White, and a lot of others should have been struck down too.

Christian2 wrote:I guess if we took the Scriptures literally, then Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell, Ellen G. White, and a lot of others should have been struck down too.

Hey wait! This isn't a matter of taking the Scriptures literally or not, is it? It is a matter of what is the actual message.

Joseph Smith, Cahrles Taze Russell, Ellen G. White, etc are no more subject to Deut 18:20 than we and anyone else are subject to the other national and ritual (as distinguished from moral) laws that were applied to the Israelites.

The Mosaic Covenant was given to a particular people at a particular time for a particular purpose. Yet that covenant describes for us the difference between good and evil (the moral component), and this moral aspect is anchored in the very nature of the God who is Holy. Paul, in Romans notes that this moral law, revealed most clearly in Torah, is nonetheless separate from Torah. The Gentiles, who did not have Moses, still understood the basics of right and wrong (Romans 2:14). This is what theologians have refer to as "Natural Law"-- it is most clearly evidenced in the human conscience. The moral aspects of Torah are still in effect because they are in accordance with the nature of God and in accordance with the moral laws that are woven into creation itself.

Not so the national and ritual laws. Hebrews is very careful to point out that these were merely shadows pointing to Christ. Paul, in Galatians (and most of his Epistles) demonstrates that these laws have fulfilled their purpose. They set Israel apart until the time when Messiah would make an end to racial divisions, creating a new people of God which encompasses every nation (in accord with God's first promise to Adam and Eve).

The coming of Jesus, the promised seed, marks the end of one age and the beginning of another - and the putting aside of one covenant for another, (the New Covenant which had been prophesied in advance by Jeremiah, Ezekiel and others). Otherwise we would still be having to stone to death our rebellious sons outside the city walls and not eat shellfish and that kind of thing - if they, along with killing false prophets, were God's moral laws that abide for all time.

Mohammad turned up six centuries after Christ, and just like the rest of us since Christ, he was never subject to the old redundant Mosaic Covenant.

This is not a literal as opposed to non-literal reading of the Old Testament, is it? What is the "non-literal" reading that would change this appreciation of the extent of Mosaic Law and the redemptive work of Christ?

Or have I messed up somewhere here?
(Captain Canuck, where are you?)

Hi Judah,

The Muslims say that since Muhammad was not put to death, then he was a real prophet. They take the verses literally.

Oh boy, that is real reverse thinking!

My son has not been stoned to death for rebelliousness, but I would have to be totally insane to believe that all the teenage tyranny he is putting us through is nothing but compliant sweetness and light!

Talk about irrational thinking...

Anyway, I now see how you mean it when you talk about "literal".

Judah wrote:Oh boy, that is real reverse thinking!

My son has not been stoned to death for rebelliousness, but I would have to be totally insane to believe that all the teenage tyranny he is putting us through is nothing but compliant sweetness and light!

Talk about irrational thinking...

Anyway, I now see how you mean it when you talk about "literal".

As you can see, I am still trying to answer the Muslims' questions.

Canuckster1127 was very helpful with his comments.

There is more to this.

If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and gives you a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spoke to you, saying, Let us go after other gods, which you have not known, and let us serve them; You shall not listen to the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proves you, to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul [Deuteronomy 13:1-3].

What name of God did Muhammad come in? Allah, not Yahweh.

Christian2 wrote:What name of God did Muhammad come in? Allah, not Yahweh.

Forgive me for the interjection but I have to make a small comment or clarification here. The word 'Allah' has always been associated with the god of Islam, I guess because even Moslems refer to their god as 'Allah' even when they speak English. Truth is, the word 'Allah' in Arabic, when literally translated, means God; same as the word Dieu in French means God and the word Dios in Spanish means God, the word Allah in Arabic means God.
So when I say the phrase 'Allah ysamhak', it literally translates to 'God forgive you' and not 'the Moslem god Allah forgive you'. So when an Arab is heard uttering the word 'Allah', it doesn't automatically mean he or she is referring to the Moslem god.

Again, sorry for the interruption. I just wanted to make that clear. Carry on now.

And Byblos, you are an Arab, I believe?
I remember you called yourself a Lebanese Christian, and you are an American too.

Allah was also the name of the Arabic moon god, the one with three daughters, and I know that Christians in Arabic countries call Yahweh by the name Allah.

It can sure be confusing!

Come to think of it, wasn't that exactly what Muhammad might have intended?

Judah wrote:And Byblos, you are an Arab, I believe?
I remember you called yourself a Lebanese Christian, and you are an American too.

Allah was also the name of the Arabic moon god, the one with three daughters, and I know that Christians in Arabic countries call Yahweh by the name Allah.

It can sure be confusing!

Correct Judah. That's why I tried to clear up some of the confusion (evidently I wasn't so successful ).

Judah wrote:Come to think of it, wasn't that exactly what Muhammad might have intended?

Quite possibly but that's really irrelevant. I am not claiming that the god of Islam is the same as our Christian God. In fact I am certain he isn't. I simply wanted to clarify the use of the word 'Allah'.

Byblos wrote: Correct Judah. That's why I tried to clear up some of the confusion (evidently I wasn't so successful ).

Hey, you were successful, Byblos.
I was just pointing out how confusing it can be to someone if they are not aware of those things, and then surmising that perhaps it was just what Muhammad may have had in mind... a touch of confusion to help relate his Allah to the Judeo-Christian Yahweh.
I know C2 knows all those things as well.
But I have talked with quite a few folk who have been very confused because they did not realize that, as you have pointed out, Allah is the same term used for each of those different deities.

Anyway, I hope nobody is confused (if they once were) on this point any longer.

Allah is not God's personal name. YHVH is.

Christian2 wrote:Allah is not God's personal name. YHVH is.

Agreed. And neither are Dieu, Dios, or God. That's the point I was trying to make, C2.

Eloh, Elah, Elohim, Eloah...

In fact, that's the first name of God you find in the Bible... In the beginning, Elohim... right?


Cognates to Allah, and ilah, between semitic languages.


Yhwh wasn't the only "name" of God in the Bible. Some Muslims say that "Allah" is a personal name, but more scholars are in agreement that it's just Arabic and that we can call upon God in any language. Allah swt has 99 names in the Qur'an. The Merciful, the Compasionate, the Peace, the Creator, etc.

The idea of a "personal name" isn't necessary, really.

The pagan Arabs had falsely ascribed daughters to Allah... this name of God existed in Arabic times before the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. The people had made lies about God, and Muhammad pbuh was correcting them.

Aviatrix,

I think that Allah is just the Arabic word for God.

The word "elohim" literally means "gods." It is used with this denotation, with the meaning of pagan or false gods almost 200 times in the Bible.

Moreover, the word is also used to refer to angels (Psalm 8:5), so its usage is not limited to deity. Thus, one can see that "elohim" is not the name of the true God, for false gods and angels are also said to be "elohim."

Exodus 3:15
God, furthermore, said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'The LORD [YHWH], the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations.

Exodus 6:3
and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty, but {by} My name, LORD [YHWH], I did not make Myself known to them.

Source: http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/ ... _god1.html

Shalom