Believe in God or go to Hell attitude - all wrong
Believe in God or go to Hell attitude - all wrong
If I was a God, the last thing I would want is to frighten people into believing in me by saying that the alternative is this bad place called Hell. it's like paying someone to like you etc.
I don't believe in God because I see no proof, only reasons not to believe. There being a God makes no sense to me. I believe that there is a scientific reason why we are all here and this God belief gives people something to cling on to - something to believe in.
In my experience, it is usually the worse off people who believe in God and all the commandments - because it makes them feel better for not having as much. The rest who are doing well and having a good time breaking the commandments are not likely to believe in them now are they?
I think that you get one chance in life to have a good time and if you spend too much of it living by the rules of God, you are going to miss out in the hope of the promise of something good when you are dead - which no-one can prove exists. To me, people who believe in God must have been brainwashed into his existence - how else can they believe - then just accept the word of others - yet, there are so many religions all with different beliefs and with different Gods - who's to say one is right and one is wrong?
If there was a God, why is he playing a game with us? I mean, I didn't choose to be born, yet i am to suffer a terrible fate at the end of my life if I believe what I read, because I choose not to accept a God. Why should I deserve that? Why doesn't he just show himself to us and let us all get on with out lives? If he made us as his pets or toys to watch and observe, that that is pretty crap given that eventually, he is going to allow most of us to go to Hell - who would do that and be thought of in a nice way?
Why to people pray? I hear that God does not interfere, hence 9/11 and other bad things, so what is the point of his existence? at least I know, mine, to have a good time while it lasts. I just feel sorry for the previous Pope who appeared to waste his whole life on something that doesn't exist.
I WILL believe that there is a God if he comes on down and shows himself. Why should the people of 2000 years ago get to see it for themselves in Jesus (if he was the son of God - just imagine him turning up today - locked in an asylum after 5 minutes) yet we have to imagine and have 'faith' - why should anyone expect me to take it on faith - WHY!?
I don't believe in God because I see no proof, only reasons not to believe. There being a God makes no sense to me. I believe that there is a scientific reason why we are all here and this God belief gives people something to cling on to - something to believe in.
In my experience, it is usually the worse off people who believe in God and all the commandments - because it makes them feel better for not having as much. The rest who are doing well and having a good time breaking the commandments are not likely to believe in them now are they?
I think that you get one chance in life to have a good time and if you spend too much of it living by the rules of God, you are going to miss out in the hope of the promise of something good when you are dead - which no-one can prove exists. To me, people who believe in God must have been brainwashed into his existence - how else can they believe - then just accept the word of others - yet, there are so many religions all with different beliefs and with different Gods - who's to say one is right and one is wrong?
If there was a God, why is he playing a game with us? I mean, I didn't choose to be born, yet i am to suffer a terrible fate at the end of my life if I believe what I read, because I choose not to accept a God. Why should I deserve that? Why doesn't he just show himself to us and let us all get on with out lives? If he made us as his pets or toys to watch and observe, that that is pretty crap given that eventually, he is going to allow most of us to go to Hell - who would do that and be thought of in a nice way?
Why to people pray? I hear that God does not interfere, hence 9/11 and other bad things, so what is the point of his existence? at least I know, mine, to have a good time while it lasts. I just feel sorry for the previous Pope who appeared to waste his whole life on something that doesn't exist.
I WILL believe that there is a God if he comes on down and shows himself. Why should the people of 2000 years ago get to see it for themselves in Jesus (if he was the son of God - just imagine him turning up today - locked in an asylum after 5 minutes) yet we have to imagine and have 'faith' - why should anyone expect me to take it on faith - WHY!?
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Re: Believe in God or go to Hell attitude - all wrong
Hi Mark,mark2123 wrote:I believe that there is a scientific reason why we are all here ...
So much to say here. You have an extraordinarily warped view of Christianity, but more about that later.
I am more interested in your comment above. What is the scientific reason that we are all here?
Acts 17:24-25 (NIV)
"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. [25] And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else."
//www.omnipotentgrace.org
//christianskepticism.blogspot.com
"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. [25] And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else."
//www.omnipotentgrace.org
//christianskepticism.blogspot.com
Hi,
Not so much a scientific reason, but scientific explanation as to how we came to being - by the combination of chemicals billions of years ago that learned to reproduce and then evolve into what we all are today. He just happened - much as the big bang did and everything else is just history.
Forgive the way I posted as I did - it was to quickly get my thoughts down in writing while they were in my head. It still stands though that there are a lot more reasons not to believe in God than there are to believe - as far as I can see it. And, it is not logical for him to hide, expect us to just believe and punish us for not doing so - like I chose to be here in the first place, NOT!
Not so much a scientific reason, but scientific explanation as to how we came to being - by the combination of chemicals billions of years ago that learned to reproduce and then evolve into what we all are today. He just happened - much as the big bang did and everything else is just history.
Forgive the way I posted as I did - it was to quickly get my thoughts down in writing while they were in my head. It still stands though that there are a lot more reasons not to believe in God than there are to believe - as far as I can see it. And, it is not logical for him to hide, expect us to just believe and punish us for not doing so - like I chose to be here in the first place, NOT!
Last edited by mark2123 on Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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So you have faith in something that "just happened"? It is "just history"?mark2123 wrote:Hi,
Not so much a scientific reason, but scientific explanation as to how we came to being - my the combination of chemicals billions of years ago that learned to reproduce and then evolve into what we all are today. He just happened - much as the big bang did and everything else is just history
But why did it just happen? Why is there something instead of nothing? Where did it all come from? How can chemicals "learn to reproduce?"
Ok, so what would you regard as evidence for the existence of God?It still stands though that there are a lot more reasons not to believe in God than there are to believe - as far as I can see it. And, it is not logical for him to hide, expect us to just believe and punish us for not doing so - like I chose to be here in the first place, NOT!
Acts 17:24-25 (NIV)
"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. [25] And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else."
//www.omnipotentgrace.org
//christianskepticism.blogspot.com
"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. [25] And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else."
//www.omnipotentgrace.org
//christianskepticism.blogspot.com
Re: Believe in God or go to Hell attitude - all wrong
I agree. I do not believe the Bible presents such a God.mark2123 wrote:If I was a God, the last thing I would want is to frighten people into believing in me by saying that the alternative is this bad place called Hell. it's like paying someone to like you etc.
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Re: Believe in God or go to Hell attitude - all wrong
Whether you believe in God or not, you cannot possibly believe that the only purpose in life is to have a good time. The world is a crowded place, it is not just you. I suspect you are young.mark2123 wrote:In my experience, it is usually the worse off people who believe in God and all the commandments - because it makes them feel better for not having as much. The rest who are doing well and having a good time breaking the commandments are not likely to believe in them now are they?
I think that you get one chance in life to have a good time and if you spend too much of it living by the rules of God, you are going to miss out in the hope of the promise of something good when you are dead - which no-one can prove exists.
It is not length of life, but depth of life. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
I suspect you are arrogant. From the day we are born, we have x number of days to live. I believe that everyone should attempt to have a good time whilst on the planet and that includes helping others if they wish to do so (many people, including me, get satisfaction and enjoyment from helping others, hence, having a good time).
Re: Believe in God or go to Hell attitude - all wrong
What do you think the Bible presents then? Because simplistically, unless I have got it all wrong, if I don't believe in God, I am going to Hell, which in effect, is this blackmail/buy love thing.Fortigurn wrote:I agree. I do not believe the Bible presents such a God.mark2123 wrote:If I was a God, the last thing I would want is to frighten people into believing in me by saying that the alternative is this bad place called Hell. it's like paying someone to like you etc.
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If your idea of a good time is helping others, then I retract my statement.mark2123 wrote:I suspect you are arrogant. From the day we are born, we have x number of days to live. I believe that everyone should attempt to have a good time whilst on the planet and that includes helping others if they wish to do so (many people, including me, get satisfaction and enjoyment from helping others, hence, having a good time).
=)
It is not length of life, but depth of life. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Re: Believe in God or go to Hell attitude - all wrong
You are right - there is a scientific reason why we all here. Funnily enough it points to an all powerful intelligent creator. If you dont buy that - then please explain to me all the fine tuning attributes of this universe that makes it perfect for life. Explain to me how that all came about by chance.mark2123 wrote:If I was a God, the last thing I would want is to frighten people into believing in me by saying that the alternative is this bad place called Hell. it's like paying someone to like you etc.
I don't believe in God because I see no proof, only reasons not to believe. There being a God makes no sense to me. I believe that there is a scientific reason why we are all here and this God belief gives people something to cling on to - something to believe in.
In my experience, it is usually the worse off people who believe in God and all the commandments - because it makes them feel better for not having as much. The rest who are doing well and having a good time breaking the commandments are not likely to believe in them now are they?
I think that you get one chance in life to have a good time and if you spend too much of it living by the rules of God, you are going to miss out in the hope of the promise of something good when you are dead - which no-one can prove exists. To me, people who believe in God must have been brainwashed into his existence - how else can they believe - then just accept the word of others - yet, there are so many religions all with different beliefs and with different Gods - who's to say one is right and one is wrong?
If there was a God, why is he playing a game with us? I mean, I didn't choose to be born, yet i am to suffer a terrible fate at the end of my life if I believe what I read, because I choose not to accept a God. Why should I deserve that? Why doesn't he just show himself to us and let us all get on with out lives? If he made us as his pets or toys to watch and observe, that that is pretty [poop] given that eventually, he is going to allow most of us to go to Hell - who would do that and be thought of in a nice way?
Why to people pray? I hear that God does not interfere, hence 9/11 and other bad things, so what is the point of his existence? at least I know, mine, to have a good time while it lasts. I just feel sorry for the previous Pope who appeared to waste his whole life on something that doesn't exist.
I WILL believe that there is a God if he comes on down and shows himself. Why should the people of 2000 years ago get to see it for themselves in Jesus (if he was the son of God - just imagine him turning up today - locked in an asylum after 5 minutes) yet we have to imagine and have 'faith' - why should anyone expect me to take it on faith - WHY!?
You say have a good life and be done with it. Well fine - but let me tell without a God everything the human race does is absolutely futile. Everything you do is futile and totally meaningless - because in the end you and your "Charitable" work will be forgotten, because there will be nothing to remember it. In your words we are a pointless fluke, an enoromous tradegy of nature that has been given an awareness of our own mortality and existence - the cruelest joke of all is on us, because in the end it all means nothing.
The universe is far to amazing a thing to believe that for a second - the earth is far too amazing a thing to believe that. This is not brainwashing as you so arrogantly put - this is common sense and logic. Do your research and see for your self where the scientific evidence leads at least before you make pointless comments like the one above.
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You did not answer my previous questions, so let me try this.mark2123 wrote:I suspect you are arrogant. From the day we are born, we have x number of days to live. I believe that everyone should attempt to have a good time whilst on the planet and that includes helping others if they wish to do so (many people, including me, get satisfaction and enjoyment from helping others, hence, having a good time).
For some, raping babies is a good time, and it gives them great satisfaction. Is that right?
Acts 17:24-25 (NIV)
"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. [25] And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else."
//www.omnipotentgrace.org
//christianskepticism.blogspot.com
"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. [25] And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else."
//www.omnipotentgrace.org
//christianskepticism.blogspot.com
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Also,
What biochemical process can account for "common sense" and "logic". How is the resulting logic from the firing off of your neurons any more significant than that of anyone else?
What biochemical process can account for "common sense" and "logic". How is the resulting logic from the firing off of your neurons any more significant than that of anyone else?
"To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect." - JOHN OWEN
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Re: Believe in God or go to Hell attitude - all wrong
Apart from the fact that 'sense' does not exist without God, look here.mark2123 wrote:I don't believe in God because I see no proof, only reasons not to believe. There being a God makes no sense to me.
Demonstrably false. Religion has never been something for the poor people. In fact, Christianity had a lot of converts among the elite from its beginning.mark2123 wrote:In my experience, it is usually the worse off people who believe in God and all the commandments - because it makes them feel better for not having as much. The rest who are doing well and having a good time breaking the commandments are not likely to believe in them now are they?
Brainwashed? Ah, it is so good to talk to a sensible person like you for a change. It may shock you to know that some intelligent atheists are converted, like C.S. Lewis, Alister McGrath (if I recall correctly), and Glenn Miller. Come back when you've beaten these guys at philosophy or tweaked your opinions a little.mark2123 wrote:I think that you get one chance in life to have a good time and if you spend too much of it living by the rules of God, you are going to miss out in the hope of the promise of something good when you are dead - which no-one can prove exists. To me, people who believe in God must have been brainwashed into his existence - how else can they believe - then just accept the word of others - yet, there are so many religions all with different beliefs and with different Gods - who's to say one is right and one is wrong?
Humans are sent to Hell not because they didn't believe in God, but because they sinned. Lustful sexual fantasies and hate are sin, as well as not worshipping God the way He deserves. Have you got a clean record?mark2123 wrote:If there was a God, why is he playing a game with us? I mean, I didn't choose to be born, yet i am to suffer a terrible fate at the end of my life if I believe what I read, because I choose not to accept a God. Why should I deserve that?
Also see What kind of choice is THIS?!
We are not His pets or toys; He wants us to be His children.mark2123 wrote:Why doesn't he just show himself to us and let us all get on with out lives? If he made us as his pets or toys to watch and observe, that that is pretty [poop] given that eventually, he is going to allow most of us to go to Hell - who would do that and be thought of in a nice way?
He did show Himself, 2000 years ago, in the form of Jesus. Why doesn't He do so again? Well, what is 'showing'? Simply giving a glimpse of Himself? Appearing in the form of Jesus to have a talk with everyone? What would He say? Maybe something like, 'Hello, I'm God, all you need to know about me is in the Bible. Please read it. Bye.' Now maybe some people just wouldn't believe it, others wouldn't follow His commands, others would complain about His alleged 'cruelty' in the Bible, and comparatively few would believe. Hmm...sounds suspiciously like it is now. By the way, how often would He have to appear? Every 20 years? Or only once, so that those people could tell their children, and so on? Well, that's what happened 2000 years ago, if you have to believe Christians.
See here on prayers. In summary: God does answer prayers, but not every prayer. He is sovereign, in this as in everything.mark2123 wrote:Why to people pray? I hear that God does not interfere, hence 9/11 and other bad things, so what is the point of his existence? at least I know, mine, to have a good time while it lasts. I just feel sorry for the previous Pope who appeared to waste his whole life on something that doesn't exist.
'Faith' is not blind. Our faith rests on this single question: how reliable is Jesus? The answer is, very reliable.mark2123 wrote:I WILL believe that there is a God if he comes on down and shows himself. Why should the people of 2000 years ago get to see it for themselves in Jesus (if he was the son of God - just imagine him turning up today - locked in an asylum after 5 minutes) yet we have to imagine and have 'faith' - why should anyone expect me to take it on faith - WHY!?
The Bible says they were "willingly ignorant". In the Greek, this means "be dumb on purpose". (Kent Hovind)
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Re: Believe in God or go to Hell attitude - all wrong
Nice work there Silvertusk.. This reminds me of the film "About Schmidt". Schmidt makes an observation about his own mortality. As he stated in the movie... "When I die, only a few people will remember me. When they're all dead, it will be as though I never existed."Silvertusk wrote:You say have a good life and be done with it. Well fine - but let me tell without a God everything the human race does is absolutely futile. Everything you do is futile and totally meaningless - because in the end you and your "Charitable" work will be forgotten, because there will be nothing to remember it. In your words we are a pointless fluke, an enoromous tradegy of nature that has been given an awareness of our own mortality and existence - the cruelest joke of all is on us, because in the end it all means nothing.
mark2123, unfortunately I think most people forget that God is the only real friend they've got... He loves us even more than we do.
From an earlier post: "One way to prove that God doesn't exist is through the theory of evolution without any divine intervention. So far, this still hasn't been proven, (just ask any real honest scientist or evolutionist)... Evolution is still then a theory, not a fact that is still in the works just like creationism or ID... To this very day, nobody knows how a mixture of non-living chemicals can transform itself into a living cell. Evolution claims that many things can evolve through natural selection... However, this poses a problem.. First, how is natural selection going to start since it needs living matter and second what is natural selection going to select out of a mixture of non-living chemicals in order to get life started? In other words, we don't even have an egg yet to prove that a chicken was born out of it... Does that make any sense? It's all merely conjecture and speculation... "
Both views evolution and God are a matter of faith.. Why are you playing Russian roulette with your soul? There is absolutely no reason to do this..
Perhaps you should read this too...
Quote: "Will all those people who have never heard of Jesus Christ be sent to hell? First we must note that the Bible says God will judge all people righteously. It seems there will be a stricter judgment for those who have rejected the gospel of Jesus Christ than those who have never heard."
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... heard.html
Or are all people good?
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... egood.html
Its your life... Why throw it all away? For what reason?
Go in piece...
G -
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
Re: Believe in God or go to Hell attitude - all wrong
Gman wrote:Go in piece
Hey Gman, did you mean to say 'go in peace' or was that a Freudian slip?
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.
Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.