Rick Warren & Ted Haggard

[Turgonian]

I know that megachurches and 'seeker-sensitive churches' are a growing phenomenon in America. (We don't have mega in our dear little country, and seekers mainly seek on their own, at home.) I asked Puritan Lad about pastor Rick Warren once and was surprised to hear PL call him a 'strong Christian', albeit with some defects. I was surprised because a website I used to visit, Crossroad, accused him of being responsible for a lot of evil within the church.

The same goes for Ted Haggard. Not only did he turn out to be a practising homosexual, but his teaching was not bent on scriptural truth -- rather the reverse.

Would you check out the articles and give some comments?

The Emerging Global 'Church'

Ted Haggard's Lies

[Judah]

A thorough and very interesting critique of Rick Warren's books is provided here by Jim Owen, Sr. who has this to say (and more):

This book [The Purpose Driven Life] is well written and makes some good points. Yet, the solutions the author puts forth in order to accomplish the goal of successful Christian living have a fatal flaw typical of most books on this subject today. While the author denies that his book is a self-help book, that is exactly what it is. In it, the author sows the seeds of failure in the lives of earnest, well-meaning believers.

I believe Rick Warren is a sincere Christian brother. Yet, I must take issue with him regarding the most basic fault in this book: where is the Lord Jesus Christ? Thus my criticisms will not be leveled at him, but at his ideas of how a child of God should live the Christian life.

Turgy, you said that... "I was surprised because a website I used to visit, Crossroad, accused him of being responsible for a lot of evil within the church."
What exactly was the "evil" that Rick Warren is being accused of within the church? Did you think it was "evil" or just other people's different opinions on the issues?

[FFC]

I read Warren's book and it didn't do much for me. I too got the impression that it was a self help book. However, regardless of Mr. Owen's critique, I have met many who were greatly blessed by His insights.

Mr. Warren surely could have made it much more clear that our source of strength and victory in our christian life comes only from Christ and Him alone, and not by striving and doing, but as always there is a fine line there when it comes to presenting the principles of God's word.

Having said that, I do agree wholehearted with Mr. Owen's concluding remarks.

The lesson is plain, once you leave Christ, even a little bit, and replace Him with something else, as good as that something may seem to be, you are slowly but surely moving away from Him. And, if we continue on this road long enough, we will have forgotten the place Christ should be in the church and we won't even know He's missing.

[Turgonian]

Hmm... Basically, it came down to spreading a false, postmodern Gospel with occult and New Age elements and thereby assisting UNESCO to build its totalitarian One World Order.

Thanks for the comments, guys.

[puritan lad]

I'm no close follower of Rick Warren. From the little I've seen from him on TV, he appears to be a strong Christian, albeit with some bad theology. As far as his eternal state, that'll be up to God. He may very well be a wolf in sheep's clothing. That much I don't know.

Again, I based my statement on a very limited knowledge of the man's personal life, and I'm certainly no Warren expert. I certainly don't care for his book.

[Canuckster1127]

I'm no close follower of Rick Warren. From the little I've seen from him on TV, he appears to be a strong Christian, albeit with some bad theology. As far as his eternal state, that'll be up to God. He may very well be a wolf in sheep's clothing. That much I don't know.

Again, I based my statement on a very limited knowledge of the man's personal life, and I'm certainly no Warren expert. I certainly don't care for his book.

I'm familiar personally with Rick Warren but I have read most of what he has written and was familiar with his philosophy of ministry before he became popular in the general Christian forum.

In terms of practical ministry, I have a great deal of appreciation for him. I believe in his Church he's built a ministry that reaches out to unchurched people bringing them to Christ and that the practical means of meeting people where their needs are and loving and caring for them before they come to Christ is a reflection of how Christ himself did ministry.

I understand the debate and problems with seeker sensitive type ministries and I share some of the those concerns. Success and numbers are not absolute arguments in favor of anything. I think Warren is better than most in striving for some balance and I believe he has things to offer that challange traditional Christian ministry which is good as long as the eternal is not compromised by the immediate.

[puritan lad]

One of my friends gave me a copy of the book. When I read at the very beginning that I was to put my Bible away for 40 days and read his book instead, I knew it would be trouble.

[Mr. Hyde]

The Purpose Driven Life was ok. I wouldn't for one second think to replace it with anything Spurgeon or Luther have penned...but it was ok. Sure...I had some problems with the book (just like everyone else)...but it did make some good points.
Warren's teachings on the church were excellent. I went through the 40 Days of Community and I really liked what he had to say. The problem was that it became excessively repetitious. It could have easily been cut down into 20 days and gotten the same message across. Either way...his points were really good, I thought. Despite the fact that he is the pastor of a mega church....he "runs" his church the way a mega church should be "run". It's not one giant church that meets every Sunday and provides no accountability like so many churches out there. No...his church is really a lot of small churches all brought together for worship and a sermon once a week.
He's all about accountability and ensuring that there isn't a single person in his church that only comes once a week for the sermon. He makes sure that they become part of the body.