Evidence for God from Science

I appreciate the help with the subject of the slaughter of the Midianite children.

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/midian.html

And I've found information on the Caananites and others.

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/qamorite.html
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/rbut ... outhinasia
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/qkilisak.html

These passages that refer to "war crimes" took me a while to find answers to; thank God I cared enough to find them. All you have to do is hear, "Hey. Did you know that God ordered the deaths of thousands of children?" and it sticks with you and it's hard to shake.

I REALLY REALLY think you should either provide a direct link to these pages on this site, or even write your own. I'm glad you have the page on why the OT God seems so cruel, but it could use a LOT more, because these gruesome passages are the #1 form of firepower that Athiests use, and I'm sure there's a poor guy out there who needs answers but can't find them so easy. The thinktank pages are very detailled so I hope you can do just as good! Thanks!

for the links. I had already read a couple of them because as you said:

I'm sure there's a poor guy out there who needs answers but can't find them so easy.

and I used to be "a poor guy out there." Many people do not take the time to research and find answers.

I think the Christian Think-Tank is an excellent site. I've read a lot of their articles.

Your post reminds me of a conversation I recently had with my brother. He thinks that the God of the Old Testament is not the God of the New Testament and he bases it on the "cruelty" in the OT and as he said, "My God does not believe in the pagan practice of human sacrifice." He thinks that the OT God approves of human sacrifice.

Thanks again.

Many people do not take the time to research and find answers.

I couldn't disagree more! There's so much stuff that I am still learning about even though it's been with me for a while. I didn't find out about the whole Midianite story until I became a member and asked, then I was booted off for sounding like an ass, then I asked again - and even still, it took a little while for the subject to be addressed.

I had emailed Rich Deem twice on the subject without response. I came so close to saying "Hell with it!" So I have to say again that I think the article on the "God of the Old Testament" should include those links. Maybe it's 'cause I used to be an Athiest, and I have more empathy for those who don't want to search endlessly for explanations to simple questions.

On a lesser note, the Think Tank site makes it kinda hard to find these specific articles (even though I already know they exist).

Err... if I remember correctly, the first time you raised it, you did so in a way as though there was no answer and such was proof Christianity is wrong. This lead me to conclude you were Atheist, and not interested in a response, hence its removal. Then you made your intentions more known to me, and the issue was raised more appropriately, and was dealt with as such.

Now if someone turned from God because they did not resolve their own doubts, the fault lies with themselves. We are told to seek, and we are also told to love God with our minds. All of us here have access to the Internet, and many doubts can be resolved by a simple search. The thing is, you didn't say to hell with it, but chose to look for and listen to answers. On the other hand, many non-Christians who use an argument that God in the OT is unloving and cruel, do not care to find a response let alone listen to one. To receive a response is not what they desire, as such would take away from the purpose of their presenting it in the first place, which is to try discredit Christianity. You don't believe me, go to a place where many hard skeptics and atheists post, bring up the issue with them, and then provide the solution. I bet you won't make much progress. And the reason is because their hearts are hard. They can't take in the responses, nor do they want to.

I would agree with you these links should perhaps be placed on the website. While it might be sad you didn't come across answers sooner, perhaps you weren't ready to hear them? I wouldn't try blaming others (if you are) for your not having come across them sooner though, as ultimately we are responsible for seeking out answers to our own doubts. But it would be helpful if indepth responses such as these, were more easy to come by as you say. I'll see whether Rich is willing.

Kurieuo.

Kurieuo wrote:Now if someone turned from God because they did not resolve their own doubts, the fault lies with themselves.

No! It's not their fault! It's not their fault!!! (sobs uncontrollably)

You don't believe me, go to a place where many hard skeptics and atheists post, bring up the issue with them, and then provide the solution.

Well, those guys had a falling out with their daddy, and they feel the need to rebel against God at all cost...I'm talking about regular people.

I bet you won't make much progress.

I haven't. But I suggest others try...just to let them know there's another world out there. It doesn't matter if they regect it at first, you just need to get it out there.

http://samharris.org/

I used to say, very passionately, "Everywhere religion has gone, it has done nothing but cause pain, and suffering, and sorrow!" Thanks to men like yourselves, I can now see things much clearer. Thank you.

Speaking of links, I would highly suggested adding Mike Griffith's Evolution page to the list of links.

http://ourworld.cs.com/mikegriffith1/id49.htm

After all, I found GodandScience through his page!

Shirtless, I think I'm beginning to understand more where you're coming from on a lot of issues. I can't begin to imagine what it would be like to come to Christianity from Atheism, and then begin tackling all the issues and positions I once sided with in a new light. Although in some ways I'm envious as it has got to be a little thrilling.

Shirtless wrote:Well, those guys had a falling out with their daddy, and they feel the need to rebel against God at all cost...I'm talking about regular people.

I heard on the radio the other day, that men at one prison were offered the chance to send cards to their mothers on Mother's day. A lot took up the opportunity. Then they were offered the same chance when it came to Father's day, and not one did. I think there may be a lot of truth to your words, not that I'm drawing a comparison between Atheists and criminals Just that people falling out with their daddy (and broken families in general) may produce a lot of hardness in people. So you may not be too far wrong.

Kurieuo.

Kurieuo wrote:Although in some ways I'm envious as it has got to be a little thrilling.

Are you kidding me? I feel like Saul/Paul when he was converted. Me finding the truth made my heart race a million beats per minute! Which is unusual because my heart usually beats a thousand per minute....I gotta see a doctor.

A guy on one of the atheist websites is now a deist after being a christian for many years. He did the reverse of Shirtless and now rejects christianity. One of his major complaints is the "cruelty" of god in the OT. Of course I disagree with his assessment. I read the OT and don't have a problem with gods sovereignty and justice and I trust that he will do what is right according to his purpose.

I think it's all about our willingness to humble ourselves before god and it's clear that some people can't do that no matter how much logic/truth/reasoning you throw at them.

Just my 2-cents.

Man! It makes me ill knowing how close I came to being a non-believer. I get so upset knowing that there are people out in the world who are turning away from God, not because they're bad, not because they don't want to see the light, but simply because they're decent, moral human beings.

Shirtless wrote:Man! It makes me ill knowing how close I came to being a non-believer. I get so upset knowing that there are people out in the world who are turning away from God, not because they're bad, not because they don't want to see the light, but simply because they're decent, moral human beings.

What can we do besides pray that a small Flicker of faith will appear in them and that they will be bothered to really investigate for themselves instead of taking others word for it and sit back saying I don't believe.