Evidence for God from Science

with a recent discussion with an atheist, he raised these contradictions:
Matthew and luke have contradicting family trees of joeseph, one is 42 generations, the other is 28, and there is very little overlap in the names in the generations.
This was to show that the saviour was born a decendant of david as old testament prophecy predicted, which joeseph was supposedly a decendant, if david existed. However, the other gospel says that the saviour was born to a virgin. How can the prophecy be fufilled if Joeseph is not jesus' biological father?

Both Matthew and luke state that Joeseph and Mary had to go to Nazareth, this is because the old testament prophecy that the saviour would be born there. The gospels contradict eachother on how Mary and Joeseph get there though. One has them living there long before the birth, the other that they had to travel there for a census. The census was said by the bible to be an empire wide census, and no such census occured. There was a local census six years after the supposed birth of jesus, it was for taxation purposes. Six years after the birth of jesus, Herod was already dead. Herod's killing of male children was the reason why Joeseph, Mary, and Jesus were said to leave Nazareth

Can anyone help out? I would be appreciated.

My advice to you is bow out of the conversation as soon as possible.

But if you think that is bad advice, be aware you are going to have a tough time defending against the atheists resources unless you are fully equipt for such a battle. You need to be on top of historical resources as well as scriptural sources because soon he will reject the Biblical account as not valid. In fact the first step of discrediting them (at least in his mind) has just begun. If he can discredit the Bible, then he will not accept anything you claim from scripture.

There are explanations of the differing genealogies.

Mary and Joseph travel to Bethlehem, not Nazareth because the prophecies said he would be born there, not Nazareth. And the issue of Quirinius and the census is a very difficult argument. You may do well to go to http://www.infidels.org (see: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ ... inius.html ) or other atheist websites, read their materials and then see if you feel equipt and capable of refuting their positions. You can bet your atheist friend will be using them.

This is my opinion and take it for what its worth. If you press forward, others here, I am sure, can help.

Hello friend!

I did a quick research and I found this:

http://www.bcbsr.com/topics/ntprob.html#GENEAOLOGY

I hope it helps. On a side note, I would like to add that we shouldnt worry much about the contradictions. In most cases the skeptic lacks basic information about how to read Scripture. There are many apologetics sites out there taking care of the "contradictions". However I would follow Monk's advice and stop debating.

If you need any further help just ask

Thanks for that link L/T.
I will keep in my files.

Please uneedHim tell us if the links provided were useful and if you will keep debating.

Forum Monk wrote:Thanks for that link L/T.
I will keep in my files.

You are welcome

Monk, I replyed you in the " A new Way of looking at Genesis" thread. Could you please check it out? I would like to end our discussion and let that thread die.
Here be the link:

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... php?t=3126

PS: I'm sorry for being off-topic but I wanted to enjoy the opportunity. Thank you.

I have seen your reply, L/T..OK I will go there and perhaps we can finalize our thoughts.

As soon as I get used to this new forum format. They must have upgraded to the deluxe version.

(and apparently now, its possible to upload directly to the forum????)

Thanks. Actually I was showing this guy the historical tests for a document. (internal and external) and than I showed him how we know the yNT is corrupted (24000 manuscripts and quotes from the early church fathers) and than showed him taticus quote as well as other non-Christian sources, and that just blew him away. He kind of lost site of the contradiction argument. But thanks for the link.

Very good. If you need something else just ask and I'm pretty sure someone here will give you the answer. God's word suffer many attacks, but all are answered. It tells you something about Scripture. It was written for centuries and it does not contradicts itself ( not in the ancient Greek and Hebrew writings.)

Hi uneedHim,

Sounds like you were fine, and I think what you did was better than debating the few apparent contradictions he pointed out.

Rather than defend inspiration and inerrancy (which are theological and Christian notions), it is better to work with the tools accepted by secularism or the person. He had probably never thought about treating the Bible as anything but a holy religious inerrant book, so treating it as a historical document could actually make it become more real, and be something which still is still relevant regardless of any further Christians beliefs like inerrancy (which although important, are non-essential to one's acceptance of Christ).

Kurieuo

Some numbers contradictions are the results of adding. But whitout changing the context :

"Then it became"

I once was a skeptic and found that the mistake that most skeptics make is to accept the modern translations of the scriptures (including the KJV). Many atheists make good points about the modern contradictions but most of them stop studying and simply give up.
The best sources are the oldest ones. I have a collection of PowerPoint Presentations on a website and also speak of the genealogies of Jesus. There is no contradiction.

Another good resource to use when studying chronologies is the Diatesseron. Tatian compiled all four Aramaic Gospels together and formed the Diatesseron. Although the early church looked down on this, it is still a good historical and chronological reference. I believe if you read it, it will make more sense.

God bless, meforevidence

My webpage: http://meforevidence.googlepages.com/

Read the Diatesseron: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... saron.html

Other References to the oldest scriptures: http://www.geocities.com/billykitchens1 ... 7295163015

Hope it helps. I am also updating many other "difficulties' such as:

1. Who killed Goliath
2. The Priest Jesus speaks of during the time of David.
3. Where was Aaron buried?

I appreciate any references and feedback.

uneedHim wrote:with a recent discussion with an atheist, he raised these contradictions:
Matthew and luke have contradicting family trees of joeseph, one is 42 generations, the other is 28, and there is very little overlap in the names in the generations.
This was to show that the saviour was born a decendant of david as old testament prophecy predicted, which joeseph was supposedly a decendant, if david existed. However, the other gospel says that the saviour was born to a virgin. How can the prophecy be fufilled if Joeseph is not jesus' biological father?

Both Matthew and luke state that Joeseph and Mary had to go to Nazareth, this is because the old testament prophecy that the saviour would be born there. The gospels contradict eachother on how Mary and Joeseph get there though. One has them living there long before the birth, the other that they had to travel there for a census. The census was said by the bible to be an empire wide census, and no such census occured. There was a local census six years after the supposed birth of jesus, it was for taxation purposes. Six years after the birth of jesus, Herod was already dead. Herod's killing of male children was the reason why Joeseph, Mary, and Jesus were said to leave Nazareth

Can anyone help out? I would be appreciated.

Matthew 1:1-16 Genealogy of Christ through Joseph

Luke 3: 23-38 Genealogy of Christ through Mary (Joseph name at the beginning due to Legal reasons of the times.)

Joseph is Christ's Father by Law not biological father but his father none the less.
How could prophecy be full filled this way? Because it was the way God chose to fulfill prophecy.



I will get back to you on the rest, I need to research it.

uneedHim,

Here is an excellent link that deals with numerous alleged discrepancies brought up by atheists and skeptics:

http://www.apologeticspress.org/allegeddiscrepancies/


This link specifically addresses the contradictions of the geneaology found in Matthew and Luke:

http://www.bcbsr.com/topics/ntprob.html#GENEAOLOGY