Evidence for God from Science

If God's grace is so irresistible why does it take so much fire and brimstone preaching to convince the elect to believe in Him?

FFC wrote:If God's grace is so irresistible why does it take so much fire and brimstone preaching to convince the elect to believe in Him?

Who says it does?

Canuckster1127 wrote:

FFC wrote:If God's grace is so irresistible why does it take so much fire and brimstone preaching to convince the elect to believe in Him?

Who says it does?

To beat the out of before elect is elected to become
-
-
-

B. W. wrote:

Canuckster1127 wrote:

FFC wrote:If God's grace is so irresistible why does it take so much fire and brimstone preaching to convince the elect to believe in Him?

Who says it does?

To beat the out of before elect is elected to become
-
-
-

OK that just confused me

Canuckster1127 wrote:

FFC wrote:If God's grace is so irresistible why does it take so much fire and brimstone preaching to convince the elect to believe in Him?

Who says it does?

C. H. Spurgoen, John Owen, John Piper...

FFC wrote:

Canuckster1127 wrote:

FFC wrote:If God's grace is so irresistible why does it take so much fire and brimstone preaching to convince the elect to believe in Him?

Who says it does?

C. H. Spurgoen, John Owen, John Piper...

Here is a short Wikipedia version of Irresistible Grace for those not understanding this doctrine.

Any comments on this subject?
-
-
-

FFC wrote:

Canuckster1127 wrote:

FFC wrote:If God's grace is so irresistible why does it take so much fire and brimstone preaching to convince the elect to believe in Him?

Who says it does?

C. H. Spurgoen, John Owen, John Piper...

I forgot the great Jonathon Edwards.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is, if God's grace is irresistible, why does it seem like He has to put so much effort into drawing the elect to Himself. If He spoke the world into existence, surely He could change a persons heart with just a word....without the sermons and threats of eternal hell.

FFC wrote: I guess what I'm trying to ask is, if God's grace is irresistible, why does it seem like He has to put so much effort into drawing the elect to Himself. If He spoke the world into existence, surely He could change a persons heart with just a word....without the sermons and threats of eternal hell.

In fact it is the "Word" that elects - the Word of God has a purpose and does what? God is faithful and will perform His word. What is it he say's to us - to all?

The Doctrines of both 'Irresistible Grace' and 'Prevenient Grace' came in a day and age under a philosophic mindset of an era long past. Both need a reawaking to the power of God's word. Maybe then, grace can stop this doctrinarian infighting.

Without the 'Word' - none could have ever been saved...
-
-
-

Ah, but HIs ways are unique to each person. To some He whispers, to some He yells, to some He continually calls, to some, like Paul, it may only take on brilliant moment of seeing the light. Some may have multiple peole invovled in the calling, others may have nobody. But to those He calls, however He calls, it is irresistible. (if we didn't, in some measure, believe this, then why do we beseech God in prayer concenring those we hope are saved?)

The preachers you mentioned just speak the truth. Our sin is deplorable in God's eyes and that must be preached. We are in need of a savior. We bring nothing to this relationship but our sinful selves in need of cleansing.

Much of the preaching today is so wimpy that some really do not understand the nature of our sin, the gravity of our position, the enormity of Christ's sacrifice and His love for us.

I heard this question the other day.

"If there was no mercy or grace to be saved and we were all sent to where we deserve to go, Would God still be glorified?"

What do yall think?

FFC wrote:If God's grace is so irresistible why does it take so much fire and brimstone preaching to convince the elect to believe in Him?

God has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills he hardens.

How does God convince the elect? Usually by the foolishness of preaching. God doesn't require this, it's just the method He chooses to use.

Keep in mind that all of the threats and plagues failed to convince Pharoah to believe. Instead He was hardened, in order to fulfill God's purpose (Romans 9:17-18). Jesus and John the Baptist preached fire and brimstone sermons that make Jonathan Edwards look like Robert Schuller (see Matthew 3 and 23), yet only a small minority of the Pharisees believed.

Fire and Brimstone preaching is necessary, because it is truth, regardless of the results. (Isaiah 55:10-11)

YLTYLT wrote:I heard this question the other day.

"If there was no mercy or grace to be saved and we were all sent to where we deserve to go, Would God still be glorified?"

What do yall think?

Yes. God gets glory in the salvation of His people, and He gets glory out of the destruction of the wicked. That is God's purpose for everything, to glorify Himself.

PL Wrote:

YLTYLT wrote:
I heard this question the other day.

"If there was no mercy or grace to be saved and we were all sent to where we deserve to go, Would God still be glorified?"

What do yall think?

Yes. God gets glory in the salvation of His people, and He gets glory out of the destruction of the wicked. That is God's purpose for everything, to glorify Himself.

So in this theoretical instance (where everyone went where they deserved) would this mean that people that end up in hell give God the glory. Or does it mean that God gives himself glory? Or Both?

Actually, those who go to heaven don't "get what they deserve". We all deserve Hell. That is what is so amazing about amazing grace, that it saved a wretch like me.

God gives glory to Himself in all things. That is His purpose. Those in hell will plea for His mercy, but it will fall on His deaf ears as He will laugh at theor calamity, and mock when their terror comes.

Part of the glory in our salvation is knowing just what He saved us from. Then we will cast our crowns before Him and glorify Him.

YLTYLT wrote:I heard this question the other day: "If there was no mercy or grace to be saved and we were all sent to where we deserve to go, Would God still be glorified?" What do you all think?

PL wrote: Yes. God gets glory in the salvation of His people, and He gets glory out of the destruction of the wicked. That is God's purpose for everything, to glorify Himself.

YLTYLT wrote:So in this theoretical instance (where everyone went where they deserved) would this mean that people that end up in hell give God the glory. Or does it mean that God gives himself glory? Or Both?

puritan lad wrote:Actually, those who go to heaven don't "get what they deserve". We all deserve Hell. That is what is so amazing about amazing grace, that it saved a wretch like me. God gives glory to Himself in all things. That is His purpose. Those in hell will plea for His mercy, but it will fall on His deaf ears as He will laugh at theor calamity, and mock when their terror comes. Part of the glory in our salvation is knowing just what He saved us from. Then we will cast our crowns before Him and glorify Him.

Ezekiel 33:11, “Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?” KJV

God's glory does not involve pleasure in slaying the wicked in the context and manner that it first sounds. If so, it contradicts the bible. God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked then again “He that sits in the heavens shall laugh [sport, play, mock]: the Lord shall have [make sport-mock their feeble plans-expose their plans and them openly], them in derision. Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.” See below --

Psalm 2:1-12, “Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, 3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. 4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. 10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. 11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.” KJV

What Glory does God show? How great he is: How he acts in accordance to his nature and character: He is slow to anger, absolutely just — righteous — merciful — fair — all powerful, all knowing, nothing escapes his notice, etc and etc. Because God is just — the Lord displays his justice in a living manner — how?

Exodus 34:6, “The LORD passed before him and proclaimed, "The LORD, the LORD, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, 7 keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation." ESV

God gets Glory by displaying what he is like, who he is, what his character is like, displaying his nature towards his creation in a living displays that shouts out loud how great our Lord God — God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit — the undivided trinity — is!

2 Samuel 22:26-32 expresses the same theme I am trying to convey here…

2 Samuel 22:26-32, “With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful, and with the upright man thou wilt shew thyself upright.27 With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself unsavoury. 28 And the afflicted people thou wilt save: but thine eyes are upon the haughty, that thou mayest bring them down.29 For thou art my lamp, O LORD: and the LORD will lighten my darkness.30 For by thee I have run through a troop: by my God have I leaped over a wall. 31 As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all them that trust in him.32 For who is God, save the LORD? and who is a rock, save our God?” KJV

God sends forth his great Grace! Those that reject it - God will reject - fair and square.

Amen…