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A few questions for you guys...

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:23 pm
by jady
Let me first say that I apologize if I come on too strong... subtlely is not one of my strong suits. I am an agnostic (gasp!) scientist (boo!) who believes strongly in evolution (hiss!). However believe me when I say I would like nothing so much as a proof that God exists and ______ is the religion He wants you to be. Anyone? ....O.k., so I've got some questions for you guys (I think this is fair, because we scientists have to sit back and field questions from you guys all the time):

1) Why do men have nipples?
--Or an appendix?
--Or a tail as an embryo?
--Or a single tube that serves as food delivery and air supply?
--Or body hair?

2) Do you really believe that chimps and gorillas bear the same relation to humans as, say, cats or lizards?

3) How do you deal with the obvious logical problems with the Bible? i.e. that the world is flat, bats are birds, rabbits chew cud, etc.

4) Do you think that dinosaurs and people lived together? If so, why is there no mention of them in the Bible?

5) If God created everything uniquely, why did he make so many things look similar to each other?

6) When has the church (any church) ever been on the right side of a scientific argument (factually, not morally)?

7) Do creationists or ID proponents ever present any evidence to peer-reviewed journals? If so, which ones?

8) If microevolution is true, how does this not logically extend to macroevolution?

9) How old is the earth? Do you have any evidence for this?

10) How come God never re-grows limbs of amputees?

11) Would God put you out if you were on fire?

12) Is there any reason to believe in Creationism or ID other than you really, really want it to be true?

I will not talk down to you and pretend I don't have my own answers to these questions. But as a scientist, and consorting mainly with other scientists, I rarely get to hear explainations to them from the horse's mouth. Like I said I would actually love it if anybody can answer these questions effectively. Thanks.

Re: A few questions for you guys...

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:01 pm
by zoegirl
Welcome, Jady, and congratulations on your Ph D. What are you receiving it in? if you don't mind the question. I teach biology and anatomy and love to discuss these things. Thanks for being willing to discuss. Personally love science...
jady wrote:Let me first say that I apologize if I come on too strong... subtlely is not one of my strong suits. I am an agnostic (gasp!) scientist (boo!) who believes strongly in evolution (hiss!). However believe me when I say I would like nothing so much as a proof that God exists and ______ is the religion He wants you to be. Anyone? ....O.k., so I've got some questions for you guys (I think this is fair, because we scientists have to sit back and field questions from you guys all the time):

1) Why do men have nipples?
--Or an appendix?
--Or a tail as an embryo?
--Or a single tube that serves as food delivery and air supply?
--Or body hair?
Honestly don't know how to reconcile all of these (I am one who would not personally be troubled to learn that God used similar ancestry to modify pre-existing animals, He would still be in control...check out the sections here on progressive creationism). Certainly we know that all humans start in life with the default structures as females. Similar structures would be there as an embryological tool to modify those structures depending on gender. I've never been impressed with the tail argument, certainly tissue that migrates to the right position in the embryo simply shows a work in progress. (the eyes and nose start out on the sides and then migrate, do we think this means somthing from an ancestral point or simply are mark of development?).

jady wrote: 2) Do you really believe that chimps and gorillas bear the same relation to humans as, say, cats or lizards?
Again, (personally and from the bulk of what I have read of others here), whether one believes in progressive creationism or not, God would have designed the creatures that have the most similar structures with the most similar DNA. So yes, humans and chimps are much more similar in structure, whether one considers skeletal, genetic, or embryological evidence.
jady wrote: 3) How do you deal with the obvious logical problems with the Bible? i.e. that the world is flat, bats are birds, rabbits chew cud, etc.
THink you need to check out the scriptures. Scripture does not point to a flat earth (and yes, unfortunate part of the church history). But close exmaintion reveals that this is not what the scripture says. the Bible also never equates bats with birds, merely includes them as flying animals.
jady wrote: 4) Do you think that dinosaurs and people lived together? If so, why is there no mention of them in the Bible?
I personally don't, and many, many peopple here do not. Please check out the website. Rich has done a wonderful job of collecting and collating and expressing views. In short, this website support Old Earth Creationism (specifically it also addresses progressive creationsim). Some do hold that scriptures mention a sort of animal that could be a dinosaur. (The bible also doesn't include bacteria, protists, or algae, and yet we do not hold this as a position to then deny their existence :D )
jady wrote: 5) If God created everything uniquely, why did he make so many things look similar to each other?
"According to the kind" in scripture does not exclude God making them have similar DNA or similar skeletal structures or similar embryological development. Why must we exclude an artists perogative to God in making similar structures? None of us are surprised when we examine an exhibition of Monet's work or Rembrandt and seeing similarities in their work. Or listening to a music professor expound upon the themes that make Beethoven, well, Beethoven. This idea that artists and musician and engineers have signature "identifiers" is so prevalent in our thinking and yet when it comes to the creation we must deny this in God?
jady wrote: 6) When has the church (any church) ever been on the right side of a scientific argument (factually, not morally)?
The earth being flat we now know to be a GROSS misunderstanding of the scripture invovled and the age of the earth is under debate (unfortunatley, so many atheist scientists have attacked the bible that many Christians equate science with atheism and thus reject much of the science involved. I hope that your examination of the pages of this website can help you see the position. Microevolution shouldn't be in dispute and macroevolution is.
jady wrote: 7) Do creationists or ID proponents ever present any evidence to peer-reviewed journals? If so, which ones?
Now this is an unfortunate case. Even if they have, they are criticized so greatly and most of them are rejected out of hand. Maybe others here will be able to answer in greater detail. I am not able to give you an exacvt number.
jady wrote: 8) If microevolution is true, how does this not logically extend to macroevolution?
The problem in the power of mutations. Rare beneficial ones do not seem to give a clear idea of providing the impetus for selection to then act.
jady wrote: 9) How old is the earth? Do you have any evidence for this?
Already addressed this above. Most or many here are Old earther's. Check out the main website.
jady wrote: 10) How come God never re-grows limbs of amputees?

11) Would God put you out if you were on fire?

12) Is there any reason to believe in Creationism or ID other than you really, really want it to be true?

I will not talk down to you and pretend I don't have my own answers to these questions. But as a scientist, and consorting mainly with other scientists, I rarely get to hear explainations to them from the horse's mouth. Like I said I would actually love it if anybody can answer these questions effectively. Thanks.
There are some good sites addressing this arguement, I will find them and post them..... You say you don't want to talk down to us and then you pose a question that shows what you think about our arguments and thought processes. "than you really, really want it to be true?" Ummmm, gee, never thought about it before :roll: :wink: There are certainly pieces of evidence that we feel have COMPELLED us to support the God in the Bible. Like I said, check out the website.

Re: A few questions for you guys...

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:06 pm
by zoegirl
There are so many questions you have, why don't we take them one by one? It will soon become ridiculous to keep quoting over and over (at least for me :D )

I will let those who are more eloquent explain the theological questions (this is a good site for anybody with questions such as yours)

http://christianskepticism.blogspot.com ... enges.html

Re: A few questions for you guys...

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:15 pm
by Kurieuo
jady wrote:1) Why do men have nipples?
--Or an appendix?
--Or a tail as an embryo?
--Or a single tube that serves as food delivery and air supply?
--Or body hair?
Why not?
jady wrote:2) Do you really believe that chimps and gorillas bear the same relation to humans as, say, cats or lizards?
Obviously there are similarities and differences which differ in degree.
jady wrote:3) How do you deal with the obvious logical problems with the Bible? i.e. that the world is flat, bats are birds, rabbits chew cud, etc.
Forced interpretations by those who already believe the Bible to be wrong. Yet, inerrancy is not required to be Christian. Christ is.
jady wrote:4) Do you think that dinosaurs and people lived together? If so, why is there no mention of them in the Bible?
No. YECs would argue against the presumption of your second question (although I believe wrongly so).
jady wrote:5) If God created everything uniquely, why did he make so many things look similar to each other?
Why not? One designer = similar design. Same physical laws = same physical structures would be required.

Furthermore, uniquely does not have to mean abstracted from physical processes. Some Christians believe God used physical processes to uniquely create animals. For example, Swinburne uses the order found in evolution as evidence for God's existence (see "III. The Argument from the Evolution of Animals and Men" - http://www.leaderu.com/truth/3truth09.html). There is no inconsistency with believing in God or Christ, and retaining such beliefs.

I also see great diversity amongst life, so I am not sure about the premise underpinning your why question.
jady wrote:6) When has the church (any church) ever been on the right side of a scientific argument (factually, not morally)?
I see that the climate that gave rise to modern science was brought about by Christianity. Furthermore, most of the founding fathers of science were devout Christians (including Copernicus, Kepler, Galileo, Newton, Boyle, and Pascal). Refer to http://www.reasons.org/resources/apolog ... ence.shtml for more.
jady wrote:7) Do creationists or ID proponents ever present any evidence to peer-reviewed journals? If so, which ones?
http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB ... ew&id=2640
jady wrote:8) If microevolution is true, how does this not logically extend to macroevolution?
I think the burden of proof is to show that there are no boundaries microevolution runs into. Yet, I fail to see how this matters to God's existence.
jady wrote:9) How old is the earth? Do you have any evidence for this?
About 4.5 billion years. I accept the dating techniques used by scientists as authoritative.
jady wrote:10) How come God never re-grows limbs of amputees?
Why should God? I would expect a very different world if we were meant to live in a world of hedonism.
jady wrote:11) Would God put you out if you were on fire?
Maybe through a bystander or fireman who God may have planned to be there, maybe some other way. But I see no reason to believe God would necessarily put the fire on me out.
jady wrote:12) Is there any reason to believe in Creationism or ID other than you really, really want it to be true?
Is there any reason why you do not other than you don't like the idea of God?

Beliefs are justified based upon plausibility and merit of arguments, not based upon wishful thinking or range of other beliefs a person holds to. You may dismiss a belief or set of arguments because you believe the people who hold them wishfully want them to be true due to an interest in God. Such is irrelevant to whether the arguments or beliefs are actually justified or true.
jady wrote:But as a scientist, and consorting mainly with other scientists, I rarely get to hear explainations to them from the horse's mouth. Like I said I would actually love it if anybody can answer these questions effectively. Thanks.
I will just say that I see no need for science and theology (i.e., Christianity) to be inconsistent or contradictory to each other just because their focus differs. In fact, I see the two can be harmonised quite well.

Cheers.

Re: A few questions for you guys...

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:11 am
by Charles Vrike
my views:
1. progressive creation... aka old earth creation and local flood
2. lutheran

----

1.
a) I'll act like i didn't hear that...
b) There maybe a function for that who knows?
c) I've seen embros I dont remember them haveing a tail, if they did (not shure exactily) it would before in womb movement
d) you already answerd the question :)
e) warmth?

2. no relation, God created them...

3.
When the bible says the earth is flat it is eather:
a) being figuritve
b) is better translated as direction

4. no...

5. already been answered well enough

6. I do not know that much of the history of the church, there have been some people in the church that have believed in a old earth...
edit: Galeleo (spelling?) was correct in thinking that the earth revoleved around the sun (im shure he was christian), Hugh Ross, my old paster, my other old paster alll believed in old earth ect ect ect...

7. I do not pay attention to such things...

8.
a) Microevolution only causes small changes (or mutations), if they are even noticable at all.
b) Mutations majority are not benefical.
c) Mutations do not cause speciation.
b) If they (some how) did they would have to happen twice (once for each parrent).
ect. ect...

9. about 4.5 billion years old, sun lumiosity calculations, carbon-14 dating ect...

10. others may have a better answer than me

11. yes, just not super naturaly...

12.
the likly hood 200 coincedences for complex life occuring any were on the earth/universe are about 200 (and this number will probly continue to grow) is 1 out of 10^215

the big bang needs a transcendent creator

He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,
and spreads them out like a tent to live in. - isaiah 40:22
This verse sates that the universe is expanding wich for them to know would nothing less then God telling Isaiah that...

Re: A few questions for you guys...

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:25 am
by Charles Vrike
I do not think that you are comming off to strong, also its posable to believe in the Bible and macroevolution...

Re: A few questions for you guys...

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 12:16 pm
by bizzt
Charles Vrike wrote:I do not think that you are comming off to strong, also its posable to believe in the Bible and macroevolution...
Errrr... Explain yerself ;)

Re: A few questions for you guys...

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 1:50 pm
by godslanguage
Most if not all of the answers to jady's questions (in Jady's initial post) are answered very well in the godandscience.org archive. I have read most of them and they are readily available just a matter of typing in the key term in the search engine. I would imagine anyone answering Jady's question would most likely reference to those articles.

Re: A few questions for you guys...

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:43 pm
by Looking for the Truth
godslanguage wrote:Most if not all of the answers to jady's questions (in Jady's initial post) are answered very well in the godandscience.org archive. I have read most of them and they are readily available just a matter of typing in the key term in the search engine. I would imagine anyone answering Jady's question would most likely reference to those articles.
True, but maybe we can give alternate answers. :)

To Jady:

Would you mind telling us why are you so interested in Christianity/God ? What kind of proof for God you want? Mind you, we cant make God come down from the sky with a fiery chariot "Zeus-style", but there are certainly many compelling proofs of God.

Anyways, I'm waiting eargerly for your answer...

Re: A few questions for you guys...

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:00 pm
by drddunks
1) Why do men have nipples?they get to enjoy sex as well
--Or an appendix?
--Or a tail as an embryo?
--Or a single tube that serves as food delivery and air supply?
--Or body hair?
God designed them that way, why we don't always know the answer but it shows that science can't figure it out either

2) Do you really believe that chimps and gorillas bear the same relation to humans as, say, cats or lizards?
no. animals are animlas, humans are humans. they are not the same nor derive from a common ancestor

3) How do you deal with the obvious logical problems with the Bible? i.e. that the world is flat, bats are birds, rabbits chew cud, etc.
with logical and spiritual answewrs based upon legitimate theological research. a lot of the time the problem is not with the Bible but the human definitions

4) Do you think that dinosaurs and people lived together? If so, why is there no mention of them in the Bible?
they are mentioned, just the word 'dinosaur' is omited and yes, they lived together at the same time

5) If God created everything uniquely, why did he make so many things look similar to each other?
because uniqueness isn't always defined as different appearance or building materials. look at skyscrapers, office buildings, business structures, houses. they have unique design but the same building materials per se

6) When has the church (any church) ever been on the right side of a scientific argument (factually, not morally)?
one should ask, when has science been on the right side. it isn't always the fault of the church or bad interpretation

7) Do creationists or ID proponents ever present any evidence to peer-reviewed journals? If so, which ones?
there are theological journals which serve the same purpose

If microevolution is true, how does this not logically extend to macroevolution?
it would be impossible for micro evolution to be true

9) How old is the earth? Do you have any evidence for this?
the phrase 'in the beginning...' tells us we do not know when the earth was created and so we have nbo idea how old the earth is nor can we find out because the creation date is hidden from us

10) How come God never re-grows limbs of amputees?
because many people would cut off their limbs just to watch them grow back. it would be a distraction and would not allow for God to teach many lessons for us to learn

11) Would God put you out if you were on fire?
he would send someone to do it but physically that would be a miracle which might not be in God's plan

12) Is there any reason to believe in Creationism or ID other than you really, really want it to be true?
yes, because God did it and yo believe God over everything else that says differently

Re: A few questions for you guys...

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:47 pm
by David Blacklock
1. The developing embryo, whether eventually male or female, starts out with the same equipment. Testosterone starts the procedure that suppresses full breast development in males. Many people have accessary nipples in the "nipple line" which betrays their evolutionary heritage.

appendix - immunological reasons?

tail - evolutionary remnant

single tube for food and air - why not - the sewer and the playground are in the same spot.

body hair - their vanity

2. Not as close on the evolutionary bush (tree is now passe).

3. Logical problems with the Bible - It's what you would expect written by men who lived during the Bronze Age.

4. Men and dinosaurs did not live together.

5. God used evolution as his mechanism.

6. The church is capable of doing many good things, but science is not their forte.

7. Not in a straightforward fashion. It's impossible to consider them seriously scientific since their stance is to deny the possibility of finding a non-supernatural explanation for a phenomenon.

8. Yes, over enough time. Billions of years is a long, long, long, long.....long time.

9. 4.5 billion years

10. He does regrow your amputated limbs, but only if you're a newt.

11. Would he hose me down if I was on fire? Definitely! He likes me.

12. Not a good scientific reason, but plenty of emotional and personal reasons.


DB

Re: A few questions for you guys...

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:14 pm
by Himantolophus
Good questions and valid ones. I am an Old Earth/ Local Flood person but I guess you could say I was a "created evolution" person.
1) Why do men have nipples?
--Or an appendix?
--Or a tail as an embryo?
--Or a single tube that serves as food delivery and air supply?
--Or body hair?
All good questions and some good examples of vestigial structures. They have recently discovered a function for the appendix but it is no doubt highly degenerated from what it was in our ancestors.
The human body is not perfectly designed by any means. The single tube for food and air is one of them. But women also have a poorly designed pelvis for childbirth and our joints are not perfect by any means. We also have alot of useless features that are really unneeded (minimal body hair, tailbone, little toe, canine teeth) for modern man. This all points to an ancestor in which humans are directly related.
2) Do you really believe that chimps and gorillas bear the same relation to humans as, say, cats or lizards?
yes to chimps, not as much to the others. Just because we share >95% of our genetic makeup with them. It isn't that large of an evolutionary jump as it would seem and we know that there are alot of intermediate hominids between apes and men so the change was even MORE gradual. Scientists disagree on the status of Neanaderthal man as a full species or a subspecies of H. sapiens.
3) How do you deal with the obvious logical problems with the Bible? i.e. that the world is flat, bats are birds, rabbits chew cud, etc.
The Bible has flaws and this has lead to problems with interpretation. The Bible is open to such broad interpretations that it is impossible to tell what is the truth or what is made up. BUT, I don't believe it takes away from the significance of the Bible as a historical, moral, and spiritual guide, just as a science book :D
4) Do you think that dinosaurs and people lived together? If so, why is there no mention of them in the Bible?
Not at all. There are only two references to anything like a dinosaur (Behemoth and Leviathan) and the description is too vague to get an accurate ID.
5) If God created everything uniquely, why did he make so many things look similar to each other?
This is good "circumstancial" evidence for some sort of evolutionary change. One just has to look at the biodiversity of the rainforest and the ocean and this is clear.
6) When has the church (any church) ever been on the right side of a scientific argument (factually, not morally)?
many denominations of Christianity have come to terms with evolution and the Old Earth. YEC is a small minority of Christians yet they really like to draw attention to themselves.
7) Do creationists or ID proponents ever present any evidence to peer-reviewed journals? If so, which ones?
no, because they either are refuted out of hand or they approach a problem by the flawed YEC philosophy (assume the Bible is 100% true and interpret the evidence based on that premise). Therefore it is not science which looks at the evidence, then comes up with an answer based on it.
If microevolution is true, how does this not logically extend to macroevolution?
that's what I want to know! Creationists dismiss it solely because we have observed microevolution and not macro. Macro is on a scale thousands of times longer than a human's lifespan. If we couldn't observe microevolution, I'm sure they'd be against it as well.
9) How old is the earth? Do you have any evidence for this?
4.6 billion years but this is based on the oldest EXISTING rock found.
10) How come God never re-grows limbs of amputees?

11) Would God put you out if you were on fire?
these would be miracles. I guess if you are unfortunate enough to lose a limb or set yourself on fire, God is saying that you shouldn't have gotten yourself in that situation to begin with!
12) Is there any reason to believe in Creationism or ID other than you really, really want it to be true?
that's what they really want. They think that if part of the Bible isn't true, then the whole thing isn't true. They ignore the fact that a story or parable means to teach a moral lesson, and does not need to be taken at face value. I don't see God telling a story as "ruining" the Bible.

Re: A few questions for you guys...

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:22 pm
by frankbaginski
I would like to address some of the questions in your post. But of course I will discuss a different angle to the questions, one more general in nature.

We have to start with some background. God created heaven and the angels. The angels were created with free will and the knowledge of good and evil, they were created eternal. Some chose to be evil and that group is headed up by Satan. These are the fallen angels. God will judge the angels but He will do it in His own time and in His own way. Why He does things the way he does is beyond me. God then created the universe and all of the animals in it. How he did this is interesting to talk about but matters little in the big picture. He created man in His image and gave him free will. He did not give him the knowledge of good and evil but allowed man to acquire the knowledge if he chose to. This was against the rules but man took the knowledge. This created "The Fall" which is a judgement on the whole creation. Now death was part of the creation. Some fallen angels came to the earth and took on human form, came into women and had hybrids. Noah and his family were not of mixed seed so he was spared in a world wide flood to wipe out the bad seed. The bad seed had a spirit but it did not have any where to go after the flesh died. These roam the earth as demons looking to take on a host. They can enter a human in a tramatic event or if asked in. Demon posession is rare. The fallen angels know they will be judged at some point because God reveiled this to prophets. The fallen angels are trying to break the Word of God so they may escape judgement. We are the pawns in this war of spirits.

God chose Abraham and his decendants to receive His Word. Rules were established (works) that you had to obey. No one can keep all of the rules so a sacrafice of blood had to be made to atone for your sins. This offering is to acknowledge God and ask for forgiveness. This was also an alusion to the ulitmate sacrafice made by God Himself (Christ)who took on the sins of the world. Before Christ you would be judged by works but after Christ you would be judged by faith. After Christ a helper (The Holy Spirit) was placed on the earth and all who asked received the Spirit and it would reside in them. By faith in Christ and asking Him for forgiveness your sins can be washed away. We have been told that we are to wait for His second coming and spread His Word. We are to be righteous Christians and be an example to others.

With this in mind most of the questions are details of the creation which we can guess at but are of little matter. The important thing is to recognize that we are spiritual creatures who happen to be in flesh for a short while. While we are here we are to do His work and recognize that He created us. At the same time we have temptation all around us. If we become a creature of the flesh then we do not nurture our spirit and we are lost. At the same time evil influences from the spirit world can directly communicate with your spirit and if you listen you will be drawn to evil. The Bible gives pretty clear instructions on how we are supposed to behave on this earth. Exactly how God will judge people I don't know. But I do know I have a spirit and I do try and stay on the right path.

As for ID and YEC (young earth creationist) it is nice to talk about but a Christian's faith should not be related to any of this.

Re: A few questions for you guys...

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:30 pm
by johnt
Excellant Frank, very well put, short and sweet and to the point. Our time in the flesh is like a snap of the fingers. The point is for thousands of years we are told of what will happen and the scriptures justify that position. Jesus takes it to the climax. Only through Him and with our acceptance will we get to G-d. He being G-d in the flesh I'll take those odds any day. End of story, nothing to justify nor think about.

Jady, Just remember the choice you make is yours and yours alone. You can accept Jesus and be scientific too. Good luck to you and may G-d Bless.

Re: A few questions for you guys...

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:32 am
by JCSx2
1) Why do men have nipples? For sexual pleasure?

--Or an appendix?Here is a good link on a possible purpose for an appendix http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/10/05/ap ... index.html
--Or a tail as an embryo?

Try to reconfigure the fetal development system without this "tail thing, I be the scientists will come up with a dead fetus. God made it work this way and it works just fine

--Or a single tube that serves as food delivery and air supply?

seems to simply successful system, people would have made many it difficult and probably with a logistical system that would fail more often than not. (Assuming people could do that)

--Or body hair?

so we could have metrosexual jokes?

2) Do you really believe that chimps and gorillas bear the same relation to humans as, say, cats or lizards?

no, animals are animals always have been, people have always been people, now if macroevolution could be proven without a shred of doubt then I will rethink it. But I am confidant that macroevolution is a no-go even if micro evolution is possible. (It is that darn faith thing again

3) How do you deal with the obvious logical problems with the Bible? i.e. that the world is flat, bats are birds, rabbits chew cud, etc.

There were answers above for the "bats question I will show there are bible passages in favor of a round earth A literal translation of Job 26:10 is "He described a circle upon the face of the waters, until the day and night come to an end." A spherical earth is also described in Isaiah 40:21-22 - "the circle of the earth."

Proverbs 8:27 also suggests a round earth by use of the word circle (e.g., New King James Bible and New American Standard Bible). If you are overlooking the ocean, the horizon appears as a circle. This circle on the horizon is described in Job 26:10. The circle on the face of the waters is one of the proofs that the Greeks used for a spherical earth. Yet here it is recorded in Job, ages before the Greeks discovered it. Job 26:10 indicates that where light terminates, darkness begins. This suggests day and night on a spherical globe.

Some Bible critics have claimed that Revelation 7:1 assumes a flat earth since the verse refers to angels standing at the "four corners" of the earth. Actually, the reference is to the cardinal directions: north, south, east, and west. Similar terminology is often used today when we speak of the sun's rising and setting, even though the earth, not the sun, is doing the moving. Bible writers used the "language of appearance," just as people always have. Without it, the intended message would be awkward at best and probably not understood clearly.


4) Do you think that dinosaurs and people lived together? If so, why is there no mention of them in the Bible?

Dinosaurs are mentioned here
Job 40:15-24
15 “Look now at the behemoth, which I made along with you;
He eats grass like an ox.
16 See now, his strength is in his hips,
And his power is in his stomach muscles.
17 He moves his tail like a cedar;
The sinews of his thighs are tightly knit.
18 His bones are like beams of bronze,
His ribs like bars of iron.
19 He is the first of the ways of God;
Only He who made him can bring near His sword.
20 Surely the mountains yield food for him,
And all the beasts of the field play there.
21 He lies under the lotus trees,
In a covert of reeds and marsh.
22 The lotus trees cover him with their shade;
The willows by the brook surround him.
23 Indeed the river may rage,
Yet he is not disturbed;
He is confident, though the Jordan gushes into his mouth,
24 Though he takes it in his eyes,
Or one pierces his nose with a snare.


5) If God created everything uniquely, why did he make so many things look similar to each other?

artists of our day do the same thing. Different paintings by the same artist have a similar look, Different statues by the same artist have a similar look; it is the style of the artist.

6) When has the church (any church) ever been on the right side of a scientific argument (factually, not morally)?

Pope Pius XII declared his approval in 1951 of a brand new cosmological theory—the Big Bang.

7) Do creationists or ID proponents ever present any evidence to peer-reviewed journals? If so, which ones?

ask someone else this question, I am not a scientist or doctor who would be involved with peer review journals

8) If microevolution is true, how does this not logically extend to macroevolution?

it can logically be assumed but has not been proven yet. (if it has please show me, also see answer #2) Science is Christian like due to faith in an idea.

9) How old is the earth? Do you have any evidence for this?
pretty darn old older than 6000 years old

10) How come God never re-grows limbs of amputees?
why should he? Why do people feel because God is all powerful then he should do OBVIOUS miracles on a daily basis? God wants faith (yes another thing taught in the Bible)faith requires faith not constant proof of miracles everyday

11) Would God put you out if you were on fire?
he may have someone else do it, but I wouldn't count on Him doing it himself. Do not tempt the Lord

12) Is there any reason to believe in Creationism or ID other than you really, really want it to be true?
I could ask the same question about Evolution. It has a lot of possibilities that scientists assume should be correct, but nothing linking link after link after link showing an obvious trail of Evolution. If a scientists finds a new creature never before seen, they make a new branch or squeeze it in some place that is comfortable for their logical scientific mind.