Evidence for God from Science

This should be an easy one for you guys to field, but it drives me crazy. If there is one true God, who wants us all to be with Him in heaven, why isn't it obvious A) That he exists B) who he is C) what he wants us to do? this is not a question of free will, mind you. I don't wonder why God doesn't drive us around like robots. Also please do not tell me that it IS obvious. Clearly it is not, seeing as how there is no single religion, or single denomination of one religion, or even rudimentary agreement on what God wants (for example, a few threads down there is a discussion of if the old testament still applies. A whole half of the bible that some people want to throw out!!!). Furthermore, it seems to me that if God does exist, and actually does have some preference for what we do, he must be trying conciously to look like he doesn't (evolution, disease, war, general human strife). Keep in mind that all God would have to do to prove his existence is appear in fiery glory to everyone on earth and say "look, you don't HAVE to, but I'd really like it if you'd stop doing _________"

Perhaps you have the erroneous view that God is about rules...

"look, you don't HAVE to, but I'd really like it if you'd stop doing _________"

Why not have God say, "here is what I would like you to DO....."? But in fact He has done so in the scriptures. Why does God not reveal Himself to the world in dramatic fashion? Because He has already done so with His son Jesus Christ and now it is up to you:

1 Chronicles 28:9 If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

Psalm 119:2 Blessed are they who keep his statutes and seek him with all their heart.

Acts 17:27 God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

jady wrote:This should be an easy one for you guys to field, but it drives me crazy. If there is one true God, who wants us all to be with Him in heaven, why isn't it obvious A) That he exists B) who he is C) what he wants us to do? this is not a question of free will, mind you. I don't wonder why God doesn't drive us around like robots. Also please do not tell me that it IS obvious. Clearly it is not, seeing as how there is no single religion, or single denomination of one religion, or even rudimentary agreement on what God wants (for example, a few threads down there is a discussion of if the old testament still applies. A whole half of the bible that some people want to throw out!!!). Furthermore, it seems to me that if God does exist, and actually does have some preference for what we do, he must be trying conciously to look like he doesn't (evolution, disease, war, general human strife). Keep in mind that all God would have to do to prove his existence is appear in fiery glory to everyone on earth and say "look, you don't HAVE to, but I'd really like it if you'd stop doing _________"

The thing is is that it is about freewill whether you like it or not. If God showed himself in all his glory then we would be forced to beleive and worship and that would not be a perfect relationship. When we seek God our attitude is already on the right path for a good relationship. We dont want a relationship with things that are thrust upon us or that we dont want to find. God respects us too much. Remember that even when God shows himself not everyone beleives. God lived with the Israelites after the Exodus and they still abandoned him.

I would not say God is not obvious for it is obvious to me both rationally and experientially that He exists (I'm allow to have my opinion too!). Certainly God does not take centre stage and force His existence onto us. Yet, would we prefer God to be self-centred and make the world revolve purely around Himself? Love is about self-sacrifice and giving, so if God is loving, perhaps he does not want to take the centre stage for attention here. Perhaps God would much prefer to stand in the background to give us all the opportunity to love and be in relationship with each other rather than Him alone? It certainly seems we have been designed to be dependent upon relationships with others.

Do you remember those cool 3-D pictures that allowed you to see a picture but only if you looked in a certain way? The first time I looked at one it took me 20 minutes. With practice, though, I could see them within 30 seconds. That first time I had all my friends around me chiding me when I couldn't find the picture. "It's obvious!" "It's right there!"

Was it true? Sure, is it obvious to me now? Yep.

To us it is absolutely obvious that God exists and that He exists in a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. But He will not show HImself according to our whims and fancy. (and as others have pointed out wuite well, He has show himself already)

"And you will seek me, You will find me when you search for me with all of your heart" Jeremiah 29:13

zoegirl wrote:Do you remember those cool 3-D pictures that allowed you to see a picture but only if you looked in a certain way? The first time I looked at one it took me 20 minutes. With practice, though, I could see them within 30 seconds. That first time I had all my friends around me chiding me when I couldn't find the picture. "It's obvious!" "It's right there!"

Was it true? Sure, is it obvious to me now? Yep.

To us it is absolutely obvious that God exists and that He exists in a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. But He will not show HImself according to our whims and fancy. (and as others have pointed out wuite well, He has show himself already)

"And you will seek me, You will find me when you search for me with all of your heart" Jeremiah 29:13

I like the 3D picture analogy. I remember friends thinking it was some kind of game I was playing with them.

I think it important for Christians to realise the same happens with God. We may have experiences, and also see the evidence around us so clearly, yet other people are just going to have a hard time believing us for they do not see it. It seems our perception for seeing God clearly, or not seeing Him, is based upon our perceptions being properly aligned. Like in the "Amazing Grace" song where it is sung "I once was lost, but now I'm found. Was blind, but now I see." This is not an argument against disbelief, but rather I am simply offering an explanation from a Christian framework for why God can seem so obvious to some, but not to others.